Why are there no omnibus showings of the Daleks stories any more? They are the best!
Daleks and UK Gold
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Originally Posted by bee.fear:
“Why are there no omnibus showings of the Daleks stories any more? They are the best!”
“Why are there no omnibus showings of the Daleks stories any more? They are the best!”
That Nation Estate?
I beleive it's due to copyright problems. Terry Nation, who came up with the Daleks, basically has a copyright on them. There was a lot of speculation as to whether or not the daleks were even going to make it into the New Series. I would guess UK Gold have, so far, decided shelling out extra cash to be able ot show the episodes isn't worth it. Still, prehaps with the success of the new series, they might consider it.
Terry nation has been dead for years,but his estate seem to be as unreasonable in negotiations as he was.
Although he created the idea he had nothing to with the most famous thing about the Daleks,their design.
Real Whofans can correct the name but I believe it was Raymond Cusi(a?)ck who created their look.And without their look they would be nothing.But only Nation ever gets credit.
And if you look back to the original Who episodes,the Daleks are really quite naff
Although he created the idea he had nothing to with the most famous thing about the Daleks,their design.
Real Whofans can correct the name but I believe it was Raymond Cusi(a?)ck who created their look.And without their look they would be nothing.But only Nation ever gets credit.
And if you look back to the original Who episodes,the Daleks are really quite naff
Originally Posted by phelings:
“Terry nation has been dead for years,but his estate seem to be as unreasonable in negotiations as he was.
Although he created the idea he had nothing to with the most famous thing about the Daleks,their design.
Real Whofans can correct the name but I believe it was Raymond Cusi(a?)ck who created their look.And without their look they would be nothing.But only Nation ever gets credit.
And if you look back to the original Who episodes,the Daleks are really quite naff”
“Terry nation has been dead for years,but his estate seem to be as unreasonable in negotiations as he was.
Although he created the idea he had nothing to with the most famous thing about the Daleks,their design.
Real Whofans can correct the name but I believe it was Raymond Cusi(a?)ck who created their look.And without their look they would be nothing.But only Nation ever gets credit.
And if you look back to the original Who episodes,the Daleks are really quite naff”
Your sunshine rays know no bounds do they? He created and wrote all the original Dalek stories until his death...
But as I said,he did not DESIGN them,and its the design they are known for.
Certainly many of the millions watching this new series would not be aware of the original stories,and with few exceptions,most of the dalek stories were the same crap recycled over and over.
Genesis was a good one,but I believe DAY ,another good one was written by someone else.
I am saying that credit for the design should be given to the correct person
Certainly many of the millions watching this new series would not be aware of the original stories,and with few exceptions,most of the dalek stories were the same crap recycled over and over.
Genesis was a good one,but I believe DAY ,another good one was written by someone else.
I am saying that credit for the design should be given to the correct person
Originally Posted by phelings:
“But as I said,he did not DESIGN them,and its the design they are known for.
Certainly many of the millions watching this new series would not be aware of the original stories,and with few exceptions,most of the dalek stories were the same crap recycled over and over.
Genesis was a good one,but I believe DAY ,another good one was written by someone else.
I am saying that credit for the design should be given to the correct person”
“But as I said,he did not DESIGN them,and its the design they are known for.
Certainly many of the millions watching this new series would not be aware of the original stories,and with few exceptions,most of the dalek stories were the same crap recycled over and over.
Genesis was a good one,but I believe DAY ,another good one was written by someone else.
I am saying that credit for the design should be given to the correct person”
Actually, he collaborated with the designer having seen the dresses of the Georgian State Dancers gliding onto the stage in performance...next?
Originally Posted by phelings:
“So why does the designer never ever get any credit?”
“So why does the designer never ever get any credit?”
Don't ask me hunny, I'm just answering your specifics, when it comes to generalisations you'd need to consult a specialist
I do have to admit that the people who inherited the Terry Nation estate do seem very unreasonable, I do agree with them regarding the BBC's plans to change the Daleks beyond all recognition, but as to seeing them on screen it is the estates fault we will not be seeing the Daleks in series 2, in other words a bunch of greedy b*****ds are the people in involved in the estate!
I remember a long standing argument that went on between Terry Nation and DWB magazine in the late 80's where Nation tried to get cash from the magazine for simply printing Dalek photographs,even though the photos were obtained from legitimate sources that had already paid for the rights to use the pictures.I seem to remember some were even supplied by the BBC,yet Nation still wanted more.
DWB even offered to give some extra cash to charity in the spirit of goodness,but this was also refused.
Daleks-they won't be missed.
