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The Osborne juggernaut, Cowell collapsing and Walsh plays catch-up


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Old 20-11-2005, 04:34
SophiesDad
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There was a moment during the results show last night that spoke volumes about the way this years show has unfolded. Kate had just announced that the third of Sharon's three acts, Chico, was safe. The camera switched immediatly to Simon, whose smile betrayed a couple of thoughts. First, that he was no longer sure what this year's show is truly about. Second, and most importantly, that he realised that Sharon is playing him off the park. There are reasons why this is happening.

I have posted earlier that each act need to do two things. First they need to stay out of the bottom two. Second, they must build a fan base.

To stay out of the bottom two, an act must get the song choice (and then the performance) right. Sharon's acts, including Maria have now performed 23 times. Sharon and her team have got the song right on 22 occasions. This is a formidable achievement. The only mistake was 'Brown Sugar.' I'm sure Sharon still has sleepless nights over that one. Andy and Brenda have been faultless, never appearing in the bottom two and even Chico, the weakest of Sharon's acts has managed to win over the judges when he has been in the bottom two.

To build a fan base, each act has to find a style and image that suits them; that has a large enough target audience and then, most importantly, stick with it. The best examples of this by far are Brenda and Andy. These two acts are probably called 'boring' and 'same-old same-old' on this forum more than any other acts. What they are actually doing is building their fan-bases by giving there fans exactly what they want, week after week. Even Chico, who couldn't sing if his life depended on it has found his niche and after last nights performance has more fans than ever.

So what can we say about Team Walsh and Team Cowell?

Well, out of the 12 songs chosen by Louis for Shayne and Nicholas, he has only nailed the song twice, once for each artist. On six occasions, his song choice has been a disaster. After the Daniel Bedingfield song, Shayne had this competition won. I now beleive he has dropped out of the top three and possibly even the top four. His poor song choices have been made worse by a serious of pedestrian, uninspiring performances.

Simon can be forgiven to a point for the Conways song choices, as he hasn't made them all. For Journey South though, the last two weeks have been a disaster. Personally, I beleive the Conways are doing as well with their songs, based on their ability, as they possibly can. They are just being outclassed by better acts. Journey South though need to seriously rethink their songs. After the first 4 weeks, their song choices were fairly well focused around close harmonies. They were finding a niche and building their fans base. After the move into rock and then a move into pop, with two kareoke performances, they have confused their target audience and lost ground.

Another thing. During last nights show, this forum was full of critisicm about Sharon's behaviour. I do not condone it, but consider this. She never behaves badly when her acts are being judged. She is careful to make sure the attention is not drawn away from their performances. Also, her behaviour takes a lot of pressure off her acts. A good comparison is Jose Mourinio, who takes pressure of his Chelsea team by behaving in exacty the same way. Right now, out of the six remaining acts, which three would you say are feeling under pressure and which three would you say are relaxed? Sharon is a very clever lady who is out-thinking her collegues, week after week.

I will have a lot to say on this forum through the week. For now, I would be interested to here your thoughts about my opinions of last night.
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Old 20-11-2005, 10:47
ZipGypsy
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I take your point about building a fan base, but I don't agree with you at all.

Brenda is doing 'samey' and that's fine - it may well keep her 'in genre' but to me, she IS very, very boring. For her, I think there is no room in the market. Why buy Brenda when so many other well established singers have been doing this stuff for years?

Andy - do we need another crooner? We thought so last year...look at Steve? Andy is tooooo samey also.

As for Chico - I think he's appealing to many people - I like him now and I hated him at first. But it's more about his energy and perfomance than his vocals. I think that Chico gets to you in an unexpected way. He's like a court jester - he'll never be the king, but the king wouldn't be the king without him....if you know what I mean?

Journey South - the last two weeks a 'disaster'? Are you serious? They were amazing with these songs and they can rock. They may not always choose to rock, but they do it soooo well. It must just be a matter of taste and opinion, but I think you are so wrong here.

IMO, there is a clear need in this comp to show versatility....it appears to be one of the things that gets you 'points'. I didn't like Maria - but she was good and could do 'versatile'. I think JS are one of the more versatile acts in the comp. I personally like versatility.
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Old 20-11-2005, 11:21
kobiashimarux
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Originally Posted by SophiesDad
There was a moment during the results show last night that spoke volumes about the way this years show has unfolded. Kate had just announced that the third of Sharon's three acts, Chico, was safe. The camera switched immediatly to Simon, whose smile betrayed a couple of thoughts. First, that he was no longer sure what this year's show is truly about. Second, and most importantly, that he realised that Sharon is playing him off the park. There are reasons why this is happening.

I have posted earlier that each act need to do two things. First they need to stay out of the bottom two. Second, they must build a fan base.

To stay out of the bottom two, an act must get the song choice (and then the performance) right. Sharon's acts, including Maria have now performed 23 times. Sharon and her team have got the song right on 22 occasions. This is a formidable achievement. The only mistake was 'Brown Sugar.' I'm sure Sharon still has sleepless nights over that one. Andy and Brenda have been faultless, never appearing in the bottom two and even Chico, the weakest of Sharon's acts has managed to win over the judges when he has been in the bottom two.

