did anybody see where his hands were? that might settle the argument
Homophobia and Dr Who
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Originally Posted by flynn:
“Having just read this thread, JFB has a point. phelings - you haven't come across well. If I'm honest JFB hasn't either, but at least he's backed his points up a bit. You just sound bigoted to me. You don't care what other people think - fine, but in that case don't moan when they have a pop back. Oh, I'm very straight btw. I just don't think what other people get up to in their private lives is any of my business. If someone (male or female) wants to indulge in a bit of botty fun then that's up to them.
Oh - and personally, I saw the CJ/Doctor and CJ/Rose kisses simply as someone saying goodbye to the people he loves (family, as a f'rinstance), why read more into it than that?”
“Having just read this thread, JFB has a point. phelings - you haven't come across well. If I'm honest JFB hasn't either, but at least he's backed his points up a bit. You just sound bigoted to me. You don't care what other people think - fine, but in that case don't moan when they have a pop back. Oh, I'm very straight btw. I just don't think what other people get up to in their private lives is any of my business. If someone (male or female) wants to indulge in a bit of botty fun then that's up to them.
Oh - and personally, I saw the CJ/Doctor and CJ/Rose kisses simply as someone saying goodbye to the people he loves (family, as a f'rinstance), why read more into it than that?”
Cheers Flynn, I seldom do but hey, having a straight man telling me I backed up my points on a thread about homophobia somehow lessens the pain
Agree with you on the kiss though
Originally Posted by JohnFlawbod:
“No it was CJ demonstrating that in the year 5000, this kind thread won't exist because no one will care...by then, someone on this planet will have had kids with a tree”
“No it was CJ demonstrating that in the year 5000, this kind thread won't exist because no one will care...by then, someone on this planet will have had kids with a tree
”
I agree. 40 years ago would we have had out gay TV personalities? Ya know we have come pretty far and loosened up a bit. And Captain Jack is from the year 5000. At the end of the day that's all it is. I personally didn't find it repulsive or out of place at all. It was just an admirable goodbye to the two people who saved his life.
40 years ago Gays were locked up.
Now they are hosting prime teatime chatshows and taking over the rest of the schedule at times.
Whats for them to complain about?
Now they are hosting prime teatime chatshows and taking over the rest of the schedule at times.
Whats for them to complain about?
Originally Posted by phelings:
“40 years ago Gays were locked up.
Now they are hosting prime teatime chatshows and taking over the rest of the schedule at times.
Whats for them to complain about?”
“40 years ago Gays were locked up.
Now they are hosting prime teatime chatshows and taking over the rest of the schedule at times.
Whats for them to complain about?”
People like you, perhaps...
As a gay man, i found that the kiss was a very important scene. It showed that its ok to kiss another man. no ho-ha, just goodbye.
I was expecting the papers to be full of it-corrupting the children etc, but no. nothing. not a sausage. Quite right to.
This whole thread was about the way a different place had gone on a crusade almost to cure us poor sick gay people.
WE ARENT SICK. It you substitute the word gay with black, jew, muslim then it would be breaking the law.
For the personal attack on JFB from phelings was completly ou of order. If you dont like us, fine thats your perogotive. Personally i find heterosexual sex disgusting and horrid, but I dont want to cure them.
Live and let live-thats all we want. now lets get back to the what the thread was ment to be about
I was expecting the papers to be full of it-corrupting the children etc, but no. nothing. not a sausage. Quite right to.
This whole thread was about the way a different place had gone on a crusade almost to cure us poor sick gay people.
WE ARENT SICK. It you substitute the word gay with black, jew, muslim then it would be breaking the law.
For the personal attack on JFB from phelings was completly ou of order. If you dont like us, fine thats your perogotive. Personally i find heterosexual sex disgusting and horrid, but I dont want to cure them.
Live and let live-thats all we want. now lets get back to the what the thread was ment to be about
does anybody know what DW 'canon' has to say about sexuality in timelords? I read somewhere that the doctor has "no libido"
Originally Posted by phelings:
“40 years ago Gays were locked up.
Now they are hosting prime teatime chatshows and taking over the rest of the schedule at times.
Whats for them to complain about?”
“40 years ago Gays were locked up.
Now they are hosting prime teatime chatshows and taking over the rest of the schedule at times.
Whats for them to complain about?”
tha fact that we have second class legal rights,such as no next of kin rights to our partners ,no legal protection from sackings, homophobia etc I could go on
but THIS IS NOT THE PLACE for this discussion
Originally Posted by phelings:
“40 years ago Gays were locked up.
Now they are hosting prime teatime chatshows and taking over the rest of the schedule at times.
Whats for them to complain about?”
