Who said I thought he was a perfect human being? I certainly didn't, so your argument is wrong. You stated that he was the archetypal failure in life, this was YOUR point. I argue that he isn't because of the job he holds. I don't think many people will argue with me in that respect. If you choose to belittle that point, I think that says a lot of the type of character you are.

As to this C2DE demographic, I don't pretend to know what that means at all. But, considering you picked up my argument wrongly, maybe your presumption is incorrect too?

Its obviously lost on you.. but the argument was that ‘just because’ you happen to have a position in life that is deemed ‘respectful/important’ does not mean that you personally agree with or subscribe to the beliefs associated with them; in this case Jonny “fans” argue that because he is a fireman he deserves to win £70.000.. Jonny is not in the show to put fires out if you hadn’t noticed..

*Sigh* ..

Errr, no Elysium, I can't remember having read anybody say that Jonny should win purely because he's a fireman. We're just bringing up what is, in our opinion, a bad misjudgement in a statement of yours. This is obviously lost on you.

Personally, I don't want Jonny to win myself, which may surprise you. I think he's been a bit self centred as of late, I would like either Kate or Alex to win.

Assuming that it's not something that George Lucas dreamed up my next guess would be it's a classification of a pigeonhole used by all manner of people who probably think their's start with A. I could look it up to be exact, but it's preciseness tells you more about it's user.

It might come as a surprise for you to learn that much of your likes-and-dislikes/behaviour is quite predictable to a certain degree depending on your background. it is often applied to both advertising and programmes, for example, to create a brand/product/image that will specifically “target” a particular client.. or “target-demographic” (group) .. YOU in this instance.

If you are C2DE then it can be 'argued' that you are in the “working class” group.. and if you are “middle class” then it can be argued you are in the ABC1 group; although this is only a “simple” and not a true representation!

Now, depending on your occupation (skilled/unskilled), position, income, etc.. you become very predictable to the advertiser. Big Brother assembles a group of housemates to ‘target’ different groups to 'keep the viewer watching' and the advertisers [what its all about] 'happy'.. If you are a Jonny fan then the chances are you are not an Alex fan, and visa versa.. because they are there to be mutually exclusive of the other.

For reasons that are far too complicated to go into here – Alex [as an example] is more attractive to ABC1 viewers and likewise Jonny is more attractive to C2DE viewers. The difference is that ABC1 viewers are generally more educated and therefore can make more informed choices ..

The BARB (Broadcasters Audience Research Board) social grades are:

A = Upper middle class (Higher managerial, admin. or professional)
B = Middle class (Intermediate managerial, admin. or professional)
C1= Lower middle class (Supervisory, clerical, junior managerial...)
C2= Skilled working class (Skilled manual)
D = Working class (Semi- and unskilled manual)
E = Lowest level of subsistence (Pensioners, casual workers...)


You have to remember that Big Brother ‘hand picked’ the various housemates to generate tension between groups and to create debate.. argument .. etc...
Last edited by Elysium : 07-07-2002 at 18:42

I've had some experience of similar studies, but not this particular one. Well, going by these criteria, your presumption is definitely wrong, as I am in an intermediate managerial position in my work, so come out in the 'B' category on your list. Better rethink that argument Elysium.

You still have freewill.. don't you? There are too many 'cross-over' points that allow you to support differing characteristics .. for example in this instance... Jonny has a large male ‘gay’ following and therefore if you are of that persuasion you would be making your choice [possibly] on other criteria .. [I am not suggesting you are gay]

( wormy little impostor )

" that persuasion"! god are you living in the fifties? gays rarely have any choice in there sexual orientation, they just are! they also have freewill and are capable of making a decision based on logic. This forum must really disturb you because it is obvious to me that your theories do not only "cross over" but are totally wrong on occassion.

