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Southern Drivers Safe to Operate Doors
occy
Yesterday, 05:42
According to Rail inspectors report southern drivers are safe to
Operate the doors with slight improvements on cameras and mirrors.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.sta...?client=safari
juliancarswell
Yesterday, 07:12
A few years ago in Liverpool a conductor was sent to prison for a breach of H&S after signalling a driver that it was clear to go after a drunken teenager stood on the platform kept leaning on the carriage every time they started to move off. This had gone on for several minutes and she leant back on it whenever he signalled to go. In the end he tried to time it as she stepped back and let the train move off. She leant back on the train and thanks size of the gap she fell between the platform and train and was killed. the train only moved a few feet but it was enough.
It would be interesting to see how a lone driver, possibly six carriages away, could cope with this. Its Nothing to do with safety and all to do with profit. Lets be honest, this is only the next step on the road to getting rid of the drivers.
mooghead
Yesterday, 07:19
Wow, I hope the moron didn't breed before she killed herself. Feel for the conductor.
muggins14
Yesterday, 08:49
Originally Posted by juliancarswell:
“A few years ago in Liverpool a conductor was sent to prison for a breach of H&S after signalling a driver that it was clear to go after a drunken teenager stood on the platform kept leaning on the carriage every time they started to move off. This had gone on for several minutes and she leant back on it whenever he signalled to go. In the end he tried to time it as she stepped back and let the train move off. She leant back on the train and thanks size of the gap she fell between the platform and train and was killed. the train only moved a few feet but it was enough.
It would be interesting to see how a lone driver, possibly six carriages away, could cope with this. Its Nothing to do with safety and all to do with profit. Lets be honest, this is only the next step on the road to getting rid of the drivers.”

Having watched quite a few of those 'real life hero' compilation videos on YouTube, it seems people fall onto train lines a lot!

You're right though, it is all about money. Reduce staff costs, increase passenger fares.
Andrue
Yesterday, 09:43
Chiltern trains haven't needed a guard to watch the doors for years. Passengers just walk up, press a button and get on. The doors close automatically after a while or - I assume - the train driver can do it from their cab if they have to. It always surprised me that Virgin Trains have someone who steps out onto the platform to watch. It's basically the same system. Sliding doors that open with a button press.

Another case of union 'jobs for the boys', perhaps?
SaturnV
Yesterday, 09:49
Originally Posted by mooghead:
“Wow, I hope the moron didn't breed before she killed herself. Feel for the conductor.”

Seriously, no need. Have a word with yourself or better still read about the incident and who was prosecuted for it and then have a word with yourself.
grumpyscot
Yesterday, 10:19
I don't see the problem with drivers opening the doors. I've seen it with conductors doing it and the train has waited for 3 to 4 minutes while he tries to get to a control box to open the doors. Passengers get ruffled and annoyed. The driver is far better placed especially to keep trains on time. A warning bleeper always sounds before the doors close, so I don't see the problem except, perhaps, on an extremely curved platform where visibility is reduced, but this is known in advance and precautionary measures are taken.

I think the strike is a waste of time, and the strikers should be grateful they have a pretty well paid job with hardly any responsibility.
Doctor_Wibble
Yesterday, 10:33
On the other hand the union bloke said

"You will notice that Ian Prosser, HM Chief Inspector of Railways, is careful to qualify his remarks and say “with suitable equipment, proper procedures, and competent staff in place” it can be a method of working. And, indeed, Ian goes on to say that the ORR has made a long list of recommendations for further improvements because they fear it is not safe. Those recommendations, the company concedes, are not yet in place."

So it's possible but only if various people get their act together and make sure at least one or two stations have staff along the way, functioning ticket machines, unblocked cameras etc.

