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Are Vodafone feeding me bullshit?
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joe_m
24-05-2005
I recently got a contract phone with Vodafone and setup a Direct Debit

However, being a scruffy student with horrific debts i'm not sure that the money will be in my account each month.

I have decided to cancel the Direct Debit and pay in the bank with cash and scrounge off my mum.

I phoned Vodafone to cancel the Direct Debit and the bloke said I had to wait 3 months for the account to 'settle down', I informed him the letter about the DD stated i could cancel at anytime but he said that was incorrect.

Whats going on?

Cheers
Nick555
24-05-2005
You may find that a direct debit agreement was a condition of contract. You signed the agreement & the direct debit, now you've changed your mind.

It's important how long ago your signed, what the salesman told you & how you paid a deposit - if any. Maybe you can get back with the info. It's important that you ensure that your bill is paid on time.
joe_m
24-05-2005
it says on the direct debit agreement that i cam free to cancel at anytime
ishan
24-05-2005
When you were credit checked by Vodafone you told them that you wished to settle your bill by direct debit each month. This became one of the factors that they used to credit check you and make a decision.

Vodafone's acceptance of you as a customer *may* have been on the basis that your bills are settled by DD. As you had indicated this as your method of payment, the person who sold you the phone *may* have neglected to inform you of this on the basis that s/he felt it to be unimportant.

The bottom line is that if they have accepted you on the basis of a DD, they will either want a security deposit in lieu of the DD or compel you to continue with DD as your method of payment.

The alternative, if you are within the applicable time limit, is to return the phone and seek an alternative provider.
Benuk73
24-05-2005
Try and put the amount aside each week/month into another bank account like a savings a/c
joe_m
24-05-2005
I CANCELLED IT

knew that last bloke didn't have an igloo so now im paying by cash in my bank

thanks for the adivce peeps, keep it up!!!
munta
24-05-2005
Originally Posted by joe_m:
“I CANCELLED IT

knew that last bloke didn't have an igloo so now im paying by cash in my bank

thanks for the adivce peeps, keep it up!!!”

You have to do more than cancel it with your bank.

VERY IMPORTANT - Vodafone will keep issuing a request to your bank for the money. If it is not paid, Vodafone will be with in their rights to charge an admin fee for a rejected charge and they most probably will. The next month, they will do the same and so on. They won't cancel their request just because you have cancelled the Direct debit.

But they are within their rights to do so based upon the Direct Debit garentee.
joe_m
24-05-2005
Originally Posted by munta:
“You have to do more than cancel it with your bank.

VERY IMPORTANT - Vodafone will keep issuing a request to your bank for the money. If it is not paid, Vodafone will be with in their rights to charge an admin fee for a rejected charge and they most probably will. The next month, they will do the same and so on. They won't cancel their request just because you have cancelled the Direct debit.

But they are within their rights to do so based upon the Direct Debit garentee.”

i cancelled through Vodafone customer services, bloke on the phone said he had changed my billing method on my account to 'cash or cheque' so i shouldn't have a problem

i'm scared
munta
24-05-2005
Originally Posted by joe_m:
“i cancelled through Vodafone customer services, bloke on the phone said he had changed my billing method on my account to 'cash or cheque' so i shouldn't have a problem

i'm scared”

No thats fine. If you canceled it with them the have to do as you asked. Its just those that cancel via the bank that can have problems.

Don't worry
joe_m
24-05-2005
Originally Posted by munta:
“No thats fine. If you canceled it with them the have to do as you asked. Its just those that cancel via the bank that can have problems.

Don't worry ”

oh ok, cheers

my arse was goin for a bit there
localhost
24-05-2005
Does it cost more not paying by DD? Last time I looked, there was a 3 quid something (per month) surcharge on non DD payments
munta
24-05-2005
Originally Posted by localhost:
“Does it cost more not paying by DD? Last time I looked, there was a 3 quid something (per month) surcharge on non DD payments ”

£3.53 I believe.
Quackers
25-05-2005
I do not pay by DD. God fed up with the odd DD bouncing and bank charging me £32!!!! Would rather pay the £3 a month....
Aye Up
25-05-2005
Originally Posted by munta:
“You have to do more than cancel it with your bank.

