But what Jonny doesn't seem to comprehend is that if someone doesn't like him it does not follow that they dislike him.

I find it very worrying that a 29 year old adult cannot understand that concept and that everyone won't be bestest mates. Alex doesn't like him, fair dues, but he has tried to keep the peace by tolerating Jonny ~ Jonny hears that and it's like a red rag to a bull.

Alex and others who've been in the house have tried to join in Jonny/Kate/Alison's idea of fun at intervals despite it not being their sort of a thing, that is toleration. Now in return the Jonny group must learn to tolerate others differences and respect their views of they enjoy.

And its rather childish to say:

"do you walk around saying "I want everyone to hate me, but at least I'm being true to myself"? "

well duh, no-one does but I would hate to think I would ever abandon my own thoughts, ideals and beliefs just to fit in with the majority who *think* they are the norm to make for an easy life.

If Jonny concern at being seen in a good light is all part of his approach to the game ~ the remark came in one of his 'this happened in the last series' anaylsis.

Magsiesss said quote
Exactly ... she told Jade that Tim thought they were stupid.
Manipulative twisting of the meanings. All Tim had said really is that he wished there were more interesting characters in the house such as PJ and Spencer so they could sit and discuss things. Now ... change that to "you are being stupid"

Magsiesss - suggest you read the digital spy live update for 14.41 and 14.43 then tell us what you think Tim meant by saying "I just don't want to act like an idiot most of the time" and "I don't have a good crack in here it is mundane and childish"

Also if you watched last night would have seen Tim say something very similar to Johnny.

Personally, I blame Alex for the bad feeling at the moment rather than Tim (much as I hate to admit it).

At least Tim will talk about it even though he's already admitted that he finds it difficult to discuss emtoional subjects with anyone.

Alex is acting like a sulky child and is throwing the game away.

I've been up and down with Alex all along, but I've finally had enough of him. I think Tim actually deserves to stay in over Alex. Would Alex have lasted this long if he'd been fat and ugly? I think not.

I too blame Alex for the bad atmosphere, Ok so Jonny, Kate and Jades behaviour can be rather childish at times, and not everyones cup of tea, but it's only their mucking about that has made this series worth watching ! Could you imagine what it would have been like in there if Sandy, Alex, Tim and Adele were left for god sake ! Alex needs to cheer up and go with the flow, for a few weeks he was quite funny when he let his hair down and wasn't being so anally retentive. He was begining to grow on me but at the moment he is driving me to hate him and I'm sure others have and will follow.

Jonny has done right by trying to confront the person who has dragged Alex down, he certainly wasn't as bad when Adele was there and she was his main influence, but when Sandy dug his claws into him in the first couple of weeks he was like this too.

I think if he is really that unhappy he should go, along with Tim and leave it up to the others to battle it out for 1st place. Staying just to try and win so the others don't is 1. big headed and 2. spiteful.

What Alex seems to have forgotten is this is a game and at the moment he ain't playing, he's just acting like a spoilt brat.

*rant over*

I dont believe Alex is sulking because he was nominated.
I got the impression that he was already struggling being in the house before the results were known.
Watching him I honestly believe that Alex is having a hard time being there. He said himself that hes become grumpy and is picking on Jade and doesnt like himself for that. (At least he knows where his faults lie)
It must be hard for ANYONE to have to remain in company of people you dont get on with to that extent.
Yes, hes miserable right now.
Yes, hes alienating himself right now.
Yes, hes taken to confiding in Tim.
But the difference between Alex and some other HM's is, he doesnt say one thing to one person, then go tell a totally different thing to someone else.
In my eyes, it doesnt make him vicious. Hes expressing an opinion to someone he thinks of as a friend.

Fair viewpoint to make...but you forgot to slam Jonny too.

Jonny in his shell feeling "down" during the weeks he was nominated.
Jonny: "I am nominating Spencer ... he had a lot to do with me getting nominated last week" (because... "I did NOT cheat in the basketball task and he made a big deal of saying I did." He actually believes in his own lies! Check the camera evidence.)

I take it you would agree Jonny is soooo pathetic too

Did anyone notice when Jonny nominated Alex, he said it was because Alex discouraged Tim from taking the phonecall even though Tim was gagging to take it?? Now I watched the task on saturday night and Tim was certainly anything but gagging to take that call!! Jonny was gagging for Tim to take it. Please note; this does NOT make me an Alex fan or a Jonny hater.

Actually I think even Tim admits he did want to take the call..

So, why is it Alex's fault? All he wants to do, is do his own thing, and join in with the games when he feels like it.

Jonny's the one with the problem. He thinks that everybody has to conform to his meaning of fun, and is just going around asking why Alex and Tim aren't joining in with him. All he's pre-occupied with is trying to make sure that Tim and Alex join in with the games, so that he doesn't look like a ********. If he wants to have fun, NO ONE is stopping him. Him, Kate and Jade can carry on with their infant, school break routines if they want to, and let Alex and Tim live the quiet life if they want to. But, Jonny is flipping the coin to the other side, and blaming Tim and Alex for him not having fun. Jonny's continually bleating on and on and on and on about them not join in. But, what fun are they supposed to join in with? The only thing Jonny's doing right now, is moaning about the lack of fun that he's having.

Exactly!!!

About time somebody pointed this out. The basic thread of Jonny's opinion is that he's wondering why Tim and Alex don't want to join in with the rest of them. It then follows that since they don't want to join in then they are being miserable. They are not stopping Jonny, Kate and Jade doing what they want to do, just as they shouldn't stop Tim and Alex just sitting and talking if they're happy doing that.

I agree
Yes, Tim did admit it, he also thanked Jonny profusely afterwards. and Tim is soooo 'honest' he wouldn't have thanked Jonny if he didn't mean it, er...would he?)

I watched it live this afternoon .... DS can only watch and listen to one feed at a time - I will not retract it. DS also did not mention this afternoon that Tim quoted the puppet task as another example of his not acting childish to fit in with the rest of the housemates - he very cleverly used words that other housemates had used when hearing of the puppet task.

I totally agree.

Oh....My.........GAWD!

If kate and Jonny didn't make any attempt to include Alex and Tim people on this forum would accuse them of trying to 'ostracize' Alex. There's just no pleasing some people!
So, if Kate and Jonny decide to ignore Alex, leave him to 'sulk' is that alright with you?

SugarHiccup,

All they have to do is to ask Tim and Alex if they want to do such and such. If they don't then don't go on about them and make a huge issue about them being miserable so and sos and them obviously having problems with Jonny etc. To me that seems perfectly fair, they wouldn't be leaving them out and, if they don't want to take part, then respect their decision. No problem.

Why does Jonny seem to have such a problem accepting that concept? He seems to have a few problems with this sort of thing, as can be seen by his ever present problem with people nominating him.