That would be my interpretation of events too.



and typical of Lesleh to claim it was "the others" what others?

Is she still un-aware that this is all on camera. tsk!

Vanessa and Lesley's conversation happened before, I didn't see it so will have to take your word for it. I was talking about today, when she was talking to Craig if you read my post properly.
Good observation that I don't like Sam, I think she offers nothing to the house and shouldn't be there.
My plan AB theory is still there, but am just responding to peoples posts, if that involves talking about Sam taking her cast off then so be it. The 1st time she took it off she didn't have permission, and caused a fail, then she made up the medical condition.
BTW, I read the WHATM thread every day.

However the threat exists. Does the presence of violent threats still mean Sam is not a victim?


I hope you never take a similar dislike to anyone you have to counsell. Your dislike of her has caused you to have completley mis-read this whole situation.


Its been shot down in flames by just about everyone who has posted on this thread.

That would all depend on if you feel sorry for a bunch of wannabes who are going to forget about it much more quickly than you are as soon as they leave the house and are concentrating on their new careers. I save my compassion for people who really need it. BB is entertainment, I'm sick to death of all this bully victim talk, and people taking the moral high ground to boost their ego. It's a show and some people want to make it into a lesson in life. Get real.

In my post (#53), I outlined some of the reasons why I disagreed with your 'Sam making herself a victim' theory.

As Lesleh and Craig have backpedalled and Sam has graciously accepted their apology, I think your theory is now blown out of the water.

Someone who makes themselves a victim would want to carry it on, would show fear and anguish when confronted by thier supposed bullies and not let them off the hook lightly.

Bullies, on the other hand, when confronted by those around them, often back pedal and apologise.

Also if there was nothing for them to apologise for why would they?

Craig and Lesleh outlined all the treatment they had dished out to Sam and came up with (what they thought) plausable reasons for that behaviour, typical bully defence.

Not all, mostly you. Is it any wonder why this forum is very one sided against Lesley? People are afraid to say what they think because they may get a tirade of abuse similar to what I have experienced. It's easy to jump on the band wagon but should you offer an alternative viewpoint then expect a load of s*** back. Is that fair?
If Lesley isn't voted out on Friday and you are wondering why because no one spoke up for her on here you will know why. People don't stand up to bullies as a rule, and this forum is no different. Lucky I don't give a s***

Good post!

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I've argued against you, without being personal or abusive.

You haven't replied to my posts (which is you perogative of course), and a bandwagon jumper I am not.

I haven't watched any of the action this evening, I'm not on my computer (no broadband!) or by a t.v. I'm glad they have made up and I'm sure Max's talk to Lesley earlier has made that happen. It goes to show Lesley can be shown the error of her ways.

My theory was just that, a theory. As we know so little about Sam we tend to draw our own conclusions. I am happy to admit I was wrong, but I enjoyed the discussion, I didn't expect it to get so heated, but that's BB for you.

Who do we hate now?

Ok, you are joking now? Sam has not experienced bullying..but YOU have recived a "triade of abuse"

Welcome to team Britney...you will fit right in there.


Most people disagree with you, Its prefectly fair if that is thier opinions. I have been in the minority myself in these frorums in certian discussions. It wasnt unfair, it was just the way it is.


So this forum is full of bullies ? and you have been bullied into not being able to give your opinion?

But you have started a whole thread about your opinion, and now you are claiming that you werent allowed to speak up for Lesley, because you were not able to convince the majority of your argument?

If only you were as sensitive to Sams isolation in the house as you are to your opinions minority status in this thread

Oh the irony...

I think it was more to do with the offical warning from the production team about threatening behavior that did it.

It seems that Leslie can only be showed the error of her ways under threat of being asked to leave out the back door....

EDIT: For your reference http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/n...ory.jsp?id=285

Sorry, I read them but got a bit side tracked by mc doughtywhatever his/her name is, I've been typing all day!
That is what this forum is for, to express your opinion without getting personal. We will never all agree but everyone should be able to say what they want and have a bit of healthy debate. You haven't offended me at all

I keep telling myself to just ignore you but I can't let a blatant disregard of the facts go. I didn't say I had been bullied into not giving my opinion, I think I have shown that I will say what I think, what I actually said is people may be put off giving their opinion if it goes against the grain. An example is in the message to Lesley thread this morning. Disgusting things were posted, not about her behavior but about her weight, looks, it was pure spite. I said that it was horrible what people were saying and then a few people came out of the woodwork and agreed, some Pm'd me to say they were disgusted.
This whole thread has not just been about my opinion, a lot of it has been yours. I haven't claimed I am not allowed to speak up, I just said you have insults if you do (from certain people, not all)

I agree entirely with Mrs Miggins.

