My dislike for Tim is based on his arrogance,his attitude to women, his attitude to ethnic minorities, disabled people as evidenced by his comments,anecdotes and so called racist ' joke ' .
Hatred would be wasted on Tim as he's too conceited to take in any criticism. And hatred is best saved for people in the real world who destroy lives rather than wallies on TV gameshows !

Tim isn't posh nor upper class but I'll give you the "twit" bit

Tim *is* an arrogant, ignorant bigot. I don't hate the guy but nor do I like him. I felt a bit sorry for him when he first arrived as I figured he'd be the odd one out due to his late arrival in the house and I've really tried to like him but there's nothing there to like.

yep,

he had deceived her wrt his hair colour

Er, I'm not "assuming" anything , other than the Truth of what TIM says:
just to restate:
1. Tim IS in the house
2. *TIM* himself said he went against G/F's wishes.
3. Conclusion: not taking much notice of her wishes.
If Tim is LYING about 2, then I'm still anti -him
He also lies about lots of other things, but MY reason for dislike is his clear lack of respect for women.
I didn't mention anything about whether the break-up was true or not as I have no idea: I said I would be happy if it were true, BECAUSE I don't like him, not the other way around.

As for the hatred on this board etc, brilliant as I am, I can't comment on why others feel the way they do, so please don't ask me to, it just looks silly.

JAck

Jack,

But you are assuming, you said it yourself in your mail, quoted below;

You want reasons. I'll give you reasons...
These are the facts as I understand them.
1. Tim went into BB house
2. His girlfriend didn't want him to
3. Therefore, he went against her wishes and went in the house.

My arguments (1 & 2) *may* be wrong, but assuming they're right, then my conclusion (3) is correct...................

You say yourself that those are the facts as you understand them. How do you know he didn't take much notice of her wishes, you don't know the conversations she had, so that's another assumption.

Er, right, the assumption was (and ALL logic works like this) if the premisses are true then the conclusion MUST be true if the arguement is VALID. The only thing that might NOT have been true is the assertion that the G/F was against him going in, but as TIM SAID she was against it (during a little crying session in the D/R) then I decided it was more than likely TRUE.

I take it he didn't take much notice (of her wishes) as HE'S IN THE HOUSE (or do you argue with that ?(and DONT MENTION SCHREODINGERS (sp) CAT!!!!))

Jack
And WTF are you picking on me? you haven't criticised anyone else's reasons. This is getting boring

Not picking on you, I just don't think your reasons were valid. Plums, on the other hand, were and I fully accept them. I don't think anybody else has come up with any.

WTF are you to tell me my reasons aren't VALID???

You asked why we don't like Tim: I answered that it's because of his lack of respect for women. (esp his G/F)
That's all there is to it.
You may like him, or you may have different reasons for not liking him, but as long as my reasons have basis in fact and are logical and consistent then they're just as VALID as Plum's or anyone's.

If there's a flaw in my LOGIC, please let me know. Otherwise, live with it.

Jack

Hmmmm - so has she dumped him or not?

LK - sober as a very sober (lady) judge tonight. but still doesn't know the answer

and minging foot still minging !

I think we'll agree to disagree by the looks of things.

Your original reasons were based on assumptions, they weren't based on fact. You assumed that because Tim was in the house when his girlfriend (or ex girlfriend by the looks of things) didn't seem to agree meant he didn't respect her. I just prefer to have the full facts in front of me before deciding whether I dislike somebody for reasons like that.

So, as I say, let's just differ and live with that.

For a wimp who is very concerned about losing his girlfriend....it wasnt exactly a smart move to make a £50 bet with his "mate" that he could "pull" Kate.

I do so hope that he will be evicted this Friday - then he can go back to his "boring" life.......awesome!!!!!

Right.
Okay, but to me to do a MAJOR thing like going into the house is, when your partner disagrees IS disrespectful. But if you think it isn't then that's fine (but I'd like to know what you think IS).