On the other hand it might simply be sensible for a train with 10 or 12 carriages to have a second member of staff so there's presumably a line to be drawn somewhere?
Brendan Mulcaky
Yesterday, 10:39
Originally Posted by Andrue:
“Chiltern trains haven't needed a guard to watch the doors for years. Passengers just walk up, press a button and get on. The doors close automatically after a while or - I assume - the train driver can do it from their cab if they have to. It always surprised me that Virgin Trains have someone who steps out onto the platform to watch. It's basically the same system. Sliding doors that open with a button press.

Another case of union 'jobs for the boys', perhaps?”

No. Chiltern have guards from Banbury onwards northbound. They also have a person on the train as a kind of assistant.
The media keep harping on about 'who closes the doors'. It's a much bigger picture than that & an issue the unions should've picked up on & corrected.
We're talking safety here. Yours & mine. Southern (& Great Western. Their strikes will be next) are saying there'll be no job losses etc etc. But there will. They'll muscle this in & then scrap the proposed on board manager job. Who's going to help a blind or disabled person on & off? Who going to stop drunks? What about when there are football matches & the trains are swamped with idiots who insist on pulling the communication cord? (It happens. A lot!) What about a jam packed platform, on a curve at 5pm?

That aside, the guard has a specific job in case of emergency. If the driver is incapacitated the guard has to 'protect the line' by placing detonators first at a mile & a quarter from the train. This is very important in the event of a derailment where 'his' train is no longer showing as occupying the line. The next train will simply plough into the wreckage. The driver goes forward to protect & the guard goes back. Who looks after the passengers while he's gone? Or if there isn't a guard & the driver is dead who looks after them then? They panic, jump out then get run over or electrocuted.

There's more & more I could add, but this will do for now.
Croctacus
Yesterday, 10:44
The trouble with the bosses at these rail companies is that they are business men, not railway men. Their bottom line is money, not safety. The guards have always been responsible for train safety, which is more than just door closing, and should continue to do so.
Mark39London
Yesterday, 10:47
Originally Posted by Croctacus:
“The trouble with the bosses at these rail companies is that they are business men, not railway men. Their bottom line is money, not safety. The guards have always been responsible for train safety, which is more than just door closing, and should continue to do so.”

Except on the significant number of services that don't have them and haven't had them for years.
Dotheboyshall
Yesterday, 12:02
The report says that it's safe IF various upgrades are made. Therefore it must mean it's unsafe for drivers on those routes to do so currently.
Andrue
Yesterday, 12:16
Originally Posted by Brendan Mulcaky:
“No. Chiltern have guards from Banbury onwards northbound. They also have a person on the train as a kind of assistant.”

They might have been on the train but I never saw them step onto the platform. I commuted from Banbury to Birmingham for 14 months and the only guards I saw stepping onto the platform were those of Virgin Trains. There was another line that uses B'ham Snow Hill (green livery is all I remember) and they didn't have anyone watching the platform either.

Maybe it was a length thing? Most of the trains I used only had three or four carriages. The longer Chiltern trains were used to get people to/from London. And the Virgin trains were longer because they were national.

But I do take your point about safety and, yes, Chiltern also had ticket inspectors.
SaturnV
Yesterday, 12:35
I've been on the Docklands Light Railway and those trains dont even have drivers. Do they have guards on board or dispatchers on the platforms?
Harvey_Specter
Yesterday, 12:44
I wonder why it's called a light railway.
Doctor_Wibble
Yesterday, 12:45
Originally Posted by SaturnV:
“I've been on the Docklands Light Railway and those trains dont even have drivers. Do they have guards on board or dispatchers on the platforms?”

Fair point but that's a modern system all the way through - smaller, the trains are shorter, the platforms are all(?) straight, the monitoring etc is all fully wired in and it was in the design right from the start, rather than a prehistoric one retrofitted for steam and later for diesel and in some places they even have that newfangled elec trickly thing.

