Since I don't feel what happened to Jade was in anyway molestation (harrasment/assult maybe) then this wouldn't be either...I didn't see this bit at all so feel even less able to coment...generally though, it still depends on what was in Kate's mind at the time, and I can't tell that...I'd have thought Kate would be more liable to complain should she have felt seriously about it though...

Jonny started all this type of carry on he pulls the duvet off
kate bed and she sleeps in the buff.
Jonny throws Kate into the pool she shouted no but he
had to do it but Jonny wont let any girl do that to him.
He`s pathetic

By the way listening to Jonny the other night how long
did he say he had been engaged for?.................................

Did they??? I didn't see this bit, I guess it would change the dynamics of the situation to some degree, guess this is part of the point that some have been trying to make here, unless we know what people are thinking and know the FULL story then its difficult to make judgement,

good discussion and some interesting insights all the same.

I've changed the title of the thread. It is in no way intended to lessen the incident but instead to remove possible legal issues that could arise.

mromega

This is very true...anything is harrassment if it makes you feel harrassed. I've worked in a factory with all women and been the butt of their jokes myself...I laughed it off, and it didn't bother me, but if it had, that could easily have been harrassment. The point is, it didn't bother me, so it wasn't. It _was_ stupid and risky behaviour in case the butt of the joke doesn't see it that way, and that is the same in this case.

Personally, I think Jade laughed it off and will think little more about it unless people make more fuss about it and make it a major issue when she's evicted. That in itself would then be construed as harrassment to me...in the same way that constantly reminding someone of an embarassing incident from their past would be.

Hmmm intereresting to see the points of view of 2 different DS personnel on this forum ..... Emzi (on this thread) vs Mr O (on http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...threadid=30786)

I do completely understand that when posting to these forums that the individual reporters are expressing their own personal points of view, but

It does make me wonder as to the veracity of the actual hourly reports themselves - which I rely on when having a shower, cooking dinner, etc.

Can reporters be totally unbiased - no - I don't think so.

mags

ps ... If something is to be deleted - please just delete this message and not the whole thread

I think the new thread title better fits the facts as "molest" has a definate meaning which doesn't apply here, so good decision to amend it IMO.

Harrasment is only harrasment when it goes beyond a persons limit. With that I mean, in social situations with friends you get to learn their limits, how far you can go in certain situations.

While this incident has gone beyond the limits of many forum members, it appears that it hasn't with Jade. If as said by another member after Jade had put her bottoms back on they turned their attention to Kate and Jade took part in it, then it would appear to me to be simple horseplay. Jade has certainly not been the innocent young girl in the house. Her incesant questioning of PJ and eventual cuddling up to him was too much for me as was her bullying of Sophie.

I don't do the hourly reports, my main role is the BB in Pictures section. DS Reporters try not to make personal comments in reports, obviously they are occasionally going to slip through but for the main the reports on the main site are totally impartial and will continue to be so.

Quote:
“Harrasment is only harrasment when it goes beyond a persons limit. With that I mean, in social situations with friends you get to learn their limits, how far you can go in certain situations.

While this incident has gone beyond the limits of many forum members, it appears that it hasn't with Jade. If as said by another member after Jade had put her bottoms back on they turned their attention to Kate and Jade took part in it, then it would appear to me to be simple horseplay. Jade has certainly not been the innocent young girl in the house. Her incesant questioning of PJ and eventual cuddling up to him was too much for me as was her bullying of Sophie.”

Well said and succinctly put.

This is another case of C4's editing only telling half the story as on numerous occasions this series.

Oh Dear Mr O - here we go again, this is not really intentional but - you seem to respond to threads I also respond to

You said:


Harrasment is only harrasment when it goes beyond a persons limit. With that I mean, in social situations with friends you get to learn their limits, how far you can go in certain situations.

Does this actually mean you condone what happened in the pool yesterday?? I think it does if you look at the link I posted above. You do admit though that
While this incident has gone beyond the limits of many forum members, it appears that it hasn't with Jade.

You also said:
If as said by another member after Jade had put her bottoms back on they turned their attention to Kate and Jade took part in it, then it would appear to me to be simple horseplay.
But this was obviously not the case - Jade's bikini bottoms were thrown out of her reach unless she wanted to 'show all'. At no point in this 'game' was the focus turned on Kate which makes this point obsolete.

You also said:
[i]Jade has certainly not been the innocent young girl in the house. Her incesant questioning of PJ and eventual cuddling up to him was too much for me as was her bullying of Sophie.[i]

You are changing your own rules here - this thread is about Jade and the happenings in the pool.

I happen to agree with your insinuation that Jade is not as - well, what could you call it, innocent, as we believe. But - I do think Jade is more streetwise than many posters to this forum and could run us around in circles when it comes down to it.

But ... it all comes down to when does NO ....mean NO.

Obviously never when Kate/Jonny are involved with Jade. Are we supposed to take all that happens to Jade with a pinch of salt just because BB are supposed to be looking out for interests (as she believes after her talk with Mr. M.)

[quote]Originally posted by magsiesss
[b]

Oh Dear Mr O - here we go again, this is not really intentional but - you seem to respond to threads I also respond to

You said:


Harrasment is only harrasment when it goes beyond a persons limit. With that I mean, in social situations with friends you get to learn their limits, how far you can go in certain situations.

Does this actually mean you condone what happened in the pool yesterday?? I think it does if you look at the link I posted above. You do admit though that
While this incident has gone beyond the limits of many forum members, it appears that it hasn't with Jade.

You also said:
If as said by another member after Jade had put her bottoms back on they turned their attention to Kate and Jade took part in it, then it would appear to me to be simple horseplay.
But this was obviously not the case - Jade's bikini bottoms were thrown out of her reach unless she wanted to 'show all'. At no point in this 'game' was the focus turned on Kate which makes this point obsolete.

