DTC,

I'm not in Evilwillow's camp but your arguments are flawed. Just because some women behave in a similar fashion to PJ and perhaps lots of other men do this doesn't make his conduct or attitudes acceptable.

PJ displays a basic lack of respect for women by constantly making these foul remarks. If it were only occaisionally then one could treat his comments as jokes and make a personal judgment as to whether they are in bad taste but because he never balances these with appreciative/sensible comments it is obvious that he isn't just joking.

In PJ's world women really are just totty there for his pleasure. Unfortunately, he has a weak character - as shown by his taking the submissive role to Spencer - so I imagine that for the most part he is unsuccessful with girls.

In my opinion PJ is a scumbag with nothing to offer until he grows up and starts adding a bit of reality to his fantasy world. We all make tasteless comments/jokes sometimes but PJ is 24/7. Defending him without recognising this puts you at risk of being classed with him.

fastjet21,

I’m not so much defending him personally. EvilWillow seems to jump on his every utterance, isolate a part of it, twists it and turns it into some vile act of misogyny. Just read the GU thread she ‘contributes’ to, or my first post on this subject. Yes, some of his remarks aren’t nice, he does it far too often, but he should be cut a little slack. As I said, is he not allowed to even JOKE? Call it gutter humour or whatever, but he often says it with his tongue firmly in cheek.

It seems to me also that EvilWillow objects so strongly because he jokes about women, often crudely. I didn’t realize that joking about women has been made a criminal offence! Because, believe me, joking about men is all the rage at the moment!

I’ll say it again – when women make cruel, sexist jokes about men, that’s cool. Only it’s not. And EvilWillow is not above doing that herself, so she should cut the hypocrisy.

And as for being classed with him – I hope I’ve made it clear I’m extremely in favour of equality and fairness. I don’t behave like him, but I think that some of the comments made ABOUT HIM are sexist and I’m firmly against that.

The reason I dislike PJ is his lack of respect for women, and I would dislike a woman just as much for showing lack of respect for blokes. PJ's attitude is immature, in the same way that Adelle and Jade are immature in their bitching and lack of respect for Sophie's person or feelings. Of all the housemates Adelle, Jade, PJ and Tim come across as having one hell of a lot of growing up to do. In any case PJ's talk of what he's going to do when he gets outside the house is unlikely to come to much - everyone has heard his bragging and no self respecting female would go there (especially now we know where he's been! ).

I'm sorry, but you say *I* have issues? I quote PJ himself and you call me scum - you know nothing about me, and I think the kind of personal vitriol that my postings have provoked you to are evidence to the fact that it is YOU with the problems, sweetheart. I criticise someone who happens to be a man and immediately I am a man hater? I repeat, you know nothing about me ... I however have every right to criticise PJ, for I DO know something of him. Plus the fact that it was his choice to go on BB. I have '****ed up emotions' because I object to his behaviour? YOU, darling, have ****ed up emotions because you have responded to my posts with such aggression.

No, I'm not suggesting that no woman has ever slept with a man and regretted it - it's YOU who seems intent in putting such words into my mouth ... What makes you come to the conclusion that I think this from what I posted? It's YOU who is turning my post into some sort of ****ed up battle of the sexes, where all men are evil and all women are saintly. I AM COMMENTING ON ONE PERSON. Again, I say it is you who has the problem - clearly, you are taking this all a tad personally. I wonder why.

Incidentally, seeing as this is a discussion about PJ, clearly I'm going to be talking about PJ, not what Adele and Jade are saying. NOT because they are women.

'Easy isn't it, because most men just sit back, cowed, and let you get away with it.' Let me get away with what, exactly? Having my own opinion?

'PJ may have faults, but your incessant, vitriolic, nasty, man hating slating of him is vile.' I am quoting WHAT HE SAID. If you see nothing wrong with it, more fool you, but they are HIS WORDS.

'Sexism works the other way, you know. Get help - you've got real problems, lady.' I am commenting on one person, NOT the whole male species. Instead of attacking me, I suggest you take a good look at yourself and try to figure out what provoked suh an attack. Good luck, it sounds like you need it.

<PS for the woman who posted 'don't tar us all with the same brush - well, that's exactly what he's doing, isn't it? But *I'm* sexist?>

Incidentally, fastjet21, you ARE in my camp, either that or I'm in yours, because I couldn't agree with you more.

To quote myself, if I may:

"EvilWillow seems to jump on his every utterance, isolate a part of it, twists it and turns it into some vile act of misogyny"

And to quote yourself:

"PS for the woman who posted 'don't tar us all with the same brush - well, that's exactly what he's doing, isn't it? "

See what I mean? Now you're doing it to me! I DIDN'T say that you represented all women - you're saying that.