Ive also studied demography Elysium, in a Social Policy degree, and I'm middle class by that definition, as Im a senior health professional. I do, however, live in an area which is predominantly comprised of C2, D and E. The clients under my care are mainly D and E, whereas most of my friends and colleagues are A, B, and C1. Perhaps this gives me more of an objective view of the housemates and a respect for people of all 'classes'.
You could call me a 'Jonny fan', and a 'Kate' fan, but I also like PJ. PJ is probably 'A' by that definition but he's pally with Jonny and Kate, yet has less in common with say Tim and Alex.
Things have changed since these definitions were invented. People from working class backgrounds, such as myself, have more educational opportunities and have to potential to acquire professional qualifications. They go to university and mix with people from a wide range of backgrounds.
Anyway, so why am I a Jonny fan and not a TIm fan then? Why did I dislike Adele but like Kate. Because im able to identify, just like the majority of viewers, the personality traits and outlook on life that i respect and empathise with most. It has absolutely nothing to do with my 'class'.

If Kate goes, Jonny may go all quiet again....and we dont want that!

So Keep in Kate and Vote out PJ!

But your were suggesting I was C2DE.....which I'm not

Does it matter whether someone is an A B or C? What happens if you get in the wrong group by mistake????

Who thought up these classifications anyway?

stick to your guns elysium! i also cannot see what would possess people to be a jonny fan. he's a adult representation of that annoying kid at school that was always shouting over the other kids, desperate for attention and acceptance. and he's nearly thirty now...sad aint it! pj is bland beyond belief and i hotly tip him to go judging by the online popularity polls i've seen. kate is improving daily but i feel she dumbs down to fit in.

Jaz, you've missed the point, I don't think any of us are actually claiming to be Jonny fans, certainly not me, it's Elysium who seems to be classifying us as such.

fair enough. can i just be pedantic for a moment? i don't know about "ronald shipman" but i certainly remember mass murderer harold shipman! as much as i dislike jonny, i think comparing him to a serial killer is a little dramatic!

Unfortunately it does matter to both advertisers and programme makers.. Some programmes for instance are primarily designed to have a larger proportion of ABC1 viewers than C2DE; purely from the “disposable income” point of view [you watch the adverts, you buy the product(s)]. It is quite elitist but unfortunately money talks, and advertisers would rather buy airtime that can be sure of a good return .. therefore the right kind of bums-on-seats need to be watching… everyone else is peripheral.

It was originally designed for demographic surveys, but has now been adapted to apply to various social-backgrounds and has been adapted further depending on the industry that it is being applied to. So, in terms of TV/Advertising it is often based on the BARB (Broadcasters Audience Research Board) social grades mentioned a little earlier. You must also understand that it acts primarily as a ‘guide’ .. although large portions of each demographic are usually ‘predictable’ enough to ‘target’ and therefore remove money from.. and that, after all, is what the Big Brother experience is all about.

Thanks Elysium.

I guess I must be 3CPO then. I've never watched an advert and rushed off to buy the product.

Mind you I do like the red arrows pigs one for the bank.

i think i'm r2d2. i buy everything that i see advertised...rushing off to the shops while shows are on and returning to my tv during ad breaks for my fix. i think all this demographic stuff is interesting but too deep for any bb3 discussion to be honest.

Bring me back a pizza please and a bottle of wine while you are rushing around
Will save me missing anything

Thank You

Rubbish. Jonny kicked up such a fuss cos he thought Alex had told them his name in the diary room.

If his outside life is so admirable, why is he so down and depressed all the time??
Failure? Perhaps he thinks of himself as a failure and he applied to BB3 to prove that he wasnt??
Just a theory.

(fwiw: he's not doing very well)

I do not recall seeing anywhere that Jonny has a "large male gay following".

Are you able to back up this claim?

I should point out that I am not doubting you, but if claims like this are made then I would like to see the proof with my own eyes.

Exactly, look what we did to Adele.

Totally agree

If Kate goes this week my vote goes to Jonny

Oooh, watch out Alex ..you big fake you!