I really feel that Bruno should be replaced in the next series, he is just so random in his marks and does not seem to follow logic:

i.e Generally you see that Len and Bruno give higher marks than Arlene and Craig, but with Bruno it does change if he wants to protect his favorite dancers.

I love Len as he seems fair and impartial, I feel that Craig is as well. Craig may be harsh and nit picky, but he is consistent.

Arlene has her moments but generally seems fair.

Bruno just seems to follow a new course with his marking. This makes him a liabilty and so he should not be there next series. His marking has proberly lost Zoe the chance of winning unless she pulls off an absolute stunner of a performance.

I agree that there should be a change of judges, but I'd like to see Arlene go, she is getting increasingly vitriolic, biased and uncomfortable to watch.
I would like to see Karen Hardy as a judge if she doesn't dance next time. She and Len could balance Craig's determination to be unimpressed (although he seems to be making an effort to change that image) and Bruno's over the top characacture of himself.
I wouldn't be sorry if they were all changed but Len, tbh, but I expect that's too much to hope for!

I like Len and Craig. They both, on the whole , give informed opinion. Arlene and Bruno have become characatures of themselves and express a lot of hot air Great for writing stories though)

I have just read this thread & could'nt agree more that Arlene & Bruno should be replaced for the next series. I think that one thing this programme doesnt need is Arlene's shrieking & nit-picking comments or Bruno's cruel jibes & profound self-adoration.

Absolutely!!!! The only one with any integrity or consistency is Len. He is also the only Ballroom Judge.

Yes the others know what theyre talking about but don't judge it as a dancing competition. They're more into the overall performance, choreography etc. They're working choreographers whereas Len's a working ballroom/latin judge.

BUT the Beeb see it as entertainement NOT a dancing comp. So they'll keep the eclectic mix. MIND YOU they need more impartial people. They tore strips of Zoe's paso then gave it 9's.

If she'd made a mess of week one where would she be now?? Even this week Bruno was going on about she'd had no arc (learning curve?) therefore he's clearly judging it on the basis of her previous performances, not the one he's just watched. Last week he said she was "back where you belong, at the top of the tree". He's way too protective of her, or Ian.

Choregraphing the Space Vixens, didn't look like something you'd want on your CV. I'd vote for proper, qualified, licensed ballroom and latin judges. there are hundreds out there, many of international repute.

JBX22, I certainly agree with your comments about "space vixens" & it amazes me that Bruno has managed to get it hyped so much on ITT. I do feel that Craig has integrity , He really has gone up in my estimation this series _ He is now more humane instead of just brutally honest!

I couldn't agree more with both the previous posters.

From what I have seen of "space vixens" it looks second rate sleaze that would be more properly placed on a B rate porn movie. I suppose that reflects Bruno's personality and moral stance quite well really. He is clearly incapable of being true and honest with his marking and pours fourth such utter tripe that it is quite nauseating. I would like to see Bruno return to his gushing underworld of 2nd rate shows where I would not have to see him again. I had never heard of him before this series of SCD and from what I have now seen, that would suit me quite fine. I wonder how deep BBC had to dig to find him?

Arlene may well be a professional at something, but that something is not Ballroom and as I have said before, she seems to make up for a lack of knowledge with nasty, unpleasant and sarcastic remarks. Quite clearly this woman is incapable of passing on critique without resorting to personal attacks and over the top verbal assault. Once again, a blast from the past that was responsible for “hot Gossip” on the Kenny Everett show! That says everything really doesn’t it. “Space Vixens” and “Kenny Everett Show” my word the BBC really pulled out all the stops in finding good quality top class CURRENT judges for this show!

It appears to me that both these people had flagging or unrecognised careers and they wanted to bring themselves back into the Public view. What other motive could they have for agreeing to judge a subject they have no or very little knowledge on? Well…they HAVE brought themselves back into public view and quite frankly, they have given such a poor account of themselves by their ridiculous behaviour that they would probably have been better off staying under their respective rocks.

Craig Revel-Horwood: once again I had not heard of this guy until SCD and once again he has his background in stage dance choreography. Another “unknown” in the Ballroom world. Initially he was as bad as Arlene with his vitriol and character assassinations of the contestants but has more recently controlled himself and even I would have to say does appear more professional than the above named and does at least score more consistently. My initial dislike for his earlier antics has passed as I can see him trying to be more objective and less offensive.