Most of the classic Who stories don't have a Dalek in sight,even one that could get up the stairs or fly
DWB even offered to give some extra cash to charity in the spirit of goodness,but this was also refused.
Daleks-they won't be missed.
Most of the classic Who stories don't have a Dalek in sight,even one that could get up the stairs or fly
Originally Posted by phelings:
“Daleks-they won't be missed.”
“Daleks-they won't be missed.”
What a ridiculous thing to say OF COURSE THEY WILL BE MISSED its just a shame the rights are held by such an interfering, greedy bunch of people.
Of course they won't be missed.
They are among the most ridiculously non threatening monsters ever seen on Dr Who,and there are many many more monsters that can be far more frightening than the Daleks.
It seems the BBC agree and realise that season 2 of the new Dr Who is not going to die without a Dalek story.
The threat of no daleks was held to the BBC's head while season 1 was in production.
Whats the betting the Nation estate give in at some point?
They know that should season 2 be a success without the Daleks then the BBC may have no reason for them ever to return
They are among the most ridiculously non threatening monsters ever seen on Dr Who,and there are many many more monsters that can be far more frightening than the Daleks.
It seems the BBC agree and realise that season 2 of the new Dr Who is not going to die without a Dalek story.
The threat of no daleks was held to the BBC's head while season 1 was in production.
Whats the betting the Nation estate give in at some point?
They know that should season 2 be a success without the Daleks then the BBC may have no reason for them ever to return
Originally Posted by phelings:
“Of course they won't be missed.
They are among the most ridiculously non threatening monsters ever seen on Dr Who,and there are many many more monsters that can be far more frightening than the Daleks.
It seems the BBC agree and realise that season 2 of the new Dr Who is not going to die without a Dalek story.
The threat of no daleks was held to the BBC's head while season 1 was in production.
Whats the betting the Nation estate give in at some point?
They know that should season 2 be a success without the Daleks then the BBC may have no reason for them ever to return”
“Of course they won't be missed.
They are among the most ridiculously non threatening monsters ever seen on Dr Who,and there are many many more monsters that can be far more frightening than the Daleks.
It seems the BBC agree and realise that season 2 of the new Dr Who is not going to die without a Dalek story.
The threat of no daleks was held to the BBC's head while season 1 was in production.
Whats the betting the Nation estate give in at some point?
They know that should season 2 be a success without the Daleks then the BBC may have no reason for them ever to return”
A case in point
what i dont get about the nation estate is the BBC can kill them off permantly, they might have just done it actually. If the daleks never return to doctor who again they are pretty worthless, especially if they are not allowed to be marketed with doctor who logos and stuff. They need the BBC more than the BBC need them, especially now.
Originally Posted by rua is god:
“what i dont get about the nation estate is the BBC can kill them off permantly, they might have just done it actually. If the daleks never return to doctor who again they are pretty worthless, especially if they are not allowed to be marketed with doctor who logos and stuff. They need the BBC more than the BBC need them, especially now.”
“what i dont get about the nation estate is the BBC can kill them off permantly, they might have just done it actually. If the daleks never return to doctor who again they are pretty worthless, especially if they are not allowed to be marketed with doctor who logos and stuff. They need the BBC more than the BBC need them, especially now.”
Not actually true, the daleks can be (and have been) marketed without any BBC input as long as the product is okayed by the estate.
Interestingly, and I'm not saying it's in any way going to happen but, Terry Nation scripted a Dalek series in the late 60s which never made it to the screen for financial/production reasons...but spun off annuals and other such merchandise at the time...I've got several of the Dalek annuals myself as it goes...but, now the CGI is available, who knows...?
I think people are either forgetting, or are too young to remember, the effect the Daleks had when they first appeared in 1963.
They made the series virtually overnight and if they had not been there then Dr Who would have been a 1960's series that would have lasted one season and probably long forgotten - we would not even be having this debate now.
It's very easy to slag off the Terry Nation estate but to be honest, if I had created something that was to live on after my death, then I seriously hope that the people looking after my estate protect my intrests with the same amout of passion that the Nation estate have with the Daleks (and Blake's 7 and Survivors). There was also a lot of anomosity between Nation and the BBC during the 1970's (his insistance on using Davros has been rumoured as one sticking point) which has led to this position. Unfortuantely for us, his estate are just carrying out his wishes and getting the best for his heirs.
Anyway back to the OP - as I understand it UK Gold's rights to Doctor Who are fast disappearing - hence the gaps in this last run and the fact they now start the repeats at Tom Baker, and also on their recent Dr Who Weekend, prior to the new series starting they showed the same episodes as they did during 2003's 40th Anniversary weekend, which I understand they had negotiated seperate rights for.