“40 years ago Gays were locked up.
Now they are hosting prime teatime chatshows and taking over the rest of the schedule at times.
Whats for them to complain about?”
Perhaps being typed about as if we were in some way undeserving of life? Hunny, the entertainment industry has always been replete with gay men...oddly enough, so has the hierarchy of the Church of England, Parliament, the Royal Family, The Royal Household, the City, the catering industry and apparently my local cab firm...this notion of "taking over" is a nonsense and the more programmes like Doctor Who that present concepts of love and compassion, irrespective of gender, race or species as nothing out of the ordinary there are, the better the future will be...
Originally Posted by salochin:
“tha fact that we have second class legal rights,such as no next of kin rights to our partners ,no legal protection from sackings, homophobia etc I could go on
but THIS IS NOT THE PLACE for this discussion”
“tha fact that we have second class legal rights,such as no next of kin rights to our partners ,no legal protection from sackings, homophobia etc I could go on
but THIS IS NOT THE PLACE for this discussion”
The thread is entitled Doctor Who and Homophobia - I think it is exactly the place for it
Originally Posted by JohnFlawbod:
“and the more programmes like Doctor Who that present concepts of love and compassion, irrespective of gender, race or species as nothing out of the ordinary there are, the better the future will be...”
“and the more programmes like Doctor Who that present concepts of love and compassion, irrespective of gender, race or species as nothing out of the ordinary there are, the better the future will be...”
... And a big "here, here" from me. (Female, citizen of the world, early 40s).
Originally Posted by JohnFlawbod:
“The thread is entitled Doctor Who and Homophobia - I think it is exactly the place for it”
“The thread is entitled Doctor Who and Homophobia - I think it is exactly the place for it”
I agree 100 % with you, my point was that this discussion has gone away from DR WHO and homophobia to homophobia in general.
Phelings attacks became more personal against you indvidualy and then by association against me, but with less and less of an argument(not that he had a huge argument to start with)
The forum should be to discuss not to attack
I have found these forums to be friendly, accepting and understanding, untill tonight
Originally Posted by chrisfass:
“does anybody know what DW 'canon' has to say about sexuality in timelords? I read somewhere that the doctor has "no libido"”
“does anybody know what DW 'canon' has to say about sexuality in timelords? I read somewhere that the doctor has "no libido"”
I'm not sure the concept has ever been explored to be honest although oddly, in the novelisation of Star Trek: The Motion Picture there is a lengthy section devoted to the possible gay relationship that was perceived between Kirk and Spock by those around them...from Kirk's perspective, it's an interesting read for the time, apparently had Spock heard any of these rumours he would simpy have raised a quizzical eyebrow at the notion
My parting note for tonight...
'Kin YES! Sorry to quote out of context, but IMO that's the most important thing
Originally Posted by JohnFlawbod:
“concepts of love and compassion, irrespective of gender, race or species as nothing out of the ordinary”
“concepts of love and compassion, irrespective of gender, race or species as nothing out of the ordinary”
'Kin YES! Sorry to quote out of context, but IMO that's the most important thing
Originally Posted by salochin:
“I agree 100 % with you, my point was that this discussion has gone away from DR WHO and homophobia to homophobia in general.
Phelings attacks became more personal against you indvidualy and then by association against me, but with less and less of an argument(not that he had a huge argument to start with)
The forum should be to discuss not to attack
I have found these forums to be friendly, accepting and understanding, untill tonight”
“I agree 100 % with you, my point was that this discussion has gone away from DR WHO and homophobia to homophobia in general.
Phelings attacks became more personal against you indvidualy and then by association against me, but with less and less of an argument(not that he had a huge argument to start with)
The forum should be to discuss not to attack
I have found these forums to be friendly, accepting and understanding, untill tonight”
True. But then I was baiting him and he knew that so in part it's my fault if that happened - as for attacks, I don't think any have been worthy of the term...in either direction but the thread does raise legitimate questions and given some of the off-point rubbish doing the rounds on some threads on ds then if this one stays within the parameters and stays relatively civilised then I don't see it as a problem but am open to correction...
...I thank you for your support though, I shall however endeavour to be more circumspect in my responses to people in future
Originally Posted by flynn:
“My parting note for tonight...
'Kin YES! Sorry to quote out of context, but IMO that's the most important thing”
“My parting note for tonight...
'Kin YES! Sorry to quote out of context, but IMO that's the most important thing
”
If you leave with a
flynn, quote me out of context anytime matey
Originally Posted by JohnFlawbod:
“True. But then I was baiting him and he knew that so in part it's my fault if that happened - as for attacks, I don't think any have been worthy of the term...in either direction but the thread does raise legitimate questions and given some of the off-point rubbish doing the rounds on some threads on ds then if this one stays within the parameters and stays relatively civilised then I don't see it as a problem but am open to correction...
