I know I certainly couldn't have danced feeling as ill as Zoe clearly was - whether it was flu or a bad cold, it certainly involved fever, lack of energy and congestion. I'd like to see any of us dance through 2 energetic programs in front of 10 million people as well as she did.

Now that Patsy and Anton are out, I think my heart will be behind Darren and Lilia - but credit where it's due, Zoe did well last night.

You're quite right, I hadn't thought of James' comments as being 'moaning' but Zoe's comments came across as a real whinge.

Perhaps it's the way she says it while pulling a bit of a face, James just 'says it how it is' in that no-nonsense Yorkshire accent.

Maybe the BBC editing team have a little to answer for.

I think it naive to ignore Zoe's deliberate actions of playing up to the cameras and looking for the sympathy vote.
As I've said before, there was absolutely no need to show the tissue to the cameras immediately before their performance. It's tantamount to saying "Look at poor me."
Because she had a bad cold, she didn’t practice as much as she usually does, with all her “extra” assistance from another dance coach. She can usually organise this as she’s naff all else to do. Other competitors, particularly James and Roger Black last year, can’t spend as much time because of their business commitments.

Anyone who fails to see this, has fallen for her deliberate ploy.
I can’t blame her for her determination, as I consider she sees this programme as an “intro” into mainstream TV, in a presenting or some other TV job. It’s just the way she’s attacking it, which I would criticise.

It ain’t “rocket salad” is it?

I agree, the clip we've seen on TV is nowhere close to representative, though I suspect there's something the Editing trying to do.

Anyway, let's stick to the dance. I've watched the dances quite a few times now and I noticed that almost all the dances Zoe did she never apart from Ian, I believe this indicate the fact that she couldn't do things on her own (which she admit and Ian is very clever in hiding this). Even in last night's American Smooth (which Len has made it very clear that they can be apart and then back to make it more interesting), Zoe and Ian were not apart for the whole dance, the only time their body or hands are not together was when their body turn and but they go right back after 1/2 second. If you compare this with Colin's, he was left on his own in quite a few occassions and he did it brilliantly. Also the old issue, the male have to lead. This show their difference - Zoe can only be lead by Ian in the dance floor and can't be apart, while Colin is leading in the floor, I don't think we need stronger evidence on who's doing better.

But that's the thing though, it is turned into a Personality contest .. if it truely was just about the dancing all we'd see would be the show on a Saturday night and nothing during the week - but do we really want that either?
The BBC are past masters at the art of swaying public opinion with a video clip on these kind of shows (don't get me started on the sob stories that went on in Strictly Dance Fever they had to be seen to be believed - from one contestant we had way too cute child, disaproving dad relenting on his death bed and mother coming to see him dance for the first time - guess who won and also the manipulation that went on with the VT for Fame Accademy) so this is easy peasy for them!. By allowing stories to arc through the week it's bound to have a bearing on how the different couples are viewed. It's subtle but it all serves to build up a picture for the viewers. The little sound bites that Claudia says on ITT also help how people are perceived too - like Darren and Lilia are 'the giggle twins' - I'd guess that you could find clips of most of the couples laughing but that's the role that D&L have been given.

I'm really not interested in a personality contest and don't actually have any preferences so far as the celebs are concerned, I've only voted twice this series - once for Dennis and Izabela because he was entertaining me and was trying so hard, despite not being a natural, and once was for Colin and Erin, whose dancing really prompted me to pick up the phone.

I'm not on an anti Zoe crusade. I just find it odd that she can be so familiar with Ian and cling so close when waiting for the votes, and yet not when they're dancing. That's all.

Good luck to them all, and thanks for giving us a highly entertaining show for a change!

What extra assistance? Both Zoe and Ian have denied this. It's also not rocket science to know that you can't believe everything you read.

As for having nothing else to do all day, well doesn't she have a child? It's doubtful she sits on her backside for the rest of the day.

zoe looked really ill i dont think she was making it up, and she did say she didnt want to get the sympathy vote.
i was shocked she was in the bottom 2 this week as i think she did dance well
Patsy was my favourite but now shes gone i hope zoe does well

Do you not think the judges over the last three weeks have tried to manipulate two women into the last four?

Last week the were really pushing for "Pasty".

Trying to be impartial, I'd say that Patsy over the whole series made less of an impression by her over-all performance than James, who did have a dodgy Latin contribution, but his Ballroom was far better than hers.

Despite his huge fan base, he should go out next week.

Zoe did play on the whole cold thing a bit this week but generally she seems like a nice person, Patsy is the one that goes on and on

maybe she didn't have the flu, but she still looked ill and with them having to practise 2 dances that put more pressure on them

being ill meant she had time off but with 2 dances it's obvious they were gonna have trouble

bravo zoe and ian, i still thought you were fantastic!

Come on, she played up the flu thing for all she was worth. After the dance she kept reminding us that she had flu and I'm sure she used it as an appeal to the judges, although I can't swear to that. It really looked as if she hoped that they would give extra marks to reward her for dancing under such distressing circumstances.

I've got to say that both the women left in, have done their fair share of "whinging".
"Pasty" in both last night's and last week's programme, said; "If I could do it again..."