To build a fan base, each act has to find a style and image that suits them; that has a large enough target audience and then, most importantly, stick with it. The best examples of this by far are Brenda and Andy. These two acts are probably called 'boring' and 'same-old same-old' on this forum more than any other acts. What they are actually doing is building their fan-bases by giving there fans exactly what they want, week after week. Even Chico, who couldn't sing if his life depended on it has found his niche and after last nights performance has more fans than ever.

So what can we say about Team Walsh and Team Cowell?

Well, out of the 12 songs chosen by Louis for Shayne and Nicholas, he has only nailed the song twice, once for each artist. On six occasions, his song choice has been a disaster. After the Daniel Bedingfield song, Shayne had this competition won. I now beleive he has dropped out of the top three and possibly even the top four. His poor song choices have been made worse by a serious of pedestrian, uninspiring performances.

Simon can be forgiven to a point for the Conways song choices, as he hasn't made them all. For Journey South though, the last two weeks have been a disaster. Personally, I beleive the Conways are doing as well with their songs, based on their ability, as they possibly can. They are just being outclassed by better acts. Journey South though need to seriously rethink their songs. After the first 4 weeks, their song choices were fairly well focused around close harmonies. They were finding a niche and building their fans base. After the move into rock and then a move into pop, with two kareoke performances, they have confused their target audience and lost ground.

Another thing. During last nights show, this forum was full of critisicm about Sharon's behaviour. I do not condone it, but consider this. She never behaves badly when her acts are being judged. She is careful to make sure the attention is not drawn away from their performances. Also, her behaviour takes a lot of pressure off her acts. A good comparison is Jose Mourinio, who takes pressure of his Chelsea team by behaving in exacty the same way. Right now, out of the six remaining acts, which three would you say are feeling under pressure and which three would you say are relaxed? Sharon is a very clever lady who is out-thinking her collegues, week after week.

I will have a lot to say on this forum through the week. For now, I would be interested to here your thoughts about my opinions of last night.
Good thoughtful post. I agree with much of it. I do think it was simon who first threw the water last night. I lmao
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Old 20-11-2005, 11:37
SophiesDad
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Good morning ZipGypsy. Thanks for the post. I like your comments and want to reply to each of them.
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Brenda is doing 'samey' and that's fine - it may well keep her 'in genre' but to me, she IS very, very boring. For her, I think there is no room in the market. Why buy Brenda when so many other well established singers have been doing this stuff for years?
Your probably right. I never said she wasn't boring (although actually, she has become my favourite) I cannot see a market for her as a recording artist and I wouldn't buy her stuff either. I can however see her in the final, based purely on her ability to get people to pick up the phone.
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Andy - do we need another crooner? We thought so last year...look at Steve? Andy is tooooo samey also.
Again, I agree with you, Andy is not to my taste, he is however , like Brenda staying out of the bottom two and building a fanbase. It's difficult to be sure, but my ears suggest he usually gets the best audience reaction to his performances. This is not about whether we need another crooner, its about getting enough and an increasing number of people to pick up the phone.
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
As for Chico - I think he's appealing to many people - I like him now and I hated him at first. But it's more about his energy and perfomance than his vocals. I think that Chico gets to you in an unexpected way. He's like a court jester - he'll never be the king, but the king wouldn't be the king without him....if you know what I mean?
I know exactly what you mean. Chico is the suprise package of this show. You have to take your hat off to Chico, Sharon and the team for the way they are packaging him, don't you?
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Journey South - the last two weeks a 'disaster'? Are you serious? They were amazing with these songs and they can rock. They may not always choose to rock, but they do it soooo well. It must just be a matter of taste and opinion, but I think you are so wrong here.
I never said they do not rock. Not only do they rock, they do it really well. My point is, they need to be building a loyal army of voters. They neet to keep all of the voters from the previous week and get more. Do you really think all of the people that voted for 'Desperado' also enjoyed and voter for 'Livin on a Prayer?' Do yo really think everyone who voted for 'The first time ever I saw you face' also for 'Angels? Being able to do rock doesn't mean you should do it. Their diversity is killing them.
I love Journey South. I want to see them in the final, but there's a name for the relationship between Journey South and the voting public; it's called 'getting it wrong.'
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
IMO, there is a clear need in this comp to show versatility....it appears to be one of the things that gets you 'points'. I didn't like Maria - but she was good and could do 'versatile'. I think JS are one of the more versatile acts in the comp. I personally like versatility.
Versility is fine, if you take your fanbase with you. Andy and Brenda have show little, but 'just enough' versitility to keep existing voters and get more. Journey South are saying hello to new voters each week but goodbye to existing ones, because of their unneccesary 'versility.' I like versitity too, but it will not win this competition.
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Old 20-11-2005, 11:42
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Yes, good post, well thought out. I am inclined to agree, but this certainly doesn't make me like Sharon any more. In fact, since she won some popularity contest she's been unbrearable. I only know about the popularity contest because she keeps gloating about it.

