That would be awful. Why do we need to see a wedding?

Series 1 now looks somewhat dated to me, maybe moreso than the TV Movie, and I think that's down to it's glossiness not working so well upon repeat viewing, butI think what S1, and Rose in particular does very successfully is provide a transition in visual style from when we last saw the Doctor in the TV Movie to something more reminiscent of the classic series.

The start of New Earth is refreshing because it's from there that this transition seems complete in so much as by then what's established is the new series' own visual style.

I don't think much of the visuals have dated but the overabundance of pop culture reference have certainly dated it, which is a shame.

I still enjoy watching the finale episodes but the whole Big Brother/reality show inclusion has well and truly lost its charm. Just like those shows themselves.

Think it's only 'bad wolf' in series 1 really which suffers from this but yeah, putting in jokes on shows that were current and popular at the time was not a good idea. I think they should never put 'current' references in who as episodes should have re-watch value and 'current' references today are just old fashioned bad jokes tomorrow. Same with 10 mentioning harry potter and 11 mentioning twitter. Really wish writers would resist the temptation to do it.

In 20 years if you were showing 'bad wolf' to a child I think you'd have to be there to explain and even then they probably wouldn't like it, which is a shame, because it is a good episode really, Whereas 'parting of the ways' is timeless despite being the second part of the same story, because it is self contained and you don't need to know anything outside the show to get it.

Yeah, I suppose "Parting of the Ways" did step out of that bubble of the first part and focusses on the plot rather than the reality show satire.

Yeah, but who the FRICK are Hale and Pace?

True, but equally valid is the argument that "Bad Wolf" was made to be viewed on television in 2005, not on Blu Ray, or some streaming device, in 2025 or 2035. And it was these links to popular culture that helped make Who so popular in 2005.

Of course I agree that the most important thing is that an episode is as good as it can be for the time it is broadcast, and that rewatch value is secondary, but I just think if you write a good script can do both without the need for such references. It dosen't actually happen that much, which kind of proves that it isn't needed because most episodes don't have that sort of thing and yet the good one's are loved regardless. Indeed most episodes in that series didn't reference any pop culture and yet It was popular before 'bad wolf' was broadcast with most episodes in that series still considered strong today.

Putting aside the whole rewatch point, with the show in general, I also find it annoying when the doctor say's something about 'current' subjects when I'm watching an episode for the first time as well. Here is character that has lived through many lives through hundreds of years and is constantly in a completely different time and place. His jokes and quips that come to mind wouldn't all coincidentally be from the culture of earth in the early 21st century, and to portray it as such is almost like breaking the fourth wall for me. If he's on earth present day, then fair enough, because that is him just bringing to mind knowledge of the time period he is in, but any other time, it just dosen't feel right to me.

Same as I did when I first saw it - 'glad its back, CE gurns too much' - he really has one of the worst Regens in my book GURN GURN BURN

He's not usually breaking the fourth wall, but the wall between himself and his companion - who is from the 21st Century, so it'll help if he describes the future or past in 21st Century terms.

Maybe it can be explained in that way some of the time, but there are instances where he's seemed to do it regardless of who he's talking to, like the part in the impossible planet/satan pit (can't remember if in part 1 or 2) where he jokily says "this will be the best christmas walford's ever had" as an analogy to someone who was not from our time and would likely had no idea what he meant.

I remember that quote being very jarring - it goes over the head of most people watching outside of the UK already, let alone people from the future.

I appreciate the odd contemporary cultural reference. Bad Wolf just about pulls it off by remaining largely vague, and the little in-jokes about the game shows are disposable enough. There were one of two references to non-existent game shows as well suggesting there were some future references being thrown in.
The Twitter reference in The Girl Who Waited just about works as it's directed at Amy who comes from a time period where Twitter is very relevant. So long as we don't get flooded with references like these it's okay I think

But when the Doctor talks to people from the future like Captain Jack he never makes references to the pop-culture of their time period. That's why it's so jarring.

Of course, there's nothing new about this. Back in The Mind Robber, the Doctor only knew about fictional characters created before the mid 60s. He'd never heard of the Karkus, supposedly from the 21st century.

Also, the scene in Army of Ghosts where the Doctor is flicking through the channels on Jackie Tyler's TV, and EE's Peggy Mitchell comes on, supposidely talking to Den Watts' ghost.

People watching this overseas, may not be able to get EastEnders in their country, so that scene will just go over their heads, leaving them confused. Some people in other countries, who can get EE, may not like it at all, and haven't watched it.

DW producers need to be careful about what they include in their show. A lot of people in the UK and overseas who are so much of a fan of the show, will think that the relevant episode/episodes have been totally ruined by including a scene from another show that they think is utter crap.

Talking of that, the series 1 finale two-parter Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways includes a few scenes of people from the future participating in a futuristic version of Big Brother. I know for a fact that a lot of people don't give a monkeys about Big Brother. They hate it and will not watch any of it.

Lastly, they included a future version of The Weakest Link with the 'Anne Droid' copy of Anne Robinson from the late 20th, and early 21st Centuries. Some people cannot get Weakest Link in their country. And Roddrick, when he says "Where's my money? I won the money!" Oh, he kept on saying that, and I found that quite tedious.

Anyway, enough of me rabbiting on. I don't want to start digging myself a hole.

They are a British sketch show Comedy duo. They had a show on ITV, which ran for 10 series between 1988 and 1998.

Here is part one of the very first episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS15YwyvsUM

Plus the wiki blurb about them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS15YwyvsUM

You now know who Hale and Pace are, at last! I'm surprised you've never heard of them!

Yes, that line was funny! Also the scene in series 1, when Jackie was in her silk dressing gown, and she says "There's a strange man in my bedroom." The Doctor says, "Yes, there is." Jackie then says, "Well, anything could happen." The Doctor then says "no!" before walking away.

Looked for that scene on YouTube, but couldn't find it. Shame!

What's to get? It works on the level of "Generic scene in generic drama set in a pub," and it works if you recognise the character and setting. Recognising it as EastEnders isn't essential to the joke, it's a bonus.

All things date, to me pop culture references don't bother me in the slightest, I don't think they date any quicker. Think in 2035, u can have a wave of nostalgia about a time when people watched BB. When you try an build a future it will always just be an extension of the time you live in. 60's future will look like the 60's. 70's future will look like the 70's. Warriors of the deep future just looks like the 80's to me.

The Walford reference made me laugh. Tbh, Doctor Who is a British show so will have reference that only British people will get. why would a writer have to think I cant say that because a bloke in Australia may not get it. Its a british show they can do brit only jokes its fine.