The last thing heard from UK Gold was:
1 - They see no requirement to show the old B/W Hartnell/Troughton episodes, though there is a rumour they may be on UK Drama.
2 - The rights to all the Jon Pertwee shows have now expired but maybe renewed at some point in the future.
3 - They lost the rights to the Daleks at the same time as the BBC - June 2003. Whether the new agreemement with the Nation estate for the use of the Daleks by the BBC includes old episodes is unknown.
The situation is very unclear at the moment and there has not been a dalek DVD release for sometime (certainly since the rights expired) - a situation that will be remedied with the release of Revelation Of The Daleks next month - adding to the confusion.
To be honest I think we may see UK TV resting Dr Who from Gold after this current run (sometime in October I believe) and moving it to UK Drama now it has gone 24 hours. Hopefully this will see a renewal/re negotiation of their rights and a full showing of the entire cycle - including the Daleks.
They made the series virtually overnight and if they had not been there then Dr Who would have been a 1960's series that would have lasted one season and probably long forgotten - we would not even be having this debate now.
It's very easy to slag off the Terry Nation estate but to be honest, if I had created something that was to live on after my death, then I seriously hope that the people looking after my estate protect my intrests with the same amout of passion that the Nation estate have with the Daleks (and Blake's 7 and Survivors). There was also a lot of anomosity between Nation and the BBC during the 1970's (his insistance on using Davros has been rumoured as one sticking point) which has led to this position. Unfortuantely for us, his estate are just carrying out his wishes and getting the best for his heirs.
Anyway back to the OP - as I understand it UK Gold's rights to Doctor Who are fast disappearing - hence the gaps in this last run and the fact they now start the repeats at Tom Baker, and also on their recent Dr Who Weekend, prior to the new series starting they showed the same episodes as they did during 2003's 40th Anniversary weekend, which I understand they had negotiated seperate rights for.
The last thing heard from UK Gold was:
1 - They see no requirement to show the old B/W Hartnell/Troughton episodes, though there is a rumour they may be on UK Drama.
2 - The rights to all the Jon Pertwee shows have now expired but maybe renewed at some point in the future.
3 - They lost the rights to the Daleks at the same time as the BBC - June 2003. Whether the new agreemement with the Nation estate for the use of the Daleks by the BBC includes old episodes is unknown.
The situation is very unclear at the moment and there has not been a dalek DVD release for sometime (certainly since the rights expired) - a situation that will be remedied with the release of Revelation Of The Daleks next month - adding to the confusion.
To be honest I think we may see UK TV resting Dr Who from Gold after this current run (sometime in October I believe) and moving it to UK Drama now it has gone 24 hours. Hopefully this will see a renewal/re negotiation of their rights and a full showing of the entire cycle - including the Daleks.
I have to strongly disagree with the person saying the daleks wont be missed. For a lot of people the daleks are an important part of the whole doctor who universe. There doesnt have to be any daleks in Series 2, I think people can go a series without seeing them but I would very much like to see the Doctor fight the daleks again, whether the emporer dalek or davros' lot.
Lets hope that when/if UK Gold or UK Drama do some more runs of the series that they return to proper episodic versions,so at least we can record them on dvd.
If the BBC take as long to release the series on dvd as they did on VHS,those of us who saw it when it first aired will be dead by then
If the BBC take as long to release the series on dvd as they did on VHS,those of us who saw it when it first aired will be dead by then
Interesting thread this. Urban Bassman's post is especially interesting, I often wondered what was going on behind the scenes between the BBC and the Nation estate.
Phelings is almost certainly wrong about the Daleks not being missed, but is probably right when he implies that Terry Nation received too much credit for the Daleks success.
As Urban says, it was the Daleks that made Dr Who a success, no question about that. Before the Daleks, Dr Who had been met with unimpressive ratings and critical rejection. The Daleks changed all that, literally overnight. I think you had to be there to appreciate the effect. After The Mutants, the overall reaction was so positiv that Dr Who was saved from being quietly dropped. And a bit later, it was Dalek Invasion of Earth that took Dr Who to the next level, and assured it's cult status. Indeed, the Daleks will probably be remembered as sixties icons long into the future by historians who have otherwise little interest in sci-fi TV programmes.
And their appeal today is still very great. They are still THE quintessential Dr Who monsters. They still receive praise from all quarters. Children love them, critics love them. Even people who aren't sci-fi fans love them! Lorraine Kelly, for example described them as "the best TV monsters ever." If Dr Who survives, it's unthinkable that the Daleks won't make a comeback sooner or later. The public and the media will demand it.
