This may not be popular - but "does this face look bovvered" !!

Jill Halfpenny was with out doubt very talented in the last series. But I felt right from the off the she was the judges favourite whatever she did, and they made that very obvious. Denise and Ian lost out big time because of this. I really thought given that Denise was an athlete and had had NO dance experience unlike Miss Halfpenny, that she had made the most amazing progress and would've been a worthy winner!! But they were robbed in both the SCD final and the Xmas Special.

I feel that this is going in the same direction ..........Zoe can do no wrong. 3 points separated her samba with Colins - and he had rave reviews from the judges !! So how come 3 points more?

Its time a man won - but won on an even playing field !!

See, I was a Jill fan, and voted for her quite a lot to win the final of series 2. I thought Denise was a bit clumpy on occasion, and got overmarked by the judges. She also had the advantage of many years athletic training, giving her a level of fitness and endurance that Jill couldn't have hoped to match.

Zoe is getting a lot of praise from the judges, and they do seem to have decided that she's fantastic and are ignoring her mistakes as a result. I like Zoe, I wouldn't mind if she won, but it does annoy me that she doesn't get picked up on her mistakes like others have been. I think she'll find as the weeks go on that the judges marks are keeping her in, and that she hasn't got the popular vote. Certainly from looking around the forums here, there aren't many people supporting her to the exclusion of all others.

Same here, its not that I have anything against Zoe and I'd be chuffed for her if she won. I just think that Colin was better last night and Zoe made a few very obvious mistakes that were overlooked. I know both of them have no dancing experience and its a much more level playing field this series but I do think Zoe has been having lessons with Ian since they did Stictly Dance Fever together.

But Colin and maybe even James and Darren had a better night than Zoe last night and still couldn't beat the judges favourite!!!

Well, I can only speak for myself, but Zoe is popular with me. I did wonder how long it would be before she attracted some forum backlash, but please let's not tar her with the 'Halfpenny' brush ... I'm one of the few who found nothing attractive about her overblown style and felt that Denise was robbed.
I agree that Zoe might well make mistakes which the (experienced) judges don't choose to highlight, but since there's no check-list of essential steps and moves which must be achieved during a dance, surely subjectivity is inevitable and the overall 'look' and 'feel' of the performance and the performers can influence the award of marks?

She really does seem to have attracted some unfair criticism this weekend - viz., the allegations that she has had tuition from a choreographer which were made in that 'quality' paper, The Daily Mirror, via a source too cowardly to be identified.

Well, duh! So what if she did? From watching ITT, I've gleaned that Colin and Erin are so competitive and determined to succeed that they even practice on Sundays .. that Will consulted a ballet master only this week to learn how to avoid looking pigeon-toed - that Dennis and Izabella visited a Samba club to get the 'feel' of the dance .. it goes on and on ... but at the end of the day, it's supposed to be exciting and light-hearted entertainment .. and Zoe entertains me ...

Gotta love your post Aida - can I quote you sometime?

There are no rules about how much training you have or with whom so good luck to Zoe if she gets the extra help.

I think the highest scores ie 9 and 10 should be reserved for excellent performances that could have you almost thinking they are a pro couple and that would include getting all the steps correct for starters. Or at least freestyling it so mere amateurs like me couldn't spot it. I quite liked their performance this week but Zoe fluffed up two lots of basic steps in the routine and it got a bit messy and another 2 moves went awry. She and Ian did well to cover and pick it up again but it wasnt excellent or near perfect for a 9.

Lots of the better rated couples had mistakes or problems - Colin and Erin got out of time on several occasions, James was a bit stiff and had a glazed over expression, Will was bobbing about, and Darren looked a bit camp to me (I think I'm alone on that one ) but Zoe and Ian didn't stand out among them.

Just musing...maybe the powers that be want to keep the girls in and as they know how the public are voting they know that Zoe needs the high marks to stay in. Patsy's performance wasn't fab and I don't know what her fan base would be but she's got The Beek and he has got a rabid fan base so doesn't need the scores??? I absolutely love the show but try to maintain a healthy skepticism about the results.

I think the (experienced) judges should mark objectively on the difficulty, musicality and execution of the dance and let us lot round it off subjectively with our votes based on entertainment, enjoyment, favourites, dresses, chests, snake hips, hormones or whatever does it for you
Last edited by beesknees : 14-11-2005 at 01:54

I like Zoe and Ian, I think, especially in the ballroom dances, they look graceful and elegant and Ian is doing a fabulous job with the teaching and choreography BUT... they are nowhere near as good as Jill and Darren last year. In fact, they aren't even the best of this years crop but after the first dance three of the judges seem to have earmarked them as favourites and the best and don't seem to look further than that.

Bruno appears to me to be the worst for this, Zoe and Ian in their second dance went totally wrong, the beginning was a shambles and it was only towards the end they picked it up, yet Bruno gave them 9!

