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I don't like this "unlucky HM thing" - smacks of bullying
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Cornchips
29-05-2005
I had been prepared to have an open mind with regard to this, however, the way BB is picking on Makosi it is very unfair. It was alright at first, given that there was an upside to it in that she could save herself from potential eviction (if only by being the most hated HM in there) but now its just downright mean.

If it swaps around on a weekly basis then that's fine, but if she is stuck with this for the rest of her time there then she will definitely pick up the sympathy vote.
lancey_999
29-05-2005
It would have happened to whoever went in the Diary room. If Lesley or Maxwell went in there no-one would feel sorry for them...so...
Cornchips
29-05-2005
Originally Posted by lancey_999:
“It would have happened to whoever went in the Diary room. If Lesley or Maxwell went in there no-one would feel sorry for them...so...”

I would have. It singles them out for special horrible treatment - to me that's not right.
melodytoon
29-05-2005
But how can it be bullying, when she can simply refuse to obey BB? The punishment for telling the HMs of her task is being up for possible eviction, not immediate expulsion from the house. She could simply tell the HMs what she's been doing & why, apologise if anyone's been offended by her & say she's not going to do it any more because she'd rather be friends with them than enemies. That would have got her praise & sympathy from both the HMs & the public. Instead, she's choosing to go along with it.
However, I do think that the pressure must be getting to her even if she's not showing it - what started out as a bit of fun that she was also enjoying being a part of must be getting harder to accomplish without making firm enemies in the process.

In her position, I'd do it for 2 days maximum and then gather the HMs & tell them the task.
pelicano
29-05-2005
I don't like it either. It's not about being 'unlucky' at all - it's being picked on. Plus I think everyone will get very bored of it.
sonicshadow
29-05-2005
I dont think its bullying. I think its a good idea.
Cornchips
29-05-2005
Its not the potential eviction thing that's the bullying. Yesterday her key didn't work and she was given a whole bunch of keys and told by BB that if she didn't manage to get her suitcase open, then she would be evicted from the house.

Today she is expected to wash aprons to win booze for the house - I know she should have kept this one to herself, not done it and not told anyone, but if they continue to put her into these difficult positions then there is the possiblity that she will crack under the pressure.
melodytoon
29-05-2005
I think BB will be amazed if Makosi keeps it going to the nominations. I don't think they'll repeat it with anyone else as it will be too obvious - they've started to get to know each other now, so as soon as someone starts acting out of character, people will think they've been told to do it & will ignore it.
sonicshadow
29-05-2005
Originally Posted by pelicano:
“I don't like it either. It's not about being 'unlucky' at all - it's being picked on. Plus I think everyone will get very bored of it. ”

I think the should only do it for a couple of weeks
sonicshadow
29-05-2005
Originally Posted by Cornchips:
“Its not the potential eviction thing that's the bullying. Yesterday her key didn't work and she was given a whole bunch of keys and told by BB that if she didn't manage to get her suitcase open, then she would be evicted from the house.

Today she is expected to wash aprons to win booze for the house - I know she should have kept this one to herself, not done it and not told anyone, but if they continue to put her into these difficult positions then there is the possiblity that she will crack under the pressure.”

I think thats funny. Its not really bullying because its not like someones got to give her a do in if she doesnt do it.
jojo the joyful
29-05-2005
Its not too bad so far, although I don't like the idea.

So long as she is allowed to explain away her behaviour afterwards & hence given a chance to wipe the slate clean.
And as long as she edited fairly on TV, I mean who knows what is her being naturally bratty or how much is put on to get noms.....

It could also work in a plus way, giving a HM a chance to show that they can laugh at them selves.
Cornchips
29-05-2005
Originally Posted by sonicshadow:
“I think thats funny. Its not really bullying because its not like someones got to give her a do in if she doesnt do it.”

Its abuse of power. Bullying doesn't have to be about physically violent outcomes - its often more psychological than that.
melodytoon
29-05-2005
Originally Posted by Cornchips:
“Today she is expected to wash aprons to win booze for the house - I know she should have kept this one to herself, not done it and not told anyone, but if they continue to put her into these difficult positions then there is the possiblity that she will crack under the pressure.”

But the solution was right there - don't tell anyone & just ignore BB completely. The difficult position she was in wasn't because of the task itself, but because she spoke about it - it was inevitable then that the HMs would put pressure on her to do it. She created her own predicament. She unfortunately seems to be one of those people that doesn't think clearly through the repercussions of something before following the instruction, & doesn't think of an alternative way of effecting non-compliance either.
Areece
29-05-2005
I think bullying is at the heart of Big Brother and pretty much every other reality show, it's why a lot of people watch, to see struggle between a dominant force and a weaker one.
Cornchips
29-05-2005
Originally Posted by jojo the joyful:
“Its not too bad so far, although I don't like the idea.