However, I actually can't think of a scenario where doing something that big against your partner's express wishes is anything other than not very nice. But maybe that's just me.

But I also think other things said and done do indicate that Tim does NOT have a healthy respect for women, like a lot of men, and that and his lying (about his hair colour etc) creates a picture for me of someone I wouldn't like much in real life.

Did we establish whether she ACTAULLY had dumped him? I have been away (in the middle of nowhere, Sussex, and I've only got the Sunday Times today (still not read) so feel completely out of touch.


Jack

Jack,

I was thinking along the lines of the possibility that Tim and Johanna had discussed it and Tim had gone into the house maybe things had worked themselves out to a certain degree with some doubt (remember, Tim went into the house with very short notice....sure, the possibility was always there, but it's different when it happens for real). In the meantime, Johanna has decided it's more of a problem than she originally thought. This is only a possibility, but an example of why I'd like more facts in front of me before I decide.

I don't think he's lied about his hair colour, in fact he freely admitted to PJ that he dyed it. He just prefers another colour (hell, I used to have mine dyed purple, lol, now I'm a PJ lookalike).

As to whether they've actually split up....I have no idea at all. Does anybody know exactly where this news has come from?????

Aahhh yes, but remember it was Tim in the D/R who was saying that he'd gone in against her will, so it obviously hadn't been sorted BEFORE he went in: maybe he thought (rather stupidly if my experience of women is anything to go by, which it isn't (yes I know totally illogical: that the affect girls have on me)) that she'd come round to his viewpoint after he went in?????? Dunno

The dye thing: When Jade (then PJ) asked him what colour his hair was naturally, he said BROWN if you recall. Not Ginger.
It's his whole facade-ness that I don't like, his crap beliefs in the effect of money, lack of 'spect for lovely women, calling Kate easy, NOT LIKING Sophie (!!!) and all sorts of tosh he speaks that annoy me.

I saw it in a "tabloid" I think: NOT MINE I hasten to add, so I didn't get to read it properly.

Jack

It was in the sun that she had dumped him and gone back to sweden and also tims mother lied to him about him being there as a local newspaper where his parents live had an interview with the father and he said that she wasent at the party during the phone call to tim.

Personally I think he is an arrogant, self obsessed, lying, boring, two faced, posh, stuck up, b****** and I personally wouldent give him the time of day.

I guess you don't like him much?

Nope i've met his like before and they just make me want to tear there heads off which is an emotion I dont normally feel. this enough to make my mind up on the subject.

I sooo agree with a lot of Father Jack's reasoning. The way Tim treated Sophie was despicable. If you'd watched it on E4 as it was happening (i.e not the cut down edited C4 version) no one could really support the guy. His attacks on Sophie were vicious and completely unnecessary. He did it purely to try and make himself look better to the other housemates. He's a completely selfish, self serving person, who has proved time and time again that he has no idea of how to interact decently with people.

In addition when first put in the rich side by himself he tried to instigate a revolution which he had no intention of following if it jeapordised himself in any way.

There are so many reasons to dislike the guy, it's not even funny. If you want me to start Richey, just ask, but I assure it'll be boring. As boring as Tim is.

It's funny you should say that: I was initially trying to keep to a minimum of reasons (so as not to be boring) but my head got bitten off and ended up having to keep explaining myself (and bored even myself) anyway, so I might as well have listed a load!!

night night

Jack

Tim n Alex in the bedroom...

Tim possibly sees himself as Nasty Nick character

Tim also infers he thought (before entering) by this stage the HMs would be himself, Alex, Adele, PJ & Sandy

They are (whoops) agreeing to back each other up (we're same team) in a confrontation with Jade.

Alex expands on possibility of walking with Tim on friday.

