This is very true. For Leslie EVERYTHING is now about Sam

Every conversation it turned into somthing about sam. this afternoon a conversation about the shortage of chicken nuggets turned into Leslie having a go a sam.

On Tuesday nominations turned into Leslie shouting across the sofa's at Sam, who had not said ANYTHING to her. during all that period. Snipey or otherwise.

That comment was nothing to do with BB, I was responding to someone who thought I should change my chosen profession.
When it comes to something as superficial as BB there is no right or wrong, it's just opinions.

There is a term I use, 'reverse bullying' where someone makes themself appear the victim in order to accuse another of being the agressor.

I can see where Mrs Miggins is coming from, I've seen this sort of self victimisation in action, however it usually begins when the supposed victim is jealous of the person they accuse of the agression.

If Sam had done this from day one, then I would have to agree that she was the one at fault.

As it is Lesley was the one with the jealousy from day one. Her jealousy was harnessed by Craig, at first, and then Derek, both for their own reasons. Lesley has been urged on by those around her to keep up her verbal victimisation of Sam.

If Sam was truly playing the victim she would have been in tears a lot more, she would've sought solace from those around her and expressed her fear of Lesley on as many occasions as possible.

As it is, Sam has barked back at Lesely, whilst keeping away from her as much as possible. Someone trying to make themselves out to be a victim would normally put themselves in the line of fire as often as possible to get the sympathy of others around them.

Sam may have a lot of faults, problems even, but on this occasion it's my opinion that Lesley and cohorts have bullied her.

I'd guess that the stuff in the press has probably emerged precisely because of what's happened in the house. It's now relevant because the issue of bullying in Big Brother (whatever your take on events is) is a 'hot topic'.

I don't think she's playing the victim particularly either. I think because Sam is fairly quiet it's very easy to 'interpret' her in various ways that will suit any argument - for example, a sideways glance can be interpreted as immensely bitchy, or as emotionally hurt, it just depends on what you see, (or what you want to see).

I must admit - I've read/heard an awful lot about Sam being 'snide' or 'sly' but I've never yet seen anything that proves this - what has she actually said/done to deserve the reputation? I've not seen much of th elive feed and there's certainly been nothing shown on the highlight shows. Has she actually come out with nasty comments/snide remarks about other hms (I mean unprovoked ones)?

Your wrong, you responded in the following way earlier in the thread when discussing wether or not Sams postition as a victim is genuine


Another cynically emotive reference you felt would shore up your argument. You then laboured these references when challenged further.

Elevating your self to the level of expert in by telling us "FYI I am blah blah"

Doing this in order to be able to label other opinions as "stupid" and over-exaggerating", in your postition as a professional counsellor (in training), and rape crisis volunteer.

A position you subsequently relinquished by saying " theres no right or wrong,its all just opinions" when challenged.

If you were secure in the foundation of your arguments, you would not have felt the need to agrandise yourself in such a manner when so many people did not agree with you.

If BB is superficial and its all just opinions why do you feel the need to tell us about your work with rape victims and so forth in order to be able to call the opposing points of view "stupid" ?

Again i call foul. Shame on you

..and your still wrong, it is bullying

Hear, hear.

Mrs Miggins cynical housemates like yourself are the reason she isn't getting on.

You're wrong there - it's Vanessa that has bought her time by messing up nominations. If nominations had gone ahead normally it would be Sam vs Derek and she would have been out like a shot.

Well she says "shut up" and "fu*king b**ch" quite a bit when she is insulted or picked on, does that count?

Most of the comments refered to by the housemates are along the lines of "Sam said somthing about you" But no-one ever seems to know what that "somthing" is.

As far as pulling back the covers of the bed and going out and telling people that Lesleh looked disgusting that was a fabrication created by everyone's favorite housemate Craig.

In order to allow Team Britney to step the campain up a gear so to speak.

Fair comment.

A convenient fabrication too as Lesley had been saying for several days that Sam had a rashy fanny..

Nope!


exactly.

I just don't get what she's done to be so disliked. I'm not a 'Sam fan', or a 'Lesley hater', but I can see a damn site more justification for calling Lesley a bitch then I can for calling Sam one at the moment. As far as I can see Sam's only crime has been to be quiet and bit boring to watch.

mrs muggins, you know nothing. Until you experiance what it is like to be bullied then shut it. If you do, then shame on you.

I like the way you miss out important bits to attempt to validate your argument. I only mentioned my job because someone asked me if I would treat rape victims with the same lack of sympathy. Obviously if you did the work I do you would feel the need to retaliate. I think it is stupid to compare Sam's situation to that of a rape victim, or even use it in the same sentence.
BB is a game show, nothing more or less, it's not supposed to teach us morals or standards, hopefully we have them already, that is why I said there is no right or wrong I watch it for entertainment and escapism, so please get off my back, I'm only expressing my opinions.

