I realise this has been mentioned in other threads, but it's such a serious problem deserves its own thread.

Last night, my PVR 9200T lost all its recordings. That's 60 programmes, none of which I'd watched yet, amounting to about 120Gb. I am not pleased, to say the least. I'm considering returning the box as not fit for purpose.

I phoned Humax, who advised me to try reverting to the factory default setting. But, I'm not hopeful that this will fix things. If that doesn't work, they suggest formatting the disk.

Humax claim to have encountered this problem only once before (although I have counted 6 other people on this forum who have also lost their recordings). They say that they were unable to recover the recordings in this case.

Here are the details, in case anyone can spot a common factor that leads to lost recordings:[list][*]I was recording 2 programmes that finished at 10pm, one on BBC1, the other on ITV1. I was simultaneously watching a recording. Another recording was scheduled to start at 10pm and finish at 10:33.[*]This last programme (Sensitive Skin on BBC2) had failed to record the previous week.[*]When I'd finished watching the recording, I deleted it from the recorded-programmes list, and watched the News on BBC1.[*]At 10:35 I went to check the recorded-programmes list to make sure everything had recorded, and had the right name attached. It was at this point I found that all my recordings had vanished.[*]I tried re-booting, but this made no difference.[*]I also tried looking for the files using Media Elinker, but I can't see them.[*]The recordings are still on the disk, because the HDD Control shows only 40Gb free disk space.[/list]

You don't mention whether you are aware that there can be seperate groups of recordings for TV and Radio/Audio. In the early days people pressed the LIST button and found the list empty but were looking at the list of their 'Audio' recordings as per title at top of screen.
Pressing the RIGHT CURSOR showed the TV list to be intact.

Yes, I am aware that radio and TV recordings are on separate lists. I had one radio recording and about 60 TV recordings. I lost the lot.

The circumstances when I lost all my recordings:

- Used the 9200 daily for just over a week (recording & playback), powered off each night
- Schedule recording of Harry Potter film on ITV1 Sat eve.
- Powered off that night
- Sunday morning, no recordings under video list
- Multiple 'power offs' and resetting to factory defaults twice has no effect
- The Hard drive still shows that 20Gb of space is used

I emailed Humax UK support on Monday and have yet to receive a response. I've now accepted the lost recordings so reformatted the hard drive (process took one second).

Had the same problem you describe. One extra element: while the 9200T was recording, I tried to switch to an analogue channel on the TV and discovered that the rf pass-through cable had come out of the back of the PVR - so I had a bit of a rummage around behind the box putting it back in.

In the morning, no recordings. I put it down to moving the box while a recording was in progress, reformatted the hard disk and put it down to experience.

Is there any chance you jolted or otherwise upset your box? It may be the lack of error-checking, but I get the impression they're quite delicate while recording, not at all like a laptop.

No, I used the remote and didn't touch the box.

I've decided not to reformat the disk. I'll phone Humax on Monday and ask them to either take the box and try to recover the data, or give me my money back. I'm not prepared to live with a PVR that records programmes and then loses them.

PS: I tried resetting to factory defaults. It didn't work.

Do you all have the latest software?

About a month ago Humax support line were saying they thought it was something to do with MHEG issue affecting the box.

At the time Humax were working on the fix for the MUX2 related lockup affecting some, and found an issue with MHEG on ITV. They thought the fixing of this issue 'may' also resolve the box being capable of loosing recordings with a similar issue behind it.

We know that the fixing of one problem in the MHEG on ITV does not mean others wont be prevented from locking up the box. On this basis, even if you have the latest software, I suspect the same will will be true with the lost recordings, i.e. something can still make it happen.

Would be worth somebody asking Humax if their theory has moved on since that given a month ago and what they think now/have they got any closer. Assumed everyone whos posted has reported this to Humax.

In the past there have been posts on this by:
quexex
sarahinalrewas
junkpuppets
Lolo 12
Mrcupcake
dradept
SimonHuttToo
nutso

In my case, no. I have not updated the software, and I'm pretty sure I'm on MICOM version 2.02.

One clue might be that the last programme I'd tried to record failed to record the previous week. I noticed in the credits for this programe (two weeks ago) that there was a "HD post-production manager". Does this mean that the programme was recorded in high-definition? Could the conversion down to normal resolution have introduced some peculiarities in the data stream. (A bit of a long shot, I know.)

When I lost all my recordings, it was because the hard disk totally failed. As you can still access your disk (otherwise you would not know how much free space is left), your problem is obviously not the same as mine.

I perhaps should not say this, but if I were in your shoes, I would take the top off, attach the hard disk to a PC and copy the contents of the PVR onto my computer prior to sending it back. That way, you at least stand a chance of recovering the data.

When I contacted Humax, they said they would be able to recover the data if I sent it back, but since the disk was completely dead, I suspect they might have struggled! And in any case, I cannot believe that they would have expended much effort trying to do it.

Just a thought - the instructions do state quite clearly (as far as I remember) that you should only connect the RF cables when the PVR is switched off. You do not say if you did this or not, but I just wondered if doing it with the player switched on could have caused the problem.

The disk itself can be removed from the assembly and inserted in a new one by someone who has the equipment and knowhow so it is not hard to believe.

Surely the programmes must still be on the hard disk? The drive wouldn't just format itself... would it be possible to retrieve them by plugging it into a PC or something? Just a thought...

Thanks for your replies.