Sam has played a truly magnificent game & has succeeded.

Thankyou, it's about time someone agreed with me

I have no doubt Sam is playing a game, not particulary good though is it when still most people want her out....just AFTER lesley.

As for lesley shes just a horrible vile creature.

People can defend her all they like on here. I have seen with my own two eyes what she is like(not just the highlights show so dont blame bad editing).

She IS a bully. Sensed weakness in same and tried to use that to her advantage by being very vocal about her in front of everyone else to make her fell good.

Well I dont like Sam but Lesley is one of the vilest housemates ever on the programme. I am usually an advocate of keeping the ones that cause conflict in whether I like them or not but I reallydo have to vote her out I cannot stand to look at her or further her career in any way.

Well I just watched the C4 show and saw Roberto in his role of Matron trying to tell Sam quite politely that she had to wear her splint and walk with crutches or they would incur a fail on the task- her reply to him was along the lines of "Don't tell me what to do, it's not a fail - just Shut Up and F*** Off". She then went straight to the DR and said she didn't like anyone because they were all bullying her. When asked who was bullying her she said Roberto - now if that isn't playing the victim I don't know what is.

I have been watching a lot of the live streaming as I have to spend a lot of time in bed due a chronic back problem.
what people seem to forget is that even the live stream is edited - hence it's about 20 mins behind. As Lesley is a lot louder her comments to Sam obviously draw more attention whereas Sam just makes snide comments and with all the sound dips it's easy to say Lesley started it.
From seeing the way Sam responded to Roberto I would have thought she can easily give what she gets so maybe Lesley was telling the truth about Sam making remarks first ?

Also people have posted that Craig made up the comments Sam made about lifting up the covers and seeing something disgusting but it's true - I heard her say it on the live stream to HMs who were in the kitchen - she actually used the word vile though not disgusting.
Nobody asked her to lift up the covers to see what was going on did they - she just did it to bring the attention back on herself.

But..... I still don't get this. How do we know Sam is making snide comments?

Well I certainly heard her in the kitchen commenting about seeing something vile in the bedroom (i.e. when Lesley and Vanessa were having their mock lesbian romp and she lifted up the covers) which got reported back to Lesley and started her off again - hence makeupbaggate.
The live streaming is edited after all - unless they showed all 12 housemates in split screen without sound dips no-one can say for definite she hasn't made such comments.

Mary commented that she'd heard Sam being snide and nasty when she was asked about the Lesley vs. Sam situation on BBLB the other day and stuck up for Lesley - since she was actually in the house that shows that maybe they haven't been showing Sam's bad side as much ?

The menacing looks she gives people don't exactly endear her to them either.

BTW has Sam now implemented plan C by doing her streak inthe garden with Makosi or is that part of plan A ?

[quote=Jaz]Well I just watched the C4 show and saw Roberto in his role of Matron trying to tell Sam quite politely that she had to wear her splint and walk with crutches or they would incur a fail on the task- her reply to him was along the lines of "Don't tell me what to do, it's not a fail - just Shut Up and F*** Off". She then went straight to the DR and said she didn't like anyone because they were all bullying her. When asked who was bullying her she said Roberto - now if that isn't playing the victim I don't know what is.[quote]



Yes, good point. I wonder though if she found it easier to *stand up to* Roberto because she knows he's unpopular in the group and so wouldn't have many people rushing to his defence. She may have been hoping this would make her more popular too, as he's another outsider and she wanted to emphasise that she feels the same way about him as the rest of the group.

I think you are right because Saskia gave her a compliment and she half ignored her, and had a look on her face like your next. Sam can't be trusted out.

How do you know she isn't? You're just taking the live feed as gospel, which as we all know is a very short-sighted thing to do.

I don't know she isn't. I never said I did. I'm certainly not taking the live feed as gospel - as I've already said on this thread I haven't watched it.

My original point was that a lot of things are being said about Sam, and yet there doesn't seem to be much evidence (from the live feed, from thehighlight show, or even really from what the other hms say) to back it up.