You also said:
Jade has certainly not been the innocent young girl in the house. Her incesant questioning of PJ and eventual cuddling up to him was too much for me as was her bullying of Sophie.

You are changing your own rules here - this thread is about Jade and the happenings in the pool.

I happen to agree with your insinuation that Jade is not as - well, what could you call it, innocent, as we believe. But - I do think Jade is more streetwise than many posters to this forum and could run us around in circles when it comes down to it.

But ... it all comes down to when does NO ....mean NO.

Obviously never when Kate/Jonny are involved with Jade. Are we supposed to take all that happens to Jade with a pinch of salt just because BB are supposed to be looking out for her interests (as she believes after her talk with Mr. M.) ?

So, what you're saying, is because a stripper takes her clothes off, and gets naked, it would be ok for anyone to forcefully strip her naked, because she gets naked for a living.

Point taken and your response appreciated.

mags

How do you know? Another forum member has stated in the other thread about this that it indeed did happen. I don't condone this incident at all, I do think that the reaction to it is slightly over the top. I myself would never, ever partake in such behaviour, even for fun.

You seem to forget, the reason that Alex removed Jade's towel, was because he was asleep on the kitchen floor after drinking too much, and he awoke to find Jade trying to strip him. I see that as just tit for tat.

As for Alex simulating sex with Kate the other night. At the time, they were play fighting, and he was sat on her in order to stop her from lashing out at him. It was Jonny who said that it was getting quite sexual. It was probably more a case of him feeling left out if anything else, 'cos after that, he gave Alex a wedgie.

What I find disturbing about Jonny, is that everytime Jade's got naked, he's been involved in it. Whether it's been in the lounge or the pool, he's been there and actively involved.

If ever there was a case for the third umpire then this thread is it. How are we supposed to have a kangaroo court with all this uncertainty

But .... another forum member does also NOT remember this happening .... (see above, same page)

I also happened to be watching at the time ..... and please ALSO refer http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...threadid=30786 to one of my postings in which I referred to this incident ...which at the time I happened to be watching on E4 (I did mention seeing chickens and I also have the C4 program on video) - you also responded to this

If you would like to confirm which posting that you refer to - fair enough .... please do

Looking forward to your response Mr O

Precisely - which is why I have just asked Mr O for the origin of his/her response

*sigh*...that is precisely NOT what I'm saying....see my post about seeing the harrowing video footage of stripper raped after being employed at a 'frat' party.

My point was using this as an example only, that IF we were to judge from Jades self stripping that she were to enjoy being naked on camera than we could infer that she'd actively enjoy the pool incident...HOWEVER, and this is the point, we're not in any position to put our own morality and values on Jade's possible reaction to the pool incident, in exactly the same way as we can't judge how she truely felt about having got naked of her own free will earlier. It was probably a poor choice of example to try and highlight the fact that Jade could have been thinking anything about the event.

If she truely felt harrassed and/or assulted by it (personally my impression was she didn't, but I'm not Jade) then hopefully BB will see fit to talk to her about it if the DR, and they should certainly talk to Jonny and Kate too to advise them that what they did could be leaving them open to a law suit.

I'm obviously referring to the post by Nicola in the other thread. On the C4 show all we were shown was a 30 sec edit of what happened. It is possible that something further happened, we just don't know.

We can judge on this incident from what was shown, but that judgment will have to be open to question.

Yet again I reiterate that I condem the behaviour in the pool, but I am not ready to pass sentence without a full view of the evidence.

i'm sure that Mr O may be able to give a better informed answer than me, but i do recall nicola44 mentioning in another thread that kate then became the target of this 'molestation'/'harrassment'/'tomfoolery'.

you, yourself, state that there was much 'chicken-cooping' so you can only base your opinion on a 30sec edit by bb. while that which i saw distrurbed me i am not so rash as to start the lynching without appropriate evidence and contect.

jade may have been left in the pool without her bikinis bottoms, but she was certainly laughing as they were given back to her (without her having to leave the protection of the pool) by jonny.

the use of inflammatory terms and exaggerated misrepresentation of a situation only serve to undermine REAL claims of harassment and abuse. the threads/posts discussing this particular issue may not be unfounded but are certainly guilty of assumption, and even worse, PRESUMPTION about certain hms based on posters prejudices.

there are a number of people, who if they had worked with/been an abused women, would have had to think much longer than they clearly did before making their postings.

should jade complain (which i doubt) she is well within her rights to do so. if that claim if founded - and that remains a big if - then it will recieve the necessary support.

LET'S NOT START THE LYNCHING YET!!!!

Deerd
uncomfortable with the trivial use of terminology and arguments which undermine/belittle real case of abuse

Supporting Deerd's reasonable stance on the incident.

Jade is the only one who can judge the situation from her point of view and people using extreem language for an incident like this DO undermine that language when applied to more serious cases.

I think Jonny (and Kate) were probably pushing the limits of what Jade would see as fooling, but as long as she didn't think they crossed that line, it was harmless fun, no more...not something I'd do myself or feel comfortable seeing someone subjected to, but not my place to complain...I would have a word with the person after and see if they were OK, and I would have a word with the instigators to say I thought they'd gone a little far too...

Don't worry Mr. O - I found Nicola's thread and have asked her post full details about this.

As you said - we can judge this incident from what was shown (and heard somewhat) .... but that judgement will have to be open to question .... well ......

I was just rather concerned as I had been watching E4 at the time and got the C4 programme on video and want to find out where she/he got the information from - I shall be looking forward to that - perhaps tomorrow if he/she is online.

Perhaps the RealOne feeds are different to what we see at home on E4?