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who will be the next scapegoat then?
minxy_21
24-06-2002
If Sophie does get voted out, I wonder who this group will make their next scape goat? I suspect it will be jonny myself, or possibly Kate.

Having done some work on group dynamics and roles within groups, I would be interested to hear what others think about the H.M's roles within the house.

If Jade is the baby, is Adelle mummy and Alex daddy? what is Tim's role? I have a suspicion he could be a sabateur.

P.J. - Im not sure of his role either, any ideas?
Atlantic
24-06-2002
Pj's really settled in well on the rich side and seems to be getting along with everyone at the moment. Am I right or have I gone completely insane??
quinnster
24-06-2002
You're right - PJ has come out of his shell a lot.
I quite like him now, but before he rarely did or said anything of any note.
minxy_21
24-06-2002
does that make him a chamelion perhaps ?

sorry im not too sure about the spelling of that

Lucytash
24-06-2002
Jonny saw himself as the daddy. He talks about how he organises the social things, shopping, trips etc. at work. It's really annoyed him that he's been cheated out of this role. he was griping about people grabbing the laminates to read, wanting to organise the shopping, cooking etc. But he doesn't have the finesse to lead this younger, trendier, travelled group.
Tim is confident & has education & class (middle not aristocratic. His father was an airline pilot for foreign, high-paying airlines & his mother from working class origins) on his side. he may well want to be leader. He was determined to get his hose/shower brainwave working & I suspect not very happy when it failed.
kate is just an ordinary, good-looking girl who is there to pretty things up & was probably in there to provoke romance.
Sophie too.
The Ch4 pschs. had Alex as the father, Adele as the moher & Jade as the baby.
God knows why PJ is there! except he's good at maths.
I don't think Alex wants to be the father unless his Sat. turmoil with making choices was an act but he is a control freak - only child, used to no competition & obviously adored by mother & father.
BlueEyes
24-06-2002
Quote:
“who will be the next scapegoat then?”

I think it will be Kate...they will go through the girls first
jockie
24-06-2002
Alex - only child? I thought I saw Davina speaking to Alex's brother the first time he was up for eviction. He was good looking, sitting next to a blonde, with a baby there as well.
gadfly
24-06-2002
I think this year's BB is confusing when it comes to analysing specific roles. Last year was so easy, almost too easy (Dean and Elizabeth as mummy and daddy, Brian and Helen as the kids etc).

In the rich side, Alex and Adele definitely do seem to take on parental roles. Alex may be reluctant, but can't be anything but dominant - it's his way, while Adele, I get the feeling, is accustomed to being 'motherly' as the eldest of many siblings.

Jade loves her 'babba' role while PJ seems to want to be the adolescent male; trying to be mature and responsible but liable to failure (and easy forgiveness). This is a great role if you can capture it - I think Paul in BB2 took this on, and less convincingly than PJ to date. (Although it does open the way for reprimands from 'higher' family members and the teen-boy can promote rebellion). PJ is possibly lucky too, in that 'baby' Jade, despite her record for histrionics-on-tap, seems much more sexually precocious and less truly vulnerable than Helen did. Hence PJ is less liable for moral censure in his behavior towards her.

Kate was clearly an alpha-female character, but will now be directionless as her 'prince' is gone. I am interested to see if she now forsakes Jonny, who has been her closest playmate (even a friendly surrogate for Spencer when he was still in the house) and moves on to the security of Tim, who clearly wants to be a leader and has the huge advantage of strategic information from his watching the show beforehand. Tim can be amusing and charming and says all the right things, but he is ruthless and will do what he sees as necessary to win. He will test existing relationships to the limit before this show is done, and will certainly test the group's subliminal perception of Alex as the 'leader'. I'd be surprised if he didn't make use of his sojourn in the poor world to forge a strong role for himself, and will be a false comfort to Kate and a 'friend' to the estranged Jonny. For all that, Tim doesn't strike me as a 'natural' leader in the way Alex does, but his greater level of cunning (Alex often demonstrates a scary lack of interpersonal awareness!! He really does see only his own little world a lot of the time I think, unless it's world issues etc, when he's often pretty good) - Tim's crafty intelligence will serve him well for a while, but could prove to be his undoing if loyalties to Alex are strongly maintained or Alex wises up and decides to actually wield his own potential power. If Jade (or even Adele) was evicted - likely to happen soon-ish - Alex could be in big trouble.

Jonny is a tough character to work out, because he was deprived of the paternal role he probably gravitated towards, from Day One, by a higher 'patriarch' in the form of Sandy and then by the emergence of Spencer and Alex as co-leaders. His stab at parenthood (in concert with Alison) clearly failed, and he has not recovered. His role as court jester wore thin too quickly too. He is left as a 'kindly uncle' comforter of fellow-strays - Kate, even Sophie - but this means he shouldn't be wholly written off, even though he is vulnerable to attack in his position as the failed side of the family. He can also engage public sympathies. He is in greatest danger if Sophie (very likely) or Kate is evicted, and needs to swiftly befriend the likes of Adele, to ensure he is re-assimilated into the fold. However, his antipathy towards Alex means he is more likely to bond with Tim. This is a really tricky time for Jonny! HIs best bet is probably to stay 'kindly' and calm, and court public appeal as the friendly uncle-outsider.