VERY IMPORTANT - Vodafone will keep issuing a request to your bank for the money. If it is not paid, Vodafone will be with in their rights to charge an admin fee for a rejected charge and they most probably will. The next month, they will do the same and so on. They won't cancel their request just because you have cancelled the Direct debit.

But they are within their rights to do so based upon the Direct Debit garentee.”

Bollox to that!

Quote:
“The Guarantee
If the amounts to be paid by Direct Debit or the payment dates change, the organisation collecting the payment will notify you normally 10 working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed.

If an error is made by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid.

If any payment is made in error, you should contact your bank or building society who are responsible for giving you a full and immediate refund - even if the original error was made by the organisation collecting the payment.

Direct Debit is one of the safest ways of paying your bills. Fraud rarely occurs because organisations using the Direct Debit Scheme go through a careful vetting process before they're authorised, and are closely monitored by the banking industry. But if money were to be taken from your account fraudulently you'd be protected by the Direct Debit Guarantee, and would be entitled to an immediate refund from your bank or building society.

Don't forget, you can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by contacting your bank or building society. We also recommend you notify the organisation concerned. ”


Direct from the website at www.directdebit.co.uk

A company can only charge an admin fee if a direct debit fails, they cannot apply for a DD if their is no agreement existing or if in this case it has been cancelled. With this in mind, what vodafone will charge for however like most companies is a non direct debit payment surcharge.

For the record, so those who know and i do work for the financial services industry, when a DD is cancelled a bank can no longer apply for payment. Since that agreement is cancelled and no further charges for admin processing can be applied in most normal cases. however is a direct debit mandate exists and there is not enough money in the sponsored account and it gets rejected then an admin fee is then charged by the bank and company collecting it.
munta
25-05-2005
Originally Posted by The Rock DJ:
“Bollox to that!




Direct from the website at www.directdebit.co.uk

A company can only charge an admin fee if a direct debit fails, they cannot apply for a DD if their is no agreement existing or if in this case it has been cancelled. With this in mind, what vodafone will charge for however like most companies is a non direct debit payment surcharge.

For the record, so those who know and i do work for the financial services industry, when a DD is cancelled a bank can no longer apply for payment. Since that agreement is cancelled and no further charges for admin processing can be applied in most normal cases. however is a direct debit mandate exists and there is not enough money in the sponsored account and it gets rejected then an admin fee is then charged by the bank and company collecting it.”

Sorry but not bollox. If you cancel a DD at the banks end, the company collecting the DD are not breaking the agreement that you entered into with themselves. They cannot force the bank to pay the money because that would be in breach of the DD guarentee. However, the contract with Vodafone to take the payments by DD needs to be renegotiated with Voda them selves. You cannot rely unpon the bank to renegotiate a contract and how payment is made on your behalf. Therefore you could be in breach of contract with Vodafone hence the charge.
Voda try to take the case and the request is refused by the bank. Therefore Voda are not paid and the account is in arrears.

From the same website you quoted from

Quote:
“Your bank or building society can make the cancellation up to and including the due date, but try not to leave it until the last minute or you run the risk of a payment being made. Remember that cancelling the Direct Debit simply stops paying the organisation. If you carry on receiving the goods or service then you will have to organise an alternative payment method.”

If the alternative method is not arranged with Voda, the brach of contract arrises and therfore any admin fees that they see fit.
Benuk73
25-05-2005
Originally Posted by munta:
“You have to do more than cancel it with your bank.

VERY IMPORTANT - Vodafone will keep issuing a request to your bank for the money. If it is not paid, Vodafone will be with in their rights to charge an admin fee for a rejected charge and they most probably will. The next month, they will do the same and so on. They won't cancel their request just because you have cancelled the Direct debit.

But they are within their rights to do so based upon the Direct Debit garentee.”

