Arlene trash-talks like a fishwife, has an irritating voice, screeches when someone disagrees with her and acts like a horny puppy in an embarassing Sharon Osborne type way whenever she talks about Colin Jackson.

The programme would be better off without her and Bruno.

Len and Craig respect. Arlene and Bruno, time to go home, "nobody likes you".

Hello Jackster, thanks for your response. One of the reasons I like being part of forums is to be part of a lively debate. I've never been very good at toeing the party line, so when I saw the rage levelled at Arlene, I wanted to try to offer an alternative way of looking at it. I realise I'm one of the few on here who didn't see it in the same way as the majority.

But seeing her called evil, repulsive and a twisted old bag provoked me to respond in the way I did.

I must admit, I'm very surprised at the reaction to what I saw as a mischievous - but honest - comment on her part. She's saying nothing new, bear in mind all the judges wanted J & C to go out last week too.

I was in Arlene's Jazz Ballet classes in the early 80s; I don't know her, nor have I seen her since those days. She was always driven, opinionated and hard-nosed. She changed the way women were viewed in the male-dominated world of dance. I mean as a manager, producer and choreographer. She did wonders for the role of women in performing arts and took on the grey suits. So she's very much a woman, and one who inspired countless others to take up dance and make their mark.

I really think arlene should be replaced in the fouth series by Karen Hardy, because Arlene makes it quite clear that she has favourites. I think her comments on ITT last night were out of order (esp. about Erin). If she was replaced there would still be a nice balance because Karen and Len could be the more technical marking judges, Bruno could still give his unfair high scores and Craig could still give his unfair low marks!

Or maybe she's jealous because she wants to dance with Colin!

Could have a point there thinker

This is just what I was thinking! Even if it wasn't Karen another ballroom/latin person who would judge on those terms.

I'm afraid I loved Karens dancing and her original and entertaining routines too much to want her to become a SCD judge just yet.

Please programme producers ensure that she is a contestant in the next series.

She was great !!

Karen is a fantastic dancer and a lovely person and I would be thrilled to see her back.

But not as a judge. I prefer the judges to be controversial and self-opinionated. I just think that someone like Karen will be a bit too . . . nice.

I've got the impression that a few weeks into this series Craig finally learnt the lesson that if your comments are purely negative and harshly spoken into the bargain, it invokes a sympathy vote from the "floating voters". He's begun to temper the criticism with positive comments and I've come to like and respect him a lot more.

I've met someone who worked with Arlene and he said that she's exactly the same off camera, shoots from the hip and tells it like it is. She does seem to be getting worse than ever as the series goes on though. Like many others I'm finding it uncomfortably rude, rather than honest and candid. I'm beginning to wonder if she's been asked by the programme makers/the other judges/whoever, to tone it down because it's having the opposite effect from the one she wants, but is being so stubborn, it's actually making her even more outspoken.

She's probably a good candidate for the next series of Grumpy Old Women then.

As you get older, you do tend to tell it how it is!

Karen can't be a judge!!! Camilla said she's a scary judge and I bet she is! I don't want to see scary Karen!!!!!!!!

Maybe i should make myself a little clearer....i only want Karen to be a Judge if she does decide to hang up her dancing shoes and retire (i think she wants to extend her family!) then at least we would still get her lovely personality every week!
Of course i would prefer her to dance.....but it is a good idea to get Arlene out and Karen in!

seems we are all experts except the judges. Make you wonder how they keep thier jobs if thay are so rubish.

Yes, like its not possible to have an opinion on judges if you aren't a judge.

Sorry, but I happen to have an opinion on what to me constitutes a good painting and what is a bad painting when appreciating art.

I don't think its rocket science to realise that Len and Craig are good, useful judges whereas Arlene just lacks manners and Bruno is the king of the superlative.

I think Arlene crossed the line with her "nobody likes them" comment, with regards to J&C.

It was a personal attack on James and Camilla and had nothing to do with their dancing. Very poor show by Arlene.

She is meant to be judging the dancers on their dancing skills, nothing else. And to pre-judge her decision before she even saw them dance later today was very unprofessional by her.

Arlene is by far the worst judge on the panel.

Bruno has his faults, he has a tendency to favour the girls and overmarked Zoe and Patsy, but he is usually reasonably accurate with his comments about the rest.

Craig, whislt not winning any awards for tact, has a good feel for the dances and although his marks are low, they are consistently low and apply equally across the board. I usually tend to agree with what Craig says, it's just that I wouldn't put it quite so bluntly as he does.

Len, always sees the good in everyone, and if he says something negative, you can be sure it is justified.

I really have no respect for anything Arlene says anymore, and she really should apologise for her comments from Friday. (She won't , of course). All she has succeeded in doing is ensuring I vote for James and Camilla tonight, although I think that Colin and Erin are by far my favourites and fully deserve to win. Colin is simply superb.

Kevin

That's not what most of us are saying. It's neither constructive nor necessary to be downright rude when making a point, however valid it might be.

(Editing to say it's Arlene that I'm talking about not the poster!)

Hello Kevin - so you're going to vote for James because of what Arlene said rather than Colin who is your favourite and 'superb'?

Colin needs votes as much as anyone else!

And has been for a long while in my view. Back when only 3 judges at a time got to give their opinion I preferred it when only Crag, Len and Bruno gave their views.

Arlene usually gives reasonable marks though.


I just wish instead of wasting his allotted time with vacuous exaggerations he would give more of the comments about method, style and performance because when he does make them they are always valid.


Yes. Again he has learned over the series that there is no point in being just rude. He has gone from rude but constructive to just constructive these days.