Oh dear. Poor Sophie. Well. She has become extraneous to the group and it is getting painful to watch. I wish her parents would get her out of there, fast. She really has no-where to turn. She might semi-bond with Kate, who is feeling similarly low, but I can't see that as a real, trusting relationship (not cool enough for Kate, basically, even while she is in such dire circumstances). Uncle Jonny is her best haven, but he can't offer her any real protection. It is a disaster for Sophie that Tim dislikes her so much (based, it seems, as much on his realising public opinion of her), and she rebuffed Alex's attempts to assimilate her last week, a truly stupid move. In an ideal world, Sophie would have liked to be the alpha-female or even a mother-figure - ie: with power. In cave-society, you get the horrible feeling that this group would have deliberately discarded her to fend for herself by now, to ensure she didn't consume precious supplies. I think this is also why her mere existence - especially when in the rich house - so deeply outraged and offended people (particularly Jade because she is too immature to see beyond survival issues, and lacks compassion).

SORRY THIS IS SUCH A LONG MESSAGE!!
CheshireCat
24-06-2002
Quote:
“Originally posted by minxy_21
If Sophie does get voted out, I wonder who this group will make their next scape goat? I suspect it will be jonny myself, or possibly Kate.
”

Why would they make you a scapegoat Minxy?
spoon
24-06-2002
I think its all set to change again when the bars come down - the bars have brought out the worst in people IMO - I wonder if the group has been fractured beyond repair or whether it will setlle down into a group once more...

I think that Adele will work her way through the girls first - despite her (aledged) sexualtiy she seems to find it easier to use her charms on the boys

spoon
Lucytash
24-06-2002
Quote:
“Originally posted by jockie
Alex - only child? I thought I saw Davina speaking to Alex's brother the first time he was up for eviction. He was good looking, sitting next to a blonde, with a baby there as well. ”

wasn't that his friend? I'm sure I've heard him talk about being an only child
plums
24-06-2002
Kate then Jonny , maybe PJ.. After that Adelle will be ready to work on getting Jade out so she can go head to head with the two Daddys.......... Unless Tim has made himself more obvious as Mr. ' I must win at all costs' ........
plums
24-06-2002
last eviction - Alex to Tim - ' Et tu Tim?'
beccie
24-06-2002
I think Sophie made herself a scapegoat and the end of the day. Coming into the house late must have been tough but she was the one who segregated herslf off with Lee and at times he was the only person she would speak too. Surely she must have realised that this would be a mistake and that the others would see her as being 'snobbish' towards them and not only did he have a partner outside the house she also upset the close friendship between Lee and Adele. Being female herself surely she must have realised the woman do not look kindly towards other women who go around with attached men and that the feeling inside the house about this would also be the feelings of most of the female population in this country.
gadfly
24-06-2002
Quote:
“Plums said:
last eviction - Alex to Tim - ' Et tu Tim?'”

LOL!
gadfly
24-06-2002
Quote:
“original quote from Beccie:
Being female herself surely she must have realised the woman do not look kindly towards other women who go around with attached men and that the feeling inside the house about this would also be the feelings of most of the female population in this country.”

But this sentiment hasn't affected Adele, has it? Which makes me think that there is a racial dimension to this (BTW Beccie: I'm not accusing you of this! Am talking of society as a whole). It was OK if Adele was flirting with Lee, but if Sophie did, this made her a 'tart' in society's eyes. And a fallen woman, deserves a proverbial stoning, of course! (sad, strange and unbelievable to think our value system hasn't progressed much beyond the 'biblical').
beccie
24-06-2002
To be fair I thought that Adele was also so very wrong for what she did with Lee as well, I also think that her trips to the diary room to make sure that it was on tape that Lee had been telling her in secret that he liked her was bang out of order too. However Adele drew a line under it when it started to get heavy. I think that with Sophie she made a beeline for Lee in the belief that he would look after and protect (I think she saw him staying a lot longer) and bearing in mind that she must have had some idea of what was going on between Adele & Lee beforehand made Sophie look a lot more of a 'predetor' woman whereas Adele appeared to be chased by Lee and he made more of a move onto her.
minxy_21
24-06-2002
LOL @ CheshireCat
zippy999
24-06-2002
I think Adele will target Kate next and see to it that she goes.Then probrably PJ and Spencer.I think shes going to be there till the end...shes so cunning!
Clarey
24-06-2002
She must be bloody clever to target Spencer!
zippy999
24-06-2002
Sorry!Im so dense!!I meant Jonny!
Devilot
24-06-2002
Quote:
“Originally posted by Lucytash

wasn't that his friend? I'm sure I've heard him talk about being an only child
”

It was Alex's friend Tim, they must use the same stylist!!
johnno
24-06-2002
Quote:
“Originally posted by quinnster
You're right - PJ has come out of his shell a lot.
I quite like him now, but before he rarely did or said anything of any note.
”

Ditto. PJ has come out since his dad, Spencer, left. I think he spent too much time trying to impress Spencer with his manliness. Now he needn't bother, so can relax and interact a bit more. Plus, he is being spoilt with all that the rich side has to offer - he is not one for slumming it. So he's a lot happier, and we see a better, cleaner, smilier, chumier side to PJ than previously.
Adsam
24-06-2002
Quote:
“Originally posted by jockie
Alex - only child? I thought I saw Davina speaking to Alex's brother the first time he was up for eviction. He was good looking, sitting next to a blonde, with a baby there as well. ”

That was Alex's boyfriend.........oops
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