Still, I suppose if the winning is more important than the way the game is played, she'll do okay, and maybe even achieve her goal. Just out of interest, what's in it for her if one of her acts wins?
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Old 20-11-2005, 11:44
FrankieB
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Good posts all round.

I can only disagree with the issue of Brenda as a recording artist as vocally and visually, she is my favourite performer.
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Old 20-11-2005, 11:49
ZipGypsy
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Originally Posted by SophiesDad
I never said they do not rock. Not only do they rock, they do it really well. My point is, they need to be building a loyal army of voters. They neet to keep all of the voters from the previous week and get more. Do you really think all of the people that voted for 'Desperado' also enjoyed and voter for 'Livin on a Prayer?' Do yo really think everyone who voted for 'The first time ever I saw you face' also for 'Angels? Being able to do rock doesn't mean you should do it. Their diversity is killing them.
I love Journey South. I want to see them in the final, but there's a name for the relationship between Journey South and the voting public; it's called 'getting it wrong.'
*Puts hand up in the air*

I am one of those voters who loved all of JS's choices.

I love The Eagles and I love rock (don't like BJ though - but I can appreciate that JBJ can sing). I would say that the Williams and Flack numbers are 'classics' - no harm in anyone doing these. I, for example, like both songs.

Personally - I miss the Pop Idol format of themed weeks. I LOVE to see the singers stretched and challenged. The X Factor format isn't as challenging.
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Old 20-11-2005, 12:00
echo
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Good OP and I agree. Though I question how long Andy & Brenda can draw in the votes in sufficient numbers as the weeks go by with these older song choices. They may have exceptional voices but I think they might be niching themselves out of the competition. I think they need to update their song choices, the same style but more current to attract the younger voters.

Andy's performance last night night was supreme, proabably the best in the series, but I wonder it actually poled more votes than Shayne's mundane/poor effort.
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Old 20-11-2005, 12:31
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Watching the repeats, I don't understand why Ben Shephard was saying to Shayne, "There is a lot of pressure on you now." Surely there is always pressure because he is singing for himself?

Chico is a one trick pony who will fall flat on his face after The X Factor. Once he sees public opinion waning, he will do more "out there" things to try and bring the spotlight back to him. He believes his own hype and he is setting himself up for a really big fall. As for Brenda, I just can't see her winning this. She has a talent and a voice but she is suited for the stage. Will 10 year old girls, who this show is aimed at, run out and buy her single? Andy should wear a smoking jacket and smoke a cigar. He should be in one of those clubs with dim lighting and scarlet red walls with him sitting on the stage in front of a band. He really is cabaret and not suited for the mainstream.

The Conway Sisters cannot sing. They cannot hear each other and they cannot harmonise. Why they think they know better than Simon is beyond me. Journey South can sing but as some strange double act with a guitar................oh, that's what they are. I like them - especially the one without the guitar. Very sexiful. However, if they rely on that guitar and the seats I may just have to look past them.

Shayne has it all. A fan base, fabulously good looks and a voice. He has been singing songs which match his voice perfectly but, perhaps, he should try something a little different to explore his range. It is not surprising he has not come top of the public poll - if anyone good, a lot of people believe there is no point in spending money on voting as he is sure to be there. That, as we see with Maria, is not always the case.
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Old 20-11-2005, 13:10
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Thanks.

I love thoughtful threads.

I'll get back to this one tonight.
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Old 20-11-2005, 17:53
SophiesDad
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Originally Posted by echo
Good OP and I agree. Though I question how long Andy & Brenda can draw in the votes in sufficient numbers as the weeks go by with these older song choices. They may have exceptional voices but I think they might be niching themselves out of the competition. I think they need to update their song choices, the same style but more current to attract the younger voters.

Andy's performance last night night was supreme, proabably the best in the series, but I wonder it actually poled more votes than Shayne's mundane/poor effort.
Your right. Andy and Brenda have a limited number of potential voters, but they are very good at getting people to pick up the phone and vote. There are more potential voters out there for Shayne and if he can get back to the killer performances, he will cruise back to the top. If he doesn't get the song choice and performances right, we will see him in the bottom 2 within 2 weeks
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Old 20-11-2005, 21:34
lulu g
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Originally Posted by cifpower
Will 10 year old girls, who this show is aimed at, run out and buy her single? ...
But is it really? There are three categories - 16-24, 25 and over, and groups. Only one of these is likely to appeal to 10-year-old girls. And look at who is left now that we are just past the halfway mark in the finals (in the sense that eight out of fourteen acts have been eliminated) - two groups (neither of which would appeal to 10-year-old girls), three 25 and over acts, and only one 16-24 act. This suggests to me that the viewers/voters are not predominantly teens and preteens, as we might have expected.
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Old 21-11-2005, 13:09
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Backstreet Boys are all over 25 yet they rely on teens to buy their songs. If the kids are sidelined, they will fail. That is what happened with Steve. G4 succeeded because they appealed to all ages. I watched the Proms in the Park this year from London. When G4 came on, the front row were all 8-15 year old girls screaming and waving banners. Only Shayne could get that.
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