...I thank you for your support though, I shall however endeavour to be more circumspect in my responses to people in future”
“True. But then I was baiting him and he knew that so in part it's my fault if that happened - as for attacks, I don't think any have been worthy of the term...in either direction but the thread does raise legitimate questions and given some of the off-point rubbish doing the rounds on some threads on ds then if this one stays within the parameters and stays relatively civilised then I don't see it as a problem but am open to correction...
...I thank you for your support though, I shall however endeavour to be more circumspect in my responses to people in future
”
I have no issue with your responses to him, i agree with everything you said, in fact the posts by phelings just prooves how far there is to go, and how much some people still have no idea about this issue.
Im sure that if the same were said to phelings about his race, hair colour or whatever, he would be up in arms.
If the contributors to the thread are happy to see it continue in this vein, then so be it. I will give as good as phelings and his merry band can thow at me
Originally Posted by JohnFlawbod:
“I'd say describing a sexual act in itself on a sci fi forum was odd...”
“I'd say describing a sexual act in itself on a sci fi forum was odd...”
Quite the norm here I'd say!
I didn't know what "docking" was til I read it on a Dr. Who thread! And believe me, I didn't want to know! Had to read a couple of posts past it to confirm it wasn't going to appear in a later episode!
Originally Posted by JohnFlawbod:
“Hmmm, except that pretend straight men are actually as unhygienic as real straight men, smell slightly worse... blah blah”
“Hmmm, except that pretend straight men are actually as unhygienic as real straight men, smell slightly worse... blah blah”
Eh? You and your rambling generalisations. Don't want to dwell on the unhygienic differences of straight and gay ways of doing things, fella, but I'll have you know my balls are minty fresh! As it the rest of me. For I bathe in Colgate... well, no, I don't, but you get the picture.
As for the CJ kiss - let's not fool ourselves - we know why it was included. Would've preferred a shaking of hands, or a hug, or some witty manly banter about Mazdas, but what the hell - who cares? Captain Jack is Captain Jack. We always knew he'd get that kiss in, but to be fair, we were given sufficient coded warning, with the fact that his make-up and eyelashes became more and more outrageous as the series progressed.
Perhaps for those who took umbrage to the kiss, the Beeb can release a special Homophobe option on the DVD where perhaps instead of the kiss, they sit down and play "Medal Of Honor" for a couple of hours?
Originally Posted by Yoonix:
“ Captain Jack is Captain Jack. We always knew he'd get that kiss in, but to be fair, we were given sufficient coded warning, with the fact that his make-up and eyelashes became more and more outrageous as the series progressed.”
“ Captain Jack is Captain Jack. We always knew he'd get that kiss in, but to be fair, we were given sufficient coded warning, with the fact that his make-up and eyelashes became more and more outrageous as the series progressed.”
Now Yoonix...I would have thought that someone as obviously versed in the ways of the world would know the difference between a bisexual man and a transvestite even if only because they'd watched Rocky Horror as a teenager...shame on you...I'm very disappointed
Originally Posted by JohnFlawbod:
“Now Yoonix...I would have thought that someone as obviously versed in the ways of the world would know the difference between a bisexual man and a transvestite”
“Now Yoonix...I would have thought that someone as obviously versed in the ways of the world would know the difference between a bisexual man and a transvestite”
And the twain never meets?
Originally Posted by Yoonix:
“And the twain never meets?”
“And the twain never meets?”
they are completely different!!
Transvestisi wotsit, has no link to Homosexuality!
Yes you get Drag Queens (which scare me
) but you get just if not more straight men in their wifes knicker drawer
Originally Posted by Yoonix:
“And the twain never meets?”
“And the twain never meets?”
See Salochin? Over and above the subject, I think the thread will serve a purpose, as long as it stays kosher and I promise to behave myself
Originally Posted by phelings:
“You must be confusing me with someone who cares about other peoples opinions of me.
Bullish and arrogant.Thanks for that.
I can't see why opinions are idiotic simply because they differ from yours.
Hitler had the same idea about different opinions”
“You must be confusing me with someone who cares about other peoples opinions of me.
Bullish and arrogant.Thanks for that.
I can't see why opinions are idiotic simply because they differ from yours.
Hitler had the same idea about different opinions”
I think it was Jo Brand who said that any argument, allowed to go on for an infinite amount of time, will eventually cause someone to relate something to Hitler. And the first person to mention Hitler loses.