Ray Cuisack was really the creator of the Daleks. Terry Nation wrote the original script, but it wasn't actually that original (it was really just a re-write of HG Wells story "The Time Machine"). It was the designer's interpretation of the (very basic) Nation description that made the Daleks into the great iconic success, of that there is little doubt. And, John Flawbod, I don't agree that Nation wrote the best Dalek scripts; that honour surely goes to David Whittaker, the writer in the late 60's. The Daleks were at their most cunning and most deadly when Whittaker was at the helm, imho.
Nation deserves a little credit but his hold over the Daleks is not morally justified in my opinion. And if he did indeed insist on continually using Davros, then he also has a lot to answer for. Davros was OK for "Genesis", but the process of continually resurrecting him devalued the Daleks, and reduced Dr Who's credibility, providing ammunition for the programmes enemies, such as Mr Michael Grade.
Phelings is almost certainly wrong about the Daleks not being missed, but is probably right when he implies that Terry Nation received too much credit for the Daleks success.
As Urban says, it was the Daleks that made Dr Who a success, no question about that. Before the Daleks, Dr Who had been met with unimpressive ratings and critical rejection. The Daleks changed all that, literally overnight. I think you had to be there to appreciate the effect. After The Mutants, the overall reaction was so positiv that Dr Who was saved from being quietly dropped. And a bit later, it was Dalek Invasion of Earth that took Dr Who to the next level, and assured it's cult status. Indeed, the Daleks will probably be remembered as sixties icons long into the future by historians who have otherwise little interest in sci-fi TV programmes.
And their appeal today is still very great. They are still THE quintessential Dr Who monsters. They still receive praise from all quarters. Children love them, critics love them. Even people who aren't sci-fi fans love them! Lorraine Kelly, for example described them as "the best TV monsters ever." If Dr Who survives, it's unthinkable that the Daleks won't make a comeback sooner or later. The public and the media will demand it.
Ray Cuisack was really the creator of the Daleks. Terry Nation wrote the original script, but it wasn't actually that original (it was really just a re-write of HG Wells story "The Time Machine"). It was the designer's interpretation of the (very basic) Nation description that made the Daleks into the great iconic success, of that there is little doubt. And, John Flawbod, I don't agree that Nation wrote the best Dalek scripts; that honour surely goes to David Whittaker, the writer in the late 60's. The Daleks were at their most cunning and most deadly when Whittaker was at the helm, imho.
Nation deserves a little credit but his hold over the Daleks is not morally justified in my opinion. And if he did indeed insist on continually using Davros, then he also has a lot to answer for. Davros was OK for "Genesis", but the process of continually resurrecting him devalued the Daleks, and reduced Dr Who's credibility, providing ammunition for the programmes enemies, such as Mr Michael Grade.
Lots of stuff going on here!
The first point to raise is that I feel Terry Nation was not a particularly brilliant sci-fi writer. Most of his Dalek stories are pretty much identikit, and the best Dalek stories were written by other people! (Day Of.. by Louis Marks, Evil Of.. and Power Of.. by David Whittaker, Revelation of.. by Eric Saward, Dalek by Rob Shearman). Some of TN's Dalek stories are very run-of-the-mill! (Death To.., Destiny Of.., The Chase).
I would also draw your attention to some of the drear that Mr Nation wrote for Blake's 7, and to his non Dalek DW story The Android Invasion.
That's not to say he was a poo writer (his comedy stuff is great; Dalek Invasion of Earth is great; and I have just got his post-holocaust series Survivors on DVD, which I believe is magnificent). The Daleks were nearly always best when written by other people. Even Douglas Adams stated that TN's origianl spiel for Destiny Of.. consisted of a couple of explosions and some corridors.
TN was always passionate about the Daleks. They made him a multi-millionaire. His estate continues to protect the Daleks with a vengeful jealousy. Also, I feel they may have the same attitude to Blake's 7, hence the huge delay before B7 got a DVD release, and the scuppering of the recent attempted B7 revival. Very astute and sound business people.
Ray Cusick didn't get any credit or cash for designing the Daleks, because he was a BBC staff member, and it was his job. Peter Brachaki, designer of the Tardis control room, doesn't get huge recognition, either. Nor, for that matter, do the set designers of EastEnders, Corrie, or anything else. It's part of their job, and they aren't self-employed, contractors, or anything like that.
I don't see that the Daleks are completely destroyed forever more, and can never be used again. The Doctor can always go back in time and meet them.
chuff.x.