The reason this turned into another go at Sam is that the HMs are expecting to receive more food if they pass the task - which they are desperate to get as they have barely anything left anyway- as Sam was jeopardising the task by not wearing her gown properly (or at all when she fancied a dip) or her splint allegedly for medical reasons this equated to less food for everyone in Lesley's mind I suppose. I didn't see who it was but someone pinched a couple of chicken nuggets from Craig's plate when he went to get a drink which meant he ended up with only 3 - this could also be construed as a fail in the task as from what I thought were the rules of the task for his "condition" he is supposed to be "eating for two".

What, do you mean like the fabrication that certain FM's created on this very forum earlier saying that Lesley just said she would kick the effin sh** out of Sam if they weren't in the house, when she actually said she wouldn't get on with Sam outside of the house.?

No. You also mentioned it in the context of placing yourself in the position of an expert and then stepping down from that lofty position after you had labelled other peoples opinions as stupid and overreacting.


There is nothing obvious about it. How could you possibly predict what I would "feel the need to do" in any situation, Just because I happened to be in the same line of work as you? Again with the references to your work.

I think its time you climbed down from the cross.


I would contend that there is a right and wrong, Lesleh's behavior is wrong.

Bullying somone on a gameshow does not mean that morally suspect behavior should be condoned.

Sam has not gone through the pain that a rape victim deals with. However i dont see why her experience should be dismissed as not a big deal, just because its not as serious or anywhere near the same league as being raped.

I think what most people disagree with you about, is that you seem to be playing down the bullying, because other people have to go through worse experiences.

This does not make any sense at all.

Good point.
It was Ant who nicked Craig's chicken nuggets, and Sam has broken plenty of rules on this task and when someone, like Roberto or Science tries to talk to her about it her attitude is awful, she responds with 'shut up' and then breaks another rule blatantly. Her 'medical condition' about wearing the splint is that it is uncomfortable, or in other words it doesn't look good. She used the same thing the other night saying she had medication in her makeup bag but really it was her lip gloss.

So do I, or are you 'having us on' about the job.

Well I watch quite a bit of live feed and I don't understand the reputation either. Sam has been fairly quiet apart from the odd giggle, it's just plain old fashioned jealously.

I'm not going to respond to the 1st part of your post because I can't be bothered, nothing I haven't said already, but if people feel like I am condoning bullying in any way then I am sorry that I may have come across like that. I don't think that any abuse should be trivialised, and I would never condone bullying but I really don't believe that Sam is suffering any great abuse, no more than most adults have to deal with at points in their lives, Sam is handling it.
I really think that some people are making a huge deal of this, maybe I am a hard cow because of the things I have witnessed, but I don't think Sam is a real victim.

Wrong again. Your dislike for Sam washes over this thread like a bitter tide.

Leslie was talking to Vanessa in the bedroom after shouting at Sam as she went into the diary room.

Her word to Vanessa was " if i wasnt in her i would have cracked her one, it would have made my feel physically better to crack her one"

I watched this on the live stream as it happened. It was also shown on the primetime show But for some reason you still claim that it didnt happen...

It seems to be pretty obvious that you dislike Sam, and your refusal to accept that Lesley threatened her, is a symptom of this.

As is your attempts to play down how genuinley spitefull the bullying was

As is your theory about Sams two plans ( A and B ) which you now seem to have completley fogrotten about in order to complain that she took her leg cast off during a task. (which if you read the WHATM) thread for the time, you will discover she had permission to do.)

Excellent debating technique there Mrs Miggins.



Its actually a bigger deal to lots of people that some think that its "ok" and thats not directed at you specifically but moreso the posters who claim " well Sam is a spitefull snotty cow". Then dont really have any proper reasoning why Lesleh has directed so MUCH animosity towards her.

I think that the fact that she was visibly annoyed at the size of Saskia's boobs on opening night might give us a clue to the REAL reason Lesleh has such a problem with pretty girls.

One more thing, given your level of expertise in this area, I'm surprised that you refer to the Makeup hiding incident as just Sam whining over lipgloss.

As a professional I'm sure you will be aware that was just the manifiestation of Sams misery. Its not really the value or importance of the specific item stolen, but the fact that a large group of peole you are trapped in a house with, have been habitually trying to make you miserable and unhappy.
Sam cried over her lipgloss, but it was her CIRCUMSTANCES and lack of support withing the group , that was responsible for her misery.

(at that time both Max and Ant, had been made to belive the bag was "lost" and not stolen, this is a classic bullying technique where the victim is made to look like a unreasonable crybaby, by a group sticking with the same story)

Could be game over methinks.

Lesleh and Craig have just 'made up' with Sam. Of course it wasn't their fault, other people have caused most of this.

Sam has been gracious and eager to be accepted. Typical of a bulllying victim, she wants it over with as soon as possible.

If she were playing the victim, she would want it to go on for as long as possible.

I did not know your profession and I think you'll find that the point of my post was not in any way directed towards such. The pertinent point was:-


I added the comment about other victims as extreme examples of the exact same principal and I maintain that my point is valid.



The only fabrication in that sentence is the one that you are deluded enough to believe. I have personally heard Lesleys threats of physical violence and mental abuse with my own ears. This has happened on many occasions and it began on the first night in the house.

They did occur and you can delude yourself as much as you like but it does not change the truth of the matter.