Len, well what can you say, What a Star. Yes he does mark a bit high, but at least that’s the same for everyone and when he criticises, it is with a degree of feeling for the subject of that criticism and also the KNOWLEDGE OF DANCE to back it up.

I know there are people on here that say this is NOT a dance comp, it’s an entertainment show, but come on people, the whole show IS about Ballroom Dancing, so why there is such a ludicrous imbalance on the panel, 3 people from God Knows where and only one Dance judge is beyond me. That ratio should be reversed.

Keep either Arlene or Bruno if you must, they can sit in the corner like a petulant child, ranting and raving and making a complete fool of themselves, while the other 3 judges could get on with the proper job of giving good, well balanced, honest critique that actually helps the contestants.

Strange to say, you brought back memories of Hot Gossip, on Kenny Everett, & it struck me that they symbolise everything that is wrong with Arlene as a judge.

Hot Gossip were famous for controversial routines; mainly due to the fact that the dancers were scantily clad, & their overall look, but, when you actually watched their dancing it turned out to be nothing to write home about.

Pretty much sums up Arlene's judging criteria: it doesn't matter if they can't really do the dance, so long as it looks good.

I think it would be harsh to replace any of the judges given the tremendous success of the show. Everyone involved in SCD - including a certain Mr Forsyth who I'm no great fan of - is entitled to a share of the credit. Also, the way in which the scores are awarded and the limited number of choices available make balanced and consistent judging difficult.

However, I believe a couple of changes would lead to fairer scoring:

- a fifth (credible) judge so that the highest and lowest marks for each dance can be discarded

- additional scoring options e.g. half marks so that the judges have more room to manoeuvre

Hardly radical stuff but I think it would make a positive difference.

I like the judges just as they are, a nice balance between sweet and sour, although I will admit I cringed for James a time or two, if they changed anything I think it should be Tess - but again she seem to be able to handle Brucie ok. So all in all I think if it isn't broken - don't fix it.

I think Len is fine...
Craig is a bit ott sometimes, but i think he can stay as the pantomime baddy...
Bruno needs to be told to calm it just a touch but i think he would if it weren't for Arlene - when Bruno goes off on one it's always fuelled by her!

Arlene - you are the weakest link - goodbye!

Replacement - BRING BACK KAREN!!!!!!!

I think all the judges should stay.

Obviously their views will vary, they are individuals, who look and feel differently about what they see, in the same way we do.

I appreciate there are rules regarding steps in each of the dances, but I also see dancing as a form of art, so as in the world of art, we know, what appeals to one, may not necessarily appeal to another.

Oh so very true and I am convinced that the woman knows nothing of Ballroom dancing and tries to disguise that lack of knowledge with unprofessional, uncalled for personal attacks and sarcasm.

I'm sorry but brunos lack of impartiality this series has put me off him he has been a hinderance to zoe and ian's chances of success and they can put a bit of their unpopularity squarely on his shoulders! to me there's constructive criticism and there's general courtesy towards another human. if peope are giving their best in front of millions of people doing something that was totally alien 3 months ago you cannot start being cruel! some of his comments to james were just downright insulting i'm not surprised that james was in a strop if it was me i'd be having serious words with him after the show he doesn't criticise he gets personal

Len's terrific, nice, generally fair, knows what he's talking about, very funny, criticizes, but not in a hurtful way, he should stay.

Bruno is far too OTT, totally prejudiced, unbalanced, makes hurtful personal comments that are out of order, criticizes a dance and then gives 9s and from what I saw of Space Vixens...

Craig is in fact much improved from the last series, does comment on mistakes consistently, and usually gives credit where it's due, except to James but I do generally respect his opinions. He often has interesting points to make about performances that the others miss. He should stay.

Arlene. She should go. No question. Whether she's taking medication to make her like this I don't know but despite the fact she has toned down in the last few shows, she's hurtful, makes vicious personal comments, is totally self -opinonated and it's a credit to the male celebs in this series that not one of them has actually gone and hit her...

Karen would be a tonic and we desperately want another ballroom expert in the panel.

Arlene choreographed the hugely successful London Dominion revival of Grease and directed/choreographed Saturday Night Fever. That is serious high profile work: it may not be strictly ballroom but that is about as big as it gets in theatre.

Bruno and Space Vixens: maybe he has to pay a big tax bill but as i understand it, Space Vixens is a cult show, Rocky Horror in space? The judges have to earn money and they dont always do it for love: since 7/7, the West end is struggling and its harder than ever to stage a show. Work is probably not that easy to come by, however good or famous you are.