The first point to raise is that I feel Terry Nation was not a particularly brilliant sci-fi writer. Most of his Dalek stories are pretty much identikit, and the best Dalek stories were written by other people! (Day Of.. by Louis Marks, Evil Of.. and Power Of.. by David Whittaker, Revelation of.. by Eric Saward, Dalek by Rob Shearman). Some of TN's Dalek stories are very run-of-the-mill! (Death To.., Destiny Of.., The Chase).
I would also draw your attention to some of the drear that Mr Nation wrote for Blake's 7, and to his non Dalek DW story The Android Invasion.
That's not to say he was a poo writer (his comedy stuff is great; Dalek Invasion of Earth is great; and I have just got his post-holocaust series Survivors on DVD, which I believe is magnificent). The Daleks were nearly always best when written by other people. Even Douglas Adams stated that TN's origianl spiel for Destiny Of.. consisted of a couple of explosions and some corridors.
TN was always passionate about the Daleks. They made him a multi-millionaire. His estate continues to protect the Daleks with a vengeful jealousy. Also, I feel they may have the same attitude to Blake's 7, hence the huge delay before B7 got a DVD release, and the scuppering of the recent attempted B7 revival. Very astute and sound business people.
Ray Cusick didn't get any credit or cash for designing the Daleks, because he was a BBC staff member, and it was his job. Peter Brachaki, designer of the Tardis control room, doesn't get huge recognition, either. Nor, for that matter, do the set designers of EastEnders, Corrie, or anything else. It's part of their job, and they aren't self-employed, contractors, or anything like that.
I don't see that the Daleks are completely destroyed forever more, and can never be used again. The Doctor can always go back in time and meet them.
chuff.x.
Originally Posted by chuffnobbler:
“Lots of stuff going on here!
The first point to raise is that I feel Terry Nation was not a particularly brilliant sci-fi writer.
TN was always passionate about the Daleks. They made him a multi-millionaire. His estate continues to protect the Daleks with a vengeful jealousy. Also, I feel they may have the same attitude to Blake's 7,
I
chuff.x.”
“Lots of stuff going on here!
The first point to raise is that I feel Terry Nation was not a particularly brilliant sci-fi writer.
TN was always passionate about the Daleks. They made him a multi-millionaire. His estate continues to protect the Daleks with a vengeful jealousy. Also, I feel they may have the same attitude to Blake's 7,
I
chuff.x.”
Following on from this, I remember as a kid my mum brought me a book 'Rebecca's World' specifically because it was by Terry Nation and it was really good!
However I've just looked on Amazon to check I remembered the correct name of the book (it WAS a long time ago) and you can't get a copy of that either- only second hand ones for 35 quid!
So it's not just the TV programmes they're protective over.
The Daleks will be back, I'm certain of it. They are an integral part of the DH universe and given the Dalek-like design of the new Tardis I'm sure the back story will be a cracker.
Perhaps it's a good thing that they will be such a costly foe as that may help maintain the high quality of the stories and not be some cheap solution to low ratings.
Perhaps it's a good thing that they will be such a costly foe as that may help maintain the high quality of the stories and not be some cheap solution to low ratings.
Originally Posted by kaptain_krunch:
“The Daleks will be back, I'm certain of it. They are an integral part of the DH universe and given the Dalek-like design of the new Tardis I'm sure the back story will be a cracker.
Perhaps it's a good thing that they will be such a costly foe as that may help maintain the high quality of the stories and not be some cheap solution to low ratings.”
“The Daleks will be back, I'm certain of it. They are an integral part of the DH universe and given the Dalek-like design of the new Tardis I'm sure the back story will be a cracker.
Perhaps it's a good thing that they will be such a costly foe as that may help maintain the high quality of the stories and not be some cheap solution to low ratings.”
Good point. I reckon we might see them in series 3 or 4 (if there is one).
If RTD can't find a way to bring them back, then we might have to wait a few years longer. I have this vision: Doctor Who has run it's course again and ends after 4 series. Fast forward to 2013, 50 years after the the first appearanc of the Doctor. There's a Sci-Fi revival and Doctor Who makes another comeback. Guess who they wheel out to ensure maximum publicity and guaranteed ratings? Yep, you're right. The Daleks.
While the Daleks are definitely what shot the series to success in '63-'64,the world and viewers expectations are very different today and although an appearance by the Daleks is welcomed,their complete abscence from the show would do it little harm.
As the above post says,most of Nations Dalek stories were average at best and the series has many many more monsters that are equally or more frightening
As the above post says,most of Nations Dalek stories were average at best and the series has many many more monsters that are equally or more frightening
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