And as for not knowing anything about you - I've read the GU posts for weeks and I can only go on what I read. And it has not been nice...

My main gripe with you, EvilWillow, is that you take everything that PJ does/says, examine it under a microscope and come to the conclusion that it's misogynistic. And I do mean everything; read back over your posts on GU. And it's not just quoting 'WHAT HE SAID' - it's the fact that you put everything in a different context and thus change his meaning. You strip away the humour, intent etc. and lay bare the words, then add your comments to create a new context.

You can't seem to allow that, as a man, he may make jokes about the opposite sex. Or make crude comments. Or be tongue in cheek. Or just HAVE A LAUGH, generally. Or have regrets and behave badly. Yeah, he's a complete dick, and he does have a lack of respect for women, but it doesn't make him a woman hater. Just a pratt with a big mouth. Your hatred of him borders on the fanatical, and is all based on his 'misogyny'. And that's one of the *issues*.

On the other hand, as I pointed out, when the girls in the house make sexist remarks, you are silent. And you're not above doing it yourself (penis size observation?). So therefore it must be about PJ's sex or you're simply a hypocrite. But if I've got you wrong, fair enough, I'm wrong.

BTW, I have no problem with women, except for the ones who treat men as inferior beings capable of thinking only with their dicks. Or the ones who use Girl Power, sexism, misogyny as a shield to behave exactly as men do and then scream when a man doesn't behave like a perfect gent 24/7.

There's a lot of it about, you know.

PS - I wonder what you, and everyone else, would have said if Jade had shown PJ the cold shoulder? Just curious...

If you have problems with me on GU, bring them to my attention on GU. Don't attack me here.

You write ...Yeah, he's a complete dick, and he does have a lack of respect for women ... which is exactly wehat I'm saying, so why the personal attack on me?

PJ has sussed EvilBitchAdele and none of the others have. He deserves to stay for the end for that.

"Give them a good seeing to?"

<puke>

Oh, giving women 'a good seeing to' is alright, then?

Carry on defending PJ's actions, because your defense shows him, and yourself, in an even worse light.

I didn't realise, and neither, I am sure, do many women here, that threatening violence to another person is a joking matter.

Do you think that equating sexual intercourse to abuse is a laughing matter, then?

Last week, the vile PJ went so far as to start a sentence with: "Not being chauvenistic but ..." then went on to explain how it's best to have a woman on your side of the house because cleaning "comes, you know, like naturally to women - it's in their genes."

EvilWillow,

There! You've just done it again - "Yeah, he's a complete dick, and he does have a lack of respect for women"

Now, I said: "Yeah, he's a complete dick, and he does have a lack of respect for women, but it doesn't make him a woman hater. Just a pratt with a big mouth"

You cut out the bit that suited, and made it fit your argument, leaving the main thrust of my argument behind. Again, I agree that he may lack respect, but does that lack of respect mean that he's a woman hater? NO! Are you prepared to consider that possibility?

It's just too easy - a man says something about a woman (or a series of things in PJ's case) and he automatically hates women! Rubbish - he's just a man who criticised or joked about a woman. So what; surely women are not beyond criticism or being joked about?!!

Something I missed out of my last post - I simply turn these things around and bring in the fact that women are capable of the same things to illustrate the hypocrisy that is too common. I truly doubt that a woman behaving like PJ would be condemned in such a vile manner. It would probably be a giant chorus of "Go Girl!!!"

Have I got a problem with that? Too right I have, but I'm not worried about it.

Ghengis,

"does he not just mean "give them a good seeing to"?"

Hey, I'm just using a phrase here as an example! A phrase that may well be better suited to PJ's intent and could be seen as less offensive. I haven't condoned it or championed it at all, nor said it's right or wrong. Just used it as an example.

No, I don't think that equating sexual intercourse to abuse is a laughing matter, not in the slightest. But I am prepared to accept that, as a dick, PJ might have made an ill-considered comment.

I'm not PJ's champion - I'm trying to point out the simple that that lack of respect does not equal hatred, and that women are capable of it too.

Fergus,

He may well have said that, but does it make him a woman hater, a misogynist? Not necessarily - in my book it makes him a pratt.

The man is a ghastly wife-beating misogynist of the highest order and I for one will be saving a rather pleasant claret to celebrate his eventual demise in a post-modern homage to the much-lamented Sandy.

I do find it odd that EvilWillow should be singed out for abuse; the attacks on her have been both vitriolic yet rather lame. Pointing out that PJ is a vile little man who sees women either as receptacles for his pus-ridden micromember or as charladies is hardly being sexist; on the contrary, it demonstrates a fairly healthy ability to appraise facts and draw correct conclusions from them.

leave PEEJ alone!