Along those lines, anyway. Our problem is we didn't have an excuse (or funding) to rebuild the whole thing from scratch.
Brendan Mulcaky
Yesterday, 13:08
Originally Posted by Doctor_Wibble:
“Fair point but that's a modern system all the way through - smaller, the trains are shorter, the platforms are all(?) straight, the monitoring etc is all fully wired in and it was in the design right from the start, rather than a prehistoric one retrofitted for steam and later for diesel and in some places they even have that newfangled elec trickly thing.

Along those lines, anyway. Our problem is we didn't have an excuse (or funding) to rebuild the whole thing from scratch.”

Exactly. The main line railway has so many variables that it'd be almost impossible to make it fully automated. Rip it up & start again would work, but that would take many years & be cost prohibitive.
The tube COULD possibly go Auto but even that would have its problems
Brendan Mulcaky
Yesterday, 13:10
Originally Posted by Andrue:
“They might have been on the train but I never saw them step onto the platform. I commuted from Banbury to Birmingham for 14 months and the only guards I saw stepping onto the platform were those of Virgin Trains. There was another line that uses B'ham Snow Hill (green livery is all I remember) and they didn't have anyone watching the platform either.

Maybe it was a length thing? Most of the trains I used only had three or four carriages. The longer Chiltern trains were used to get people to/from London. And the Virgin trains were longer because they were national.

But I do take your point about safety and, yes, Chiltern also had ticket inspectors.”

I'm surprised. I've seen the Chiltern guards dispatching many times.
malpasc
Yesterday, 13:10
Originally Posted by SaturnV:
“I've been on the Docklands Light Railway and those trains dont even have drivers. Do they have guards on board or dispatchers on the platforms?”

The DLR is a different kettle of fish to mainline heavy rail. The DLR's network doesn't mix with anyone else's, its all relatively new (first section opened in 1987 I believe) and was designed as one system so stations etc are of a standard design and layout. On a system like that it is much easier to be driverless and guardless, although there is always a member of staff on board who can take over the control of the train should there be a problem.
vinba
Yesterday, 14:38
You do know that Southern is paid to run the franchise by the government? Any ticket revenue goes to the government..If they just ran 1 train a day that was driven by a monkey they'd still get paid by the government.. Any delay repay would be footed by.... us the tax payer.
Southern are an appalling company and this is just about cutting costs so they can make a bigger profit out of the amount they are paid to run the franchise.
Perhaps if there had been a guard aboard the train I was on the other day we could have been told that it had been cancelled before it left at a station because of a fault with the PA system..
Andrue
Yesterday, 15:24
Originally Posted by Brendan Mulcaky:
“I'm surprised. I've seen the Chiltern guards dispatching many times.”

Maybe I just wasn't paying attention. I tended to just board, sit down and pull out my Kindle. At journey's end I'd be out of my seat and out of the station like a whippet up a drain-pipe. Especially when I got back to Banbury
Brendan Mulcaky
Yesterday, 16:01
Originally Posted by vinba:
“You do know that Southern is paid to run the franchise by the government? Any ticket revenue goes to the government..If they just ran 1 train a day that was driven by a monkey they'd still get paid by the government.. Any delay repay would be footed by.... us the tax payer.
Southern are an appalling company and this is just about cutting costs so they can make a bigger profit out of the amount they are paid to run the franchise.
Perhaps if there had been a guard aboard the train I was on the other day we could have been told that it had been cancelled before it left at a station because of a fault with the PA system..”

Another valid point.
Guards have multi roles onboard. Proof that it's not just 'jobs for the boys' as someone said.
CravenHaven
Yesterday, 18:21
Originally Posted by grumpyscot:
“I think the strike is a waste of time, and the strikers should be grateful they have a pretty well paid job with hardly any responsibility.”

you must be joking, did you not see a post somewhere up the page where a guard was imprisoned for giving the green light when some fool was trying to lean on the train for the upteenth time.
I would like to imagine that the drivers could usually monitor things when there are only four carriages, but I just know train companies would end up playing games and schedule short trains to cut cost this way, leaving punters waiting on the platform for an available seat on the next train.
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