Zoe has got a great attitude towards the dancing, but I think that denise was a better dancer last year, and she wasn't as good as Jill IMO.

[quote=beesknees]Gotta love your post Aida - can I quote you sometime? [quote]


Laughing and beaming with simple pride .. you can quote me anytime, Beesknees .. so long as I can quote and expand on some of the excellent points you made.

I particularly agreed with what you wrote in your final paragraph about it being our job, as fans, to bring our subjectivity and personal enjoyment of the performances of our favourites to the voting.

I also agree with what you had to say about the 'mistakes' made by several of the celebrity contestants which are often obvious enough for even a non-dancer like me to spot .. what does it for me is how the professional members of the 'couple' cope with the mistakes, recover from them and guide their partners back on track well enough to give an impression that everything went exactly to plan - I really feel that this is something that Erin, Ian and Lilia do outstandingly well.

Oops - I'm digressing .. this thread is supposed to be about Zoe, who remains my fave for no better reason than she seems like a very nice and natural person for a 'celeb', listens to her partner, tries her damndest on the dance-floor and can go from looking as serene as the late Princess Grace of Monaco in her ballroom dances .. and as hot as Madonna in her Latin - unlike Jill Halfpenny who looked like .. erm .. Jill Halfpenny in all of her dances.

I think Craig rates Zoe and Ian above the others as well.
I thought out of all the judges that Craig gives the best view. he never waivered in his view that Brendan and Fiona were crap, he wanted Dennis gone at a time when Dennis really needed to go. He's given some real positive comments about Darren who I think at the beginning he was sure would be awful. Zoe and Ian do shine in the ballroom, but I have yet to be convinced in the latin and was a bit gob-smaked with the marking on their Samba which was definitiely not the best of the night ( although Colin did go a bit over-board with the gyrating)

But isn't it better that someone is able to be themselves like Jill and still make the dance look fantastic, rather than turning into Madonna or someone else to achieve it? And yes, I realise it was meant as a simile rather than an out-of-body transformation!

I think Jill and Zoe are good in different ways, and only at the end of the series will we know who is better as it usually takes the culmination of all the weeks to peak. Also, Jill was fantastic at Latin and Zoe is great at ballroom. If only they could combine into a hybrid - Jiloe!

Totally agree with you, Anita_Blake: The judges are basing their comments re Zoe and Ian almost solely on the way they look together! Sure, they're statuesque and quite striking but, to be honest, the standard of Jill and Darren last year was streets ahead!! I was SO happy that they won Series 2 PLUS Champion of Champions - well deserved!!

Am I alone in thinking that last week (Week 5) was the poorest of the whole series thus far?? Not one single performance stood out for me... The week before, I absolutely adored Will and Hanna's foxtrot. The week before that, Patsy and Anton's Tango was exquisite, but Week 5 was rather flat. Hoping for more in Week 6, especially with the group Salsa!!

I felt that last year Jill was way overhyped from the beginning. I mean im not saying she was bad. She was fantastic especially in 'that' Jive but Denise had outstanding dances as well like the Samba, Paso and Tango. Her quickstep was great. Denise was very good at Ballroom and Jill very good at Latin but every1 seems to have forgotten that and concenttrate on how fantastic Jill. I mean know she won the thing but some kudos to Denise for being ab fab. If Jill and Denise were in seperate competitions they would have both won.

Zoe this year is being over-hyped and like someone else said she is nowhere near Jill's standard. Its blatant favouritism from the judges. Me thinks it might be a fix to get Ian into the final again. There was no way her Samba deserved to be higher than Colin and Erins. I felt she was overmarked for the Rumba as well. In fact the best dance she has ever done was the Waltz. That deserved the four 9s or whateva but no dance she has done since then has made the mark IMO

Personally, I would love to be tarred by the Halfpenny brush.

Haha .. great points made .. Brava!

i agree whole heartedly with this, i do think she has been overhyped and is being favoured by the judges, i thought she was over marked by the rumbaaand i think most weeks there have been better performances that havent got as high marks as they should if compared with zoe and ian's

She was acting very strangely on Saturday. I don't think she'd had a drink - you wouldn't want alcohol before going out - but she looked very hyper.

Preamble/disclaimers etc.

- I don't think any of the couples in this year's competition are as good as the best from last year (i.e. Jill & Darren and Denise & Ian)... yet...

- I like Zoe a lot; if I was into the celeb side of the celeb thing, then I would be a Zoe fan (I'm not, so she is just another dancer).

- Ian is possibly my favourite male professional (from a dancing point of view of course; no interest in that chest nonsense); very elegant/balletic etc.

I think Zoe is being allowed to get away with soso latin dances too; she does ballroom very well, I think other celebs do latin better (like Colin). I didn't think Colin's samba was perfect (bit OTT - unconvincing arms etc.), but I thought he was significantly better than Zoe (who had to rely on Ian a lot). I think the judges are a bit blinded by their look too.