The Bank will automatically notify Vodafone of its cancellation, not sure if they will keep presenting for payment once they know its been cancelled from the Bank.
munta
25-05-2005
Originally Posted by Benuk73:
“The Bank will automatically notify Vodafone of its cancellation, not sure if they will keep presenting for payment once they know its been cancelled from the Bank.”

Whether the bank notify Vodafone or not is not the issue. The issue is that as far as Vodafone would be concerned, the person had changed the contract with out notifying them. Contract law means that a contract can not be varied by one side with out informing the other. Because the contract change has not been approved by Vodafone, they are entitled to continue assuming the contract is still in force and therefore may continue to request the money from the bank.

See my post above about rearranging payment.

The direct debit gareentee prevents banks and companies from taking money without your agreement but it does not allow any customer to make onesided variations to a contract.
joe_m
25-05-2005
Originally Posted by Quackers:
“I do not pay by DD. God fed up with the odd DD bouncing and bank charging me £32!!!! Would rather pay the £3 a month....”

same here mate

rather pay the extra £3 a month than paying the bank charge
dawson
25-05-2005
Originally Posted by Benuk73:
“The Bank will automatically notify Vodafone of its cancellation, not sure if they will keep presenting for payment once they know its been cancelled from the Bank.”

The bank will only notify Vodafone of the DD cancellation when Vodafone attempt to collect on the cancelled mandate, not before. The notification will be by way of a 'Return Code' which will probably be '1'.

Does anyone believe that the Vodafone payment collection guys will know what '1' means, other than seeing that payment has been refused?
munta
26-05-2005
Something worth remembering

Originally Posted by The Guardian:
“Direct debits on credit cards are not protected. Despite what Barclaycard suggests, credit card companies cannot stop debits, not even on a card account that is 'closed'. It is up to the trader to cancel their request." So, if you must issue direct debits on your credit card, make sure you know which card they are on and that the trader you are contracting with is a nice chap”

.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1492150,00.html
dawson
26-05-2005
Originally Posted by munta:
“Something worth remembering

.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1492150,00.html”

Whilst the sentiments of the Guardian report are correct, it should be noted that you cannot set up a Direct Debit with a credit card account.

It is called a Continuous Authority Transaction Instruction (CATI) often also called a 'continuous authority', a 'continuous payment', or a 'recurring authority/payment'
munta
27-05-2005
Originally Posted by dawson:
“Whilst the sentiments of the Guardian report are correct, it should be noted that you cannot set up a Direct Debit with a credit card account.

It is called a Continuous Authority Transaction Instruction (CATI) often also called a 'continuous authority', a 'continuous payment', or a 'recurring authority/payment' ”

I'm sure thats of some comfort to those who have direct debits set up with their credit card.
Benuk73
27-05-2005
Originally Posted by munta:
“Whether the bank notify Vodafone or not is not the issue. The issue is that as far as Vodafone would be concerned, the person had changed the contract with out notifying them. Contract law means that a contract can not be varied by one side with out informing the other. Because the contract change has not been approved by Vodafone, they are entitled to continue assuming the contract is still in force and therefore may continue to request the money from the bank.

See my post above about rearranging payment.

The direct debit gareentee prevents banks and companies from taking money without your agreement but it does not allow any customer to make onesided variations to a contract.”

If there is no dd in place vodafone will look silly if they keep re-presenting
Peej Kerton
27-05-2005
Originally Posted by munta:
“I'm sure thats of some comfort to those who have direct debits set up with their credit card. ”

You cannot set up a direct debit with a credit card!
munta
27-05-2005
Originally Posted by Peej Kerton:
“You cannot set up a direct debit with a credit card!”

If thats the case, I'm sorry for getting it wrong. I was just going on what the Guardian said.

and this

http://www.ntlhell.co.uk/forums/inde...showtopic=4331

and yhis

http://www.despatch.co.uk/magazine/aug02/da_news5.htm

and this

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/showthread.php?p=123244
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