He voted for Adele.

He's gone up 1000% in my estimations.

Gulag Blues,

"The man is a ghastly wife-beating misogynist of the highest order"

Careful there! You're both being libellious and inaccurate. You can't prove he's a wife beater, so I shouldn't call him one.

I 'singled out' EvilWillow because she started posting the same cut'n'paste crap she's posted in the GU forum - completely lacking in context and, yes, rather lame.

And once again, lack of respect does not necessarily mean that he hates women. Maybe he, unfortunately, still sees women as housekeepers. It doesn't make him a woman hater - just an old fashioned pratt. And please tell me what is wrong with having sexual relationships with women - I think you'll find that women living a bit and having meaningless flings before settling down is actually considered a virtue. Witness the uber cool status of "Sex In The City". Oh dear, hypocrisy again.

It's just too easy to throw in the 'misogyny' word! Overused and rapidly losing its meaning.

He's just a 'bit of a pratt', someone who 'jokes about women' oh, let him be, he's harmless enough. Bullshit. Yes, he DID receive a caution for beating up his ex ... it's NOT harmless, and it IS misogyny, and your defence of it as a bit of a laugh is offensive in the highest. Yep, it really IS no wonder that there are so few convictions for domestic vilence and rape ... 'No, but your honour, he was only having a laugh - no harm done'.

EvilWillow,

You still haven't shown any evidence of his 'domestic abuse'. If he did, he's a sh*t and not worthy of respect. Agreed?

And have I for even one moment said that domestic violence and rape are a laughing matter? I think not. I will agree with everything you say about domestic abuse, rape convictions etc., but I will also say that it is WRONG to treat men differently on the grounds of their sex. I'm all for equality, but not the kind where women can get away with things that men can't. I can see nothing wrong with my approach - I'm fair.

Once again - if he has laughed about women, that is not a crime. If he has rejected someone, that is not a crime. If he makes crude remarks, that is not a crime. If he shown a lack of respect for women, that does not make him a misogynist. And women do the same things. Fair enough?

You're taking this discussion to a whole new hysterical level here, so I'll not join in thanks all the same.

I'll point out once AGAIN - I'm not criticising on account of his sex. I'm criticising on account of his character. You unerstand???????

He's got faults, but I agree with you, let's hope the snowball rolls.

Just a wee bit o' rough and tumble...

I imagine he's the sort of bloke who'd try to shag his girlfriend while she's still asleep. And anyone who wouldn't want to "get naked" with him would, of course, be branded frigid or a lesbian.

I can't wait until this girl he's been holding out for dumps him mercilessly on TV...

Incidentally, *I'm* taking this discussion to a whole new hysterical level??? This, all contained in your first post and directed solely at me ....Jeez, you have some issues, don't you? I take it you're the same vile example of man-hating, misandrist scum ... you're a bitter man-hater and you're simply directing your f*cked up emotions at PJ ... F*ck off and get real! ... It just means his sense of humour differs from yours (assuming you have one, of course)...people in the real world (which you clearly are a stranger to)...What's your problem?...get some perspective! ... For God's sake! ... Christ, you misandrists make me so ill - hiding behind words such as misogyny, sexist, woman-hater etc. Easy isn't it, because most men just sit back, cowed, and let you get away with it.... your incessant, vitriolic, nasty, man hating slating of him is vile....Sexism works the other way, you know. Get help - you've got real problems, lady.Jeez, you have some issues, don't you? I take it you're the same vile example of man-hating, misandrist scum ... you're a bitter man-hater and you're simply directing your f*cked up emotions at PJ ... F*ck off and get real! ... It just means his sense of humour differs from yours (assuming you have one, of course)...people in the real world (which you clearly are a stranger to)...What's your problem?...get some perspective! ... For God's sake! ... Christ, you misandrists make me so ill - hiding behind words such as misogyny, sexist, woman-hater etc. Easy isn't it, because most men just sit back, cowed, and let you get away with it.... your incessant, vitriolic, nasty, man hating slating of him is vile....Sexism works the other way, you know. Get help - you've got real problems, lady.

OK, so PJ isn't married so technically he cannot be a wife-beater. However, nothing I have seen or heard of him will deter me from the view that in my opinion the man is a misogynistic **** of the highest order. A case in point would be his stigmatizing Alex with the term "woman"; clearly Alex ain't man enough for him (maybe Lee was, hence his jumping on the anti-Sophie bandwagon as some sort of revenge on her for stealing his love?).

As for your spat with EvilWillow, perhaps it might be an idea for you to continue it on GU rather than here; unless of course you are afraid that the GUers will rally around her and start targetting you, which is perfectly understandable.