I've gotta say, this is an interesting thread!

I didn't watch SCD from the beginning last series so I'm not sure of the judges' bias towards Jill. However, from what I saw of the series (just over half of it, I think), I don't recall thinking that Jill was being marked over highly. I really did think she was extremely talented.

As for Denise, yes, she was talented but I preferred Jill because I didn't see that 'sparkle' in Denise that I saw in Jill.

Zoe is maybe being marked higher than she should be because she's the favourite of the judges, but I don't think that she's as good a dancer as Jill or Denise. She's probably the best dancer of the third series (with maybe the exception of Colin) but, as I said, she isn't as good as the two finalists from last series.

Last series I voted for Jill in the final. I probably won't vote for Zoe should she get to the final (which right now is looking likely) because if she wins, she wins and if she doesn't then that's fine. I'm not terribly invested either way.

That's just IMO, of course.

If I remember rightly, last year Denise and Ian started off with better scores than Jill and Darren and they overtook them in the third dance (pointswise from the judges) and after the jive they became the favourites.

Me too, I think it's a shame that because someone is popular with judges, the public seem to be feeling the need to turn against them.

Yes. I also think the judges have made comments. I think it was Len who said their performance wasn't 'perfect'. I understand people's frustration if they feel that she isn't being criticised on the same level as the others but currently I do think as a couple they are a more complete package than any of the others. As I've said before I don't dance so I'm not judging on a professional basis just what appeals to me when I'm watching.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. People seem almost too ready to want to pull her to pieces, there seems to be a lack of perspective about what this show is about.

Well said. As you say 'light-hearted entertainment' is what it is supposed to be and that's exactly how it should be treated.

I absolutely agree with this!

I found this week really disappointing. No one stood out for me really. I thought Darren & Lilia were quite good, especially considering how diifficult the dance was supposed to be (not that I'd have a clue!). He looked confident and seemed to be leading. I knew Zoe would get good marks however well she danced. I quite like her, but this bias towards her by the judges, when she didn't really seem to stand out, was unfair.

I'm also fed up of Colins hips! Am I the only one? That's all the dance seemed to be about. Watching them swivel about made me more dizzy than watching the Viennese waltz!

Agree with Indya Livvie and others - everyone seemed to have troubles this week but what a great week for the drama!

You're not the only one Livvie - Colin's grinding was a Vorderman moment for me not helped by an unflattering watermelon pink, diamante encrusted, way-too-high necked, lycra number

Edit: 2 apologies - 1 to all as this is OT and 2 to Carol sorry luvvie it's passed into SCD folklore now.

You know I may be biased but I thought Zoes samba the same as Patsys and some others a lot better than hers but am I alone in thinking noone else sees how clumsy their latin is Also as much as I like Colin he only does one thing and made his samba look out of tune with Erin

That makes sense, but because the scores are just added together and used to put the couples in order, the absolute values of the scores don't matter for the result (so long as the judges are consistent with each other).

I doubt most people would enjoy the show more if the judges were strict about technical matters and focused on the absolute values, so that even the best couples were getting 5 or 6 or 7. There'd also be a greater tendency for tied totals if the judges used much less than the full range.

Remember too that the judges are constrained by their earlier scores (and by the need to leave room for possible better dances later on). If they've been giving out 8s for example, and a later couple is significantly better, then the judges will use their 9s even though they might not have if they could have re-scored everyone instead.

Finally, with any event that has a substantial "artistic" component, there are controversies because some people feel a more exressive performance is rated more highly than its technical qualities are thought to deserve. (You should see some of the disputes about figure skating!)

Given all of that, I don't believe it is at all clear that Zoe and Ian are being unfairly favoured in any way. In fact, I think they deserve their relative rankings in this SCD and that, if anything, it's some of the male celebs who are being given unreasonably high scores by the judges.

BTW, what was the original "Vorderman moment" that has passed into folklore?

I think that Ian and Zoe's dancing on Saturday (and often previously) had tremendous life and character even if there were a few ropey moments. I think there are so many good dancers and so many interesting stories this series that it is hard to have a clear favourite but Ian and Zoe are definetly consistently up there with me. What is all this stuff about attacking someone because they are popular or look good? There was something on one of the threads about Zoe and Ian being like Barbie and Ken and I could hardly believe it. Certainly they do look absolutely gorgeous together but does this mean we should punish them? Let's get a grip on our envy. Zoe is hardly a mindless dolly and it has actually been quite moving to see this beautiful woman, who does not play on her beauty (indeed, at times, seems unaware of just how beautiful she is) turning into such a charming and graceful dancer. Is this bad?

Zoe is good but she was not best on Saturday and it annoyed me her faults are looked over by the judges. Colin was best, again not perfect but better than Zoe and certainly not the points ahead she was given.