So long as she is allowed to explain away her behaviour afterwards & hence given a chance to wipe the slate clean.
And as long as she edited fairly on TV, I mean who knows what is her being naturally bratty or how much is put on to get noms.....

It could also work in a plus way, giving a HM a chance to show that they can laugh at them selves.”

Yes, good points there and I am still willing to wait and see what happens. For me though its about how long this continues. Press info beforehand suggested that it would be for the whole series (or for however long the unlucky HM stayed in). That would worry me.
StewartF
29-05-2005
She can easily walk away and not do what BB wants. She can tell the rest of the housemates as well. They could protest etc...

I'm sure once she goes BB will pick some one else and do all sorts of other tricks. I don't think they will go as far as something worse than the bedsit, I think that BB will just carry on with small tricks like they are doing and maybe a few things slightly worse.
Opaque
29-05-2005
It's being well done, it's not like they are depriving her of anything, in fact the HM's are getting more and more because of it!
It's probably the best way they can do it.
melodytoon
29-05-2005
Originally Posted by jojo the joyful:
“Its not too bad so far, although I don't like the idea.

So long as she is allowed to explain away her behaviour afterwards & hence given a chance to wipe the slate clean.
And as long as she edited fairly on TV, I mean who knows what is her being naturally bratty or how much is put on to get noms.....

It could also work in a plus way, giving a HM a chance to show that they can laugh at them selves.”

True. I hope BB helps Makosi to deal with explaining what she's been doing - if she makes it to the end of the task (& I wouldn't), maybe they'll show clips of people's reactions but with a sort of Benny Hill backing to inject some humour into it. The real unfairness to Makosi would be if they just left her to get on with explaining it all herself.
without_reason
29-05-2005
"Bullying (verb): use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants"

It could be argued that the entire premise of big brother is to put a group of people into a position where they are being bullied - ie. BB manipulates the group through its superior knowledge of the situation, through having power over them (rewards,evictions ,environment, etc.).

However they *choose* to be placed in this position and see if they come out on top.

So given this basic premise is there a line BB should not cross (physical abuse? psychological abuse?) or is all fair within the rules of broadcasting?
AlbertSeen
29-05-2005
BB is all about bullying. This task is just less subtle than usual and Makosi is very likeable, which makes it more difficult to enjoy her suffering.
Hogs Head
29-05-2005
So what - this is what it is going to be like until she is actually evicted? She is the unlucky 13th housemate for her whole stay?

So does this mean she has to keep on getting the most nominations to stay in the house?

If so, that is shit! Its unfair really.
Cornchips
29-05-2005
Originally Posted by without_reason:
“"Bullying (verb): use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants"

It could be argued that the entire premise of big brother is to put a group of people into a position where they are being bullied - ie. BB manipulates the group through its superior knowledge of the situation, through having power over them (rewards,evictions ,environment, etc.).

However they *choose* to be placed in this position and see if they come out on top.

So given this basic premise is there a line BB should not cross (physical abuse? psychological abuse?) or is all fair within the rules of broadcasting?”

Oooh good question. I think with me its about "fairness". I know its an "unfair" situation, and I know the whole premise of BB is to manipulate the HMs using the power that the HMs give to BB. However, in the past BB has always taken a stance where everyone is dealt with reasonably "fairly" and its just a matter of who within a group can come out best given the same set of circumstances. However, for me this year, this picking on one individual is a step too far, in that its about BB treating one of the differently (and not in a nice way) to try and manipulate the outcome.

I take everyone's point with regard to how Makosi should handle this - but she doesn't seem to be able to think of that. And that is what bullying is about. Usually if you stand up to a bully they will go away. If you don't then it will just get worse for you - so is it therefore your fault that you are bullied? Is it Makosi's fault because she can't seem to think of a way out of this?
madwumin
29-05-2005
When big brother said in BB3 (I think!) that thy were going back to basics then they should have done so - meaning that they should have gone back to they rules and regulations they set in BB1 where they had no input on deciding who should be up for nomination. All they did in BB1 was to set tasks. There was no fiddling and fixing as in previous BB's and now poor Makosi is at the brunt of it all.

Will BB make her life hell for her entire stay in the house and will the viewers and housemates kick her out because of her provoked responses after BB's meddling?

THE CHOICE IS YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
madwumin
29-05-2005
or should i correct myself and say -

THE DECISION IS YOURS!!!!!!!!!!
sonicshadow
29-05-2005
I dont feel bad for makosi - she will sell her story of her bad experience and make a nice sum of money
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