I'm surprised at this, considering she would be used to having worked on the dire "Eastenders", given the poor acting and reported many continuity mistakes, "one take" is presumably good enough for its audience!

I'm no Zoe fan, but I really don't think she was playing up the fact she had a cold. I do admire the fact that Zoe can "turn it on" when required. As noted by her remarkable Tango of 2 weeks ago. But I do think she is suffering the backlash from having Bruno consistently overmark her.

Exactly! Len said the Smooth should be 40% danced apart and 60% in hold - so was Z&I's dance a beautiful, romantic Waltz or a Smooth? And how did they get only ONE point less than C&E who gave a brilliant interpretation of the American Smooth, danced wonderfully? Also Z&I got a 9 and 8s for the Latin, after an uninspiring performance, again almost on a par with C&E's very good Latin. This marking up of Z&I, along with Zoe's constant *acting* - she is incapable of talking without contorting her face and voice like a stroppy teenager - is what has put me off. They do create magic in certain dances, but NOT in everything, and their errors are being glossed over by the Judging panel, so the public vote is turning - after this week, that's very clear.

Ha, ha! Spot on, La Rhumba!!! During her first dance, Zoe came on with the old tissues to dab her "streaming" nose and turned on the old fake cough. During her second dance, she had miraculously recovered - not a tissue, cough, runny nose in sight! Just more facial contortions and clinging on to Ian like velcro! Ugh!

I've just sent my above post in an email to ITT under the heading 'Question for Len's Masterclass' - fingers crossed he answers that point, as I found it confusing.

How you decide to dance that 60% apart section is up to you. Apart just means not in an actual fixed hold. There is no rule that you cannot still be physically connected by your hands, etc.

James and Camilla were always connected too, aside from when they pretty much had to physically let go of each other in order to go on with the next step. Patsy and Anton, aside from the opener, also danced connected. Same can be said for Lilia and Darren. Zoe and Ian were really no different from the others when you look at it. Since a lot of these ballroom dances begin with physically apart sections at the start, are people wondering also whether all the others (with the exception of Colin) have danced simply good foxtrots rather than a smooth, too?

Three things about Zoe really pissed me off this week.

1. Her blatant milking of the illness. Yeah, we all feel ill! We get it! If she was that ill she wouldn't be able to dance at all. She came across like a whiny cow.
2. Her bringing up Erin's comments about her last week. There was absolutely no need at all. The comments were true anyway.
3. Her constant overmarking. Did their latin deserve 9s like Colin and Erin's? Hell no.

And for god's sake woman, stop cinging to Ian like that! You look like an over-clingy faghag! (I'm pretty sure Ian's gay, if he isn't then i'd be worried if I was Zoe's husband!)

I'm curious, is Erin's "truth" worth more than Zoe's "truth"? I'm being serious here.

Why is it okay for Erin to speak out about something she was not happy with, and yet Zoe cannot do the same - even though Erin's comments were about how she didn't deserve something? If anything, I think that gives her the right to bring it up.

Really, this isn't anything against Erin. I like the woman. But let's be fair here and not have double standards.
Last edited by Kiera : 05-12-2005 at 02:57

Sorry. I've tried to stay out of many of the threads to avoid all the controversy that's going on, but I have to say that it's clear that Erin was directing her comments at the judges, not at the couples.

Zoe is entiltled to take this any way she wants & reply; she is human after all.

It just appears to me that people have taken things out of context; as the editing seems to have intended, & tired this into something it shouldn't be.

Darren summed it up nicely, for me, when he said that everyone is supporting everyone else in the competition.

If there are any complaints, please, direct them at the editing teams & not at the participants; they all seem to be getting along great guns.

Glen

(Perhaps La Rhumba had the right idea, again, by e-mailing the BBC with his concerns.)

Those are very fair comments Glen. I think some people bristle more at criticism than others - especially if they're used to getting praise all the time. It's in the interests of fairness that Erin made those comments, I believe, and as you so rightly say, they were directed at the Judges.

By the way Glen, I'm a lady, no really, I am, a *real* lady!
I suppose expressing my love for Lilia might mean I'm on the turn!

Nope! I fully believe in the idea of platonic relationships. There's a big difference between loving someone & being in love with them &, after all. don't we declare ourselves as loving our closest friends, regardless of their gender?

1. That's open for debate - that could equally be applied to James' comments about being unable to get much practice in due to work commitments this week, and previously due to the exhibition thing he was at last week.

2. Sorry, does Zoe edit the show now? she was asked about it during the week, replied and TPTB choose to show it, and why in the hell shouldn't she have a right to reply.

3. Overmarking - yes it has happened, why is it Zoe's fault, is she practicing some Jedi mind tricks on the Judges or something.

Agree entirely Agent Krycek - equally when Bill damaged his ankle/foot we had it for at least 3 weeks - did he get slated???? No.

Erin has had the 'flu' and the week she had it their dances weren't as good, she was asked about it and spoke about it - are they slated? No.

Did Zoe initially bring her illness up? No. Claudia brought it up on ITT on Thursday when she was speaking to Ian and she asked Zoe about it on Friday during rehearsals so the fact is that Zoe didn't bleat on about it at all - she was asked about it and she told Claudia what was wrong.

It is sad that we attack someone simply because she's good at what she is doing.

Puff