Just because you dont agree with Arlene, doesnt mean she knows nothing.

Check out the first line on the following link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/strictlycomedan...phillips.shtml

Do you really think that she hasn't extensively studied and choreographed all forms of dance? Of anyone bar Len, we should respect her knowledge and experience.

One final point, i believe that the SCD book mentioned (if not, i have definitely read it somewhere) that each judge is looking at a slightly different aspect of the dancing, hence why scores can fluctuate and opinions vary so much as they are looking at different criteria, based on their particular skills and experience.

Karen would be excellent as a judge but may be too close to the show, having danced before.

five judges wont work, as it will take up more time on the show. Three like the States maybe, but four seems perfect to me.

Half marks will create as many problems as it solves. The only way to truly remove the controversy is to get the judges to rank from top to bottom after everyone has danced. The scores are only converted into a score so there would be no alteration on the public voting's influence.

Alternatively, there could be a scoreboard where you could see how each judge ranks the dancer against the previous performances in that show and see the rise and fall of acts as more dancers perform. The first dancer may plummet to the bottom after every dance or you may see the lead changing many times or not changing at all. There is plenty of potential for real drama and excitement in the voting.

G

I defnitely agree that Karen Hardy would be a welcome addition to the Panel, both for her expert Ballroom knowledge, and her sense of fun and warmth, and positivity. Ideally, she will take part in the next series as a dancer, but if not, put her on the Panel. I am definitely Bruno'd out. :yawn:

Posters on this thread may be interested to know that Arlene was a replacement called in at late notice for the first choice - ballroom dancer, teacher and adjudicator Lorna Lee. Here is a link for those wanting more info...

http://www.istd.org/latin/committee/lornalee.html

ooh thanks for the link beesknees. that is certainly interesting. i wonder why she didn't end up doing it.

Lorna Lee was a great great Latin Dancer with Michal Styllianous (prob spelt wrong) she has danced at the very top of the latin ladder but Im glad that Arlene got it I think the judges are as much a part of the shows success and are the dancers and the celebs and yes even poor old Brucie.

I remember saying at the beginning of the series that maybe the dancers and celebs should be changed each year but have reflected on that and now feel that no the dancers are key to the success of it all so basically Im saying if it aint broke dont fix it.

Karen Hardy is a lovely person and great dancer but for all that dont think she would be suitable to replace Arlene if she left they would go for a senior 'statesman' of dance like lorna

Precisely my point, she is not a professional in Ballroom Dance.


well, it sounds like we both agree re the state of "space Vixens" then


It's not because I disagree with her that I think she knows nothing. It is because for this entire series, all I have heard her do is screech and below insults and sarcasm. I can not recall one piece of helpful constructive criticism delivered with a fair, firm helpful command of language. She has not been able to demonstrate any ability to comment on the technical side of Ballroom Dancing. If she does have the ability to do so, it would be nice to see her at least try.


Yes I did check it, once again, my point entirely, nowhere does it refer to her having any knowledge of Ballroom Dancing!


She may well have studied & choreographed many forms of dance or art, but she has never to my knowledge been professionally or even seriously engaged in Ballroom Dancing. I fly light aircraft as a hobby, that doesn't permit me to fly or judge the flying of a Civil Jet and if I were to offer myself up as an "expert" in the field with that intention, I would be wrong.

Arlene is formally trained all courses I have come across in dancing (that are college run) always include ballroom and latin. Besides that its a panel of judges maybe they are all looking at different aspects of it - in truth I have not heard any of the pros I know moaning about her being there and some of those pros have been extremely high up the ranks - dancing being what it is would have thought I would have heard some complaints

Gosh! I remember Michael Styllianos, when he worked with Torvill and Dean in the early 80s! [Boy, that dates me].
I believe he helped them with a compulsory Cha Cha.

Either or both Bruno and Arlene should take the P45 for the next series. It's not their criticism, it's the way they've phrased it that has so incensed me and many other people. Personal abuse is not on, and why would you then expect the celeb to come back and be better in the next show? There's only so much you can take of that sort of thing, especially when you are not a trained dancer and not doing it for a living.

It's soul destroying when you've put so much into a dance.

Believe Michael worked on several dances with them I hate admitting to things I remember like some of the dancers dancing as kids - makes me feel so old!!!