HighlySceptical: I connected the RF and SCART cables with the box turned off, and have been using it without problem for about six weeks. I don't want to risk invalidating my guarantee, so I'm not going to take the top off.

ian_uk: I'm sure you are right. All that's been lost is the file table, but that would be enough to make it difficult to recover anything.

I'll phone Humax on Monday and try to persuade them to see if they can recover the data. But I'm not hopeful.

HighlySceptical,

The box was on and recording when I plugged the RF (I plead long experience of abusive hot-plugging in Windows...).

I must have missed the bit in the manual about only moving connections with the power off. But then, ALL appliances say that, don't they? This must be the first I've met that actually meant it.

It is mentioned as item 7 on Page GB4 of the User manual. Probably few people will read it.

AND......................it says on Page GB9 at the bottom that if you power off with the hard drive running it may corrupt the data.

BUT how do you make sure the Hard Drive is not running when you power off the machine to workround other problems?

brian9200T

What about power cuts?
I had 2 power cuts one after the other, the first hit while I was watching live = no recordings at the time, but as we no theirs the live buffer recording all the time. The second power cut hit 10mins later, but I had already switched the machine in to standby. The machine worked fine after words (the power cut happened 24hrs after I got my replacment Humax).
Power cuts are very common in my area and I have spike protectors to help stop power surges killing the electronics. Power cuts are also very common in other rural places in the UK and all over the world (California is very bad). So if the Humax is not designed for power cuts, its not allowed to be sold acording to law, unless they mention it has this problem and that a interruptible power supply must be used.

Hardrives of course are designed for power cuts, how many power cuts do you think the third world has? And most of them have no Interruptible power supplys on their PC.

brian9200T

If an interruptible power supply is used, it would not be able to power the Humax for ever, during a long power cut. Since the Humax is not a PC, theirs no way of it being told to power down. Think about a laptop, when the batterys nearly empty it starts the shutdown sequence.

If their was any corruption of data, it should only be the current recording = it should not effect anything else = so simply delete the corrupted program and then everything should be back to normal. If anything else happens, then that would be real trouble = you should not expect or except to loose all your recordings and be forced to re format the drive.

The User Guide actually states that they are not liable for any corruption of data on the hardrive due to the user switching the power off while the drive is spinning = no mention of power cuts that have nothing to do with the user.

In light of the previous posts...



Please would you ask Humax if turning off the main switch or a power failure:-

1. Can sometimes be expected to ruin all or some recordings.

2. Can damage the hardware even if done while in standby.

3. How the 9200T should normally be switched off to avoid such problems.

4. How do we make sure the hard drive is not active

Brian9200T

I did a bit of research on the internet, and I gathered that it is very difficult / expensive to recover data from disks that have completely died - my scepticism was therefore that Humax would be unlikely to go to such lengths to recover my programs. I would have put money on them sending me a new player and telling me that my programs were irrecoverable.

I lost all my recordings on Friday and have spent the weekend trying to come up with a cunning plan to recover them to no avail ...

I've lost 3 weeks worth of unwatched recordings totalling 98 separate programs (Bleak House, Little Britain, Peep Show, Rome, final episode of Bodies to name but a few).

From reading other posts it seems unlikely that Humax can perform a recovery themselves so I have toyed with the idea of removing the hard disk and using a utility called R-Linux to attempt a recovery (the data must all still be there as the HDD control is showing 12 % free).

Should I attempt a recovery myself or just accept that my losses are permanent ? Is it likely that Bleak House, Rome etc. etc. are going to be repeated anytime soon ? What solution if any are Humax going to offer as this problem for 9200 users is catastrophic ?

kaz7

You have lost even more than me. I lost 60 recordings (~60 hours). The worst thing is losing episodes of a series. I lost 3 episodes of Bleak House, and I hadn't even started watching Rome, but had recorded it all.

I think you are right that Humax are unlikely to want to, or be able to recove the data. The problem with trying to recover the data yourself is that Humax use a proprietary format, so it's unlikely that any recovery software will be able to make sense of what's on the disk.

On the positive side, I suspect that Bleak House, Rome etc. will be repeated. Repeating things seems to be the main function of the BBC's extra channels! (Although, for a bit of variety they sometimes put things on the digital channels first, and then repeat them on BBC1 or 2.)

Someone else pointed out that although hard drives are designed to avoid hardware damage when there is a power cut (They store enough power to withdraw the heads) the system can still fail to close the file properly.

If someone wanted to go down the route of asking Humax to try to recover the lost recordings, wouldnt it be best not record anything else in case it overwrites lost recodings stoed on the disk. Best to arrange it straight away and not use the box while waiting to be collected.

On the basis that the recordings are actually on the hard disk taking space but not actually accessible from the user menu; even watching live tv will buffer and therefore that buffer will be stored on the hard disk. Potentially limiting your chances of recovering the lost files as they may become overwitten or at least partially.

I deliberately avoided recording anything after losing my recordings. But, I assumed that the buffer would be in a separate, fixed area of disk, and let mey kids watch cbbc over the weekend. I'll be phoning Humax this morning - wish me luck.

Well, I've just spoken to Humax. They said there was no possibility of recovering my data, and advised me to format the disk. They did say that if it happens again they will replace the disk drive for me.

They don't really know what is causing the problem, and cannot reproduce it. Basically, they are hoping that it is related to other known bugs, and will be fixed with the next software release.

After changing my mind a few times over the weekend, I've decided to keep the box for now. Generally speaking, it is a fantastic piece of kit that has really changed the way I watch TV. I'd really miss it. But if I lose my recordings again, I'll be wanting my money back.