I'm sure if she is asked to comment on them she will make out it was all a joke or something ( not what her body language, tone or expression said - it sounded like something her and Norten had already discussed and she was just relating ). "Nobody" being of course her and her mate Norten. Or maybe it will be the viewing publics fault for finding her behaviour offensive.

If she does a straight apology, I will respect her more. If not, I will start hitting the mute button on the TV whenever I see her trap open.

Just wanted to share that Craig is lovely in real life too! I met him yesterday, he was a celebrity judge at our company's Christmas do last night awhich was SCD themed. He danced with us, had his picture taken and was a thoroughly decent chap. Was positive and constructive to all the couples and they all loved the fact that he was so blunt and direct at them.

Back to the point this thread is continuing with, Alrene was out of order last night and, is it me, but last week on the saturday show she was being a complete cow to everyone!

I agree entirely regarding Craig. After the first few shows, I had him and Arlene in the same bin. Both unpleasant, uncommonly rude, full of their own self importance and covering up their ignorance of Ballroom Dancing with the lowest form of wit - Sarcasm.

CRH does seem to have tempered his arrogance and vile remarks to a great degree and even I have to say that I respect him the more for it.

Arlene - well, thats another story. I know Gazbo has experience of the woman and can enlighten us to some more positive effects she has had on the Dance/Entertainment world, but I'm afraid in this arena, she comes across as nothing better than a vile and bitter woman with her own prejudices that she is not professional enough to keep to herself.

Bruno - Oh God just lose him. He has nothing to offer this type of competition beyond gushing forth with sensless diatribe and ludicrous behaviour resulting in outrageously stupid marks being awarded.

Len - he might be soft, quiet and prone to marking on the higher side for fear of dissapointing the contestants but at least he can make his points without insult, has the knowledge to comment properly on the dance and his (slightly) high marking is the same for everyone.

I am afraid that I would have to support the axing of both Arlene and Bruno in favour of people who:
a) know how to behave
b) have a decent knowledge of Ballroom Dancing
c) are at least professional enough to keep their personal bitchyness to themselves.

for Pete's Sake lets have DECENT judges next year!!!

I can't say I'm all that fond of her behaviour on SCD, but she is respected in the business. I tend to take it all with a pinch of salt anyway. I do realise I'm very much in the minority when I say it doesn't bother me that much.

Maybe it's to do with the fact that I don't see any of the celebrities as victims.

They will have known exactly what they were letting themselves in for when they signed their contracts and are likely being paid very well for it. Nice work if you can get it!

I do take your point Gazbo, but exactly what business is she respected in, it certainly isnt Ballroom Dancing, which is where she is putting herself up as an expert in this instance. If she were judging "stars in their eyes" or the "X-Factor" et al, I would completely agree with you, but she isn't, she is adjudicating Ballroom Dancing and appears to have no knowledge of the subject, hence her liking for rudeness and sarcasm, a ploy quite often used to cover ignorance of a subject. I can't see being the creator of a second-rate sleazy dance troup such as "Hot-Gossip" is much to write home about either. What other claim to fame does she have?

Is that supposed to show that Patsy shouldn't have received 8s? Because all Patsy should need to do to get 8s is to be significantly better (when everything's taken into account) than ones who'd get 7, yet not as good as ones who'd get 9.

It sounds like quite a few in this forum would prefer a different SCD, one in which technical mistakes had a much larger impact on the scores, so that even the best of them might, on a good day, get an 8, and in which the judges always had to point out such mistakes, spending their limited time on that, no matter what they thought of the overall performance.

I happen to prefer this one.

What did the other judges give? 7s? 5s? Their scores would have to be pretty far from 9 for Bruno's 9 to be outrageous in comparison.

There's a good article here which gives some interesting background on her.

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/t...ticle20570.ece

The article says: Over the past two decades, she has established herself as perhaps the premier choreographer in British musical theatre.

With respect, I think it churlish to suggest the judges in this particular show should be ballroom experts. The world of ballroom is still relatively rarified (though this may well be changing with the success of SCD).

Strictly Come Dancing is designed to be a populist show, no? If it were Come Dancing on at this time on Saturday evening, I doubt it would draw the millions it does. Therefore the producers will want to go for populist judges.

I don't think she's putting herself up as a ballroom specialist particularly, but she is bringing a huge experience of working with dancers at the highest professional standards. Crossover is possible; if you have an understanding of ballet for example, you can apply certain rules to almost any form of dance. Just like when I work with students on speaking Shakespeare, I can also comment on their delivery in modern drama.

Finally, it's easy to knock Hot Gossip but there had never been anything like it on British television when it appeared in the 70s. Seems a bit tame now. but almost 30 years ago . . .

Hi Gazbo,


Yes but what about Ballroom Dance?


rarified, yes but there are plenty of pro dancers/judges that could do a far better job than Arlene has managed during this series.


How can she be populist though? most people will never have heard of her and if it was Richard & Janet Gleve, or Robin & Rita Short no one would have been any the wiser and people certainly wouldn't have been running around the country saying "they should have had Arlene Phillips".


I agree, there can be cross-over etc and if Arlene were to spend at least a little effort on giving good, well balanced, well delivered criticism and leave her nasty, unpleasant, personal assassinations out of it, I wouldn't be so against her being on the show. Believe me, I honestly didn't start watching this show with any like/dislike for any of the judges, it is purely their behaviour which has made me feel this way.


Yes, and their success relied totally on skimpy clothing and and sexual inuendo, their dancing skills were highly questionable. Now if "hot Gossip" had been world renown for their Dancing skills and not just for looking sexy, Arlene would have had something to be proud of. It's a bit like Toniolli's "Space Vixens" second Rate poor quality dancing relying on sex appeal. Well that says a whole lot about their abilities doesn't it.