This is bad news for Alex - he does seem to see Tim as social superior (only just..but enough)

convo turns to Kate (Alex) is worried about her and would like a second opinion which Time furnishes him with...Alex thinks she is an 'actress'

Jades brought into it (copies Kate)

Jonny (clown) was dismissed a while ago

Tim drops a bollock and mentions his prediction to BB re who would be in last weeks - this time Spencer is included and Sandy dropped.

Alex smartly picks up on the pivotal role PJ played in being a bridge between slobs/nonslobs and how his eviction has affected things.

I thought (very wrong) that Alex had completely made up with Kate after the bathtime Japan convo...noooo ! it's Alex & Tim versus the rest 100%

TOTAL Alex/Tim bonding now ...they are discussing the finer details of supercars

Lambo Diablo - exhaust and headlight detailing

Alex is going to have to be one tough MF to get through the next few days.

Kate's decided (IMHO) that to win she must out-clown the clown Jonny..who is trying to out-clown himself anyway...Jades stuck in the middle...looks like more tears and nastiness this week b4 it all dulls down for the last week when they all try to look like Angels (maybe).

er, is this the right thread for this??

Dunno he confused the hell outta me, he was on about tim voting out sandy or something when it was him who took sandys place ??????????????????

Was going to say the same thing FJ ... but sometimes I think I say too much about nothing!

Hmmmm.....
Having read through the previous posts varying from light-hearted comments to vitriolic declarations of hatred, there are some things that should be clarified. First, the interpretations made of Tim's behaviour are clearly biased so that almost anything he says is seen as another indicator of his 'bad' character. Second, some of the accusations levelled at him are paradoxical in nature ie. "I loathe Tim and his type".Third, the problems people have with certain language is ingrained within society. So lets deal with everyone's enlightened interpretations first...

The consensus seems to be that Tim is a VERY bad person, deserving of labels such as "w***ker", "homophobe" (used almost as a swear word) or being someone worthy of being "loathed" and "despised". Now it may well be true that he has said a joke that is abhorrent or used the word gay in a derogatory way. Yet we all know people who are prey to making similar comments and even if we might not laugh we don't judge them purely as a result of their mistake. It seems as though Tim has become the bullying-boy of not only this discussion board but the national media as well. And of course we have to ask why. Could it not be that people wanted to dislike him from the very start due to his upbringing, class, recognition of his class and general cockiness? When others, who we consider not to be of his "social standing" do the same we just say, 'what an idiot' or ignore it. Perhaps if you think for one moment you can appreciate that what he has done cannot corollate to the judgements made of him and that our hasty decision to hate him is unfair at best and more likely wrong.

You might not be convinced, allowing the lynch-mob mentality to influence you beyond reason. Consider, then, those who "hate his type", call him names which in themselves are generalisations and decide to loathe him. Now is that not a bit hypocritical? A person who loathes any "type" is being prejudiced, deciding to pidgeonhole everyone that they see into convenient groups, yet they loathe that "type" for being prejudiced. If that judgement is made, they themselves are doing the same thing! Similarly, think of the word "posh". What does that mean? Are we talking accent or perhaps income, or maybe even the heinous crime of being different to the majority? That is to say, by judging Tim as "bad" are we not doing the same thing that we loathe him for?

Finally, to add to the debate on words and their meaning, let's fill in some gaps;

Sexist words; tw*t, c**t, b***h, cow etc. (notice how male genitalia words are always more "jokey" than female ones)
Racist words; kraut, frog, yank, dago, any nationality preceeded by the word "bloody" eg. bloody Germans
Misc; ba***rd, moron

We all use at least one of these words when we talk about others. Fact is, by assasinating Tim's character on the basis of him using a particular word is surely unfair as long as the language that we are born into is as prejudiced as English (or any other language for that matter) plainly is.

I'm not a big fan of Tim's but I would like to think I see him as a human being not a thing to to be despised. By throwing hatred at him we can only do what we accuse him of doing........


Can

P.S. And then we have the "G-Day". Yes, he dyes his hair. BUt 1) loads of people joke about ginger people and 2) alot of others dye their hair as well, men and women