Scanning this thread is amusing/disturbing in equal measures... to get back to what the thread was actually about... yes free speech is important and if you want to say you don't like homosexuality, that's fine, it's your opinion... but trying to direct someone to a "cure" crosses the line from an opinion to a personal attack... I have flaming red hair and many people don't like that, but none have ever tried to drag me kicking and screaming to a hairdresser to get it dyed another colour in order to stop offending them with my existence!!
I think the kiss was out of affection. The way the character of CJ had been played I think it would have been totally wrong for him to kiss Rose and then shake hands with the Doctor in a manly, embarassed way.
Just read the entire sorry excuse for a thread.
Personally I blame the moderators for allowing it to continue, they should have stepped in a long time ago and put a stop to it.
Personally I blame the moderators for allowing it to continue, they should have stepped in a long time ago and put a stop to it.
Perhaps they should get the Gay Daleks from TV Offal in the next season too?! Don't go on Outpost Gallifrey meself, so don't know what they made of those when they were on.
It could be a whole new spin-off show. Captain Jack vs The Gay Daleks - EXSPERMINATE!
The attidudes of some people do confuse me though. Speaking as an ethnic minority in this country (White, sane, straight, male and employed) I can't do anything nowadays without insulting someone in some way or another.
Can't have my England flag up when footballs on in case I upset the immigrants.
Can't have a cross in the crematorium at my funeral in case I offend non-Christians.
Can't make lewd jokes in the office in case I upset women.
Can't get decent medical or dental treatment without paying a premium in case I offend some dole scrounger, assylum seeker or Vicky Pollard-esque single mother who thinks they have the right to fee NHS treatment over me who actually pays towards it.
Can't call people "nutters" or "morons" in case I upset the mentally ill or previous breakdown sufferers (having seen members of my own family go through breakdowns I qualify as being able to use the words in my view).
I can't call my black friends n**ger because they get offended by it - yet call themselves it on a regular basis.
Can't call my gay friends "poof" or "queen" etc, yet they refer to each other using those words.
Nowadays everything is offensive to someone. People: lighten the f*ck up and realise there is more to life than worrying about the usage of a few words here and there.
Accept people aren't always going to approve of your lifestyle. Let them get on with their lives, you get on with yours. If someone posts something like "x teaches people that being gay is acceptable and it's an abomination" - ignore them. People with no concept of other peoples views see that as fuel and will retort and retort until they either get bored or (on rare occasions) can't think of a reply to a cogent response from an adversary.
And yes I do know the difference between gay, bi, TV, TS etc. You'll find it's total homophobes that don't - because they don't WANT to know. To them it's all not normal so one is the same as the other.
So some of the people on OG don't like the way it was portrayed. But by posting "you are homophobic and wrong" just shows you are just as narrow minded and bigoted as them by not embracing the fact they have an opinion. Leave them to it.
DP
It could be a whole new spin-off show. Captain Jack vs The Gay Daleks - EXSPERMINATE!
The attidudes of some people do confuse me though. Speaking as an ethnic minority in this country (White, sane, straight, male and employed) I can't do anything nowadays without insulting someone in some way or another.
Can't have my England flag up when footballs on in case I upset the immigrants.
Can't have a cross in the crematorium at my funeral in case I offend non-Christians.
Can't make lewd jokes in the office in case I upset women.
Can't get decent medical or dental treatment without paying a premium in case I offend some dole scrounger, assylum seeker or Vicky Pollard-esque single mother who thinks they have the right to fee NHS treatment over me who actually pays towards it.
Can't call people "nutters" or "morons" in case I upset the mentally ill or previous breakdown sufferers (having seen members of my own family go through breakdowns I qualify as being able to use the words in my view).
I can't call my black friends n**ger because they get offended by it - yet call themselves it on a regular basis.
Can't call my gay friends "poof" or "queen" etc, yet they refer to each other using those words.
Nowadays everything is offensive to someone. People: lighten the f*ck up and realise there is more to life than worrying about the usage of a few words here and there.
Accept people aren't always going to approve of your lifestyle. Let them get on with their lives, you get on with yours. If someone posts something like "x teaches people that being gay is acceptable and it's an abomination" - ignore them. People with no concept of other peoples views see that as fuel and will retort and retort until they either get bored or (on rare occasions) can't think of a reply to a cogent response from an adversary.
And yes I do know the difference between gay, bi, TV, TS etc. You'll find it's total homophobes that don't - because they don't WANT to know. To them it's all not normal so one is the same as the other.
So some of the people on OG don't like the way it was portrayed. But by posting "you are homophobic and wrong" just shows you are just as narrow minded and bigoted as them by not embracing the fact they have an opinion. Leave them to it.
DP
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