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The Final - the other factors.... |
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#1 |
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The Final - the other factors....
Well, well, well. I was out last night and came in at 10pm and watched the Final with Mr Zip. What very interesting viewing.
Some factors that I found facinating, puke-worthy or just noteworthy. 1. Why did Andy and JS sing their 'unsung new song' at the beginning of their 3 while Shayne kept his OTR until last? 2. Why did Shayne get to go last again...and finish with ORT (which was good)? 3. Muchos weeping going on - the judges being gooey and causing much of said weeping. Not from JS, I hasten to add until they got booted. 4. HIGHLY emotional films of the family visits with Shayne having a cry with his mum in the kitchen. Why did this get shown? Just how many times to we have to see Andy's son - the cutest kid in the UK (well, apart from my two )?5. Why did Simon allow JS to sing LIB when we heard it all JUST the week before? In general, why were the JS songs so poorly chosen? 6. Sharon weeping and Louis all pink eyed at one point - in fact, did he cry? 7. IMO (and I do stress this), the winner's song was made for a voice like Shayne....didn't suit Andy and I cannot imagine JS even singing it. It was written for Shayne. I do think that people get what they voted for...but there are some things that perhaps enhance some chances over others. My own view - Andy was by far, the best act of the night. His best vocals ever. However, I like JS and while I felt they were the worst, their song choices were awful and uninspired. I thought Shayne did a very good job of OTR (but I just don't like his voice at all) but his other two songs were not memorable and I thought he did a better job of IYNTO last time round. I think that they knew that the voting would be close....as it seems it was (and has been), if we believe Kate. I honestly think they were surprised by Andy before his performances last night - and expected the final 2 to be Shayne and JS. Shayne's song choices were very good.....JS's were dire, IMO. Andy did so well last night, but hadn't been consistent, IMO. I honestly felt that Shayne would win....just on the strength of bookies odds all the way etc, but what I did find interesting was the way that the thing was set up to give Shayne the best possible chance of winning, IMO. I think Simon, for all his 'such lovely guy' stuff about JS, was as much in on this as anyone. Attack of the guilties as he's rolling to the bank? I wonder. Anyway - I have to say that even I, who cannot abide Shayne, even felt a twinge of emotion for him when he won. Am I THAT easily manipulated? Looking forward to JS bringing some music out...unhampered by X Factor tinge. Probably will have to wait for an age though |
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#2 |
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I actually disagree, I felt 'It's my goal' far suited Andy, and that he actually sung it better, the second time Shayne sung it I thought he was good, but the first time, not so good.
JS song choices were terrible, but surely they have some input in that, In fairness on paper, shaynes song choices didn't look too hot, but he totally nailed SOTR. Andy IMO made the best choices. It is noones fault but JSs that they didnt sing Desperado, which was the only time I was entertained by them. They were just too cheesy, I dont think they were ever in the running. You have to remember this site is higly unrepresentative, Brenda was the fav until last week and JS this week, so not in tune with the viewers voting at all. I agree about all the crying, it was too much, they were all at it!! Everytime it showed Andy the guy had tears in his eyes. Call me a sukcer, but being Christmas etc, I knid of enjoyed all the teary stories, and they needed something to fill out the show, still with all its gimmicks it got beaten in the ratings - not surprised, SCD rocks!! |
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#3 |
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Hi again Zip Gypsy, you're not going to send me insane again are you
I think they were placed rightly last night, JS started off well but have gone downhill in the last few weeks. Shayne and Andy were equally as good but SOTW by Shane was sensational, that might have tipped the scales, but as there was only 1.6% in it it could quite easily have been Andy's night. I also think Andy and Shayne both performed the new song equally as wel
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#4 |
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We, the viewers, have been manipulated from day 1 PI1.
We were meant to vote for Gareth to win. We were even told that in the first programme, but many decided not to be manipulated. Where is Gareth these days, btw? I didn't watch Fame Academy 1, so I'm not quite sure who was meant to win that, but where is David Sneddon? Where are any of the finalists from the 2nd series of PI and FA? The producers manipulated the unsuspecting GBP and gave us the winners THEY wanted. A winner who wouldn't last long, so that the producers could then concentrate on the money horse which is the next series of the show. They have already started the search for next years X Factor. If I were Shayne I'd be very watchful. Simon and co don't have enough time for him, and next year's show. |
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#5 |
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Posts: n/a
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Morning Zippy
![]() I really enjoyed reading your opening post ...lots of interesting and valid points there! As I watched it, I did get the vague feeling that JS had been stitched up. They now look so far removed from how they were at the start of the live shows, its as if they've lost a bit of themselves along the way! Based on the night's performances, third was the right place for them. However, I agree that ulitimately this may not be a bad thing for them. They have had lots of great exposure and have already gained many loyal fans. They will hopefully be able to work on music they want to work on, in the way they want to work on it ...I'm looking forward to their first album Oh, and please, please, please ditch the shiney suits guys I think Andy has a strong voice and can sing in tune but I really dont like the quality of his voice. I also find him a little boring. These are just my opinions! Having said that, he totally raised his game last night and until the final round I thought he had it in the bag! I am guessing they each chose their 'best song' to sing last and I did actually enjoy Me and Mrs Jones ...his best ever perfomance in my opinion. However it was totally eclipsed by Shayne's final song. I'm sure Andy has a future in music too And Shayne ....I really love his voice, especially when he is NOT singing falsetto. Thankfully we got to hear quite a bit of it last night and he sounded great. His first 2 songs were good but he reached another level with Over the Rainbow ...a truely stunning performance, and that's what clinched it for him! I wasn't too bothered by the crying in the studio ...it was a very emotional occasion!! I'm not a big fan of the VT bit anyway and it was as bad as ever for all of them last night I think the winner's single is cr@p and I am a bit worried that Shayne will be led down the cheesy pop route by Simon and Louis. His voice is wasted on such tripe!!! All in all I really enjoyed the show (watching it again now!!!) |
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#6 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
You have to remember this site is higly unrepresentative, Brenda was the fav until last week and JS this week, so not in tune with the viewers voting at all.
That's why I stressed the 'bookies'. The 'etc' is open to interpretation.I don't think DS ARE all that representative of the GBP. Myself - I have a fabulous 'gift' for supporting those who manage to come 3rd! I'll be putting a tenner on my next year's fav to come third! And anyway - you're biased and have been completely manipulated into liking Shayne....you are a PRIME example of a member of the GBP who has fallen for the trap....unlike the more discerning viewer (like myself....ahem)....who likes 'good but not popular'. [Kiddin' btw....!!]
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#7 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
You have to remember this site is higly unrepresentative, Brenda was the fav until last week and JS this week, so not in tune with the viewers voting at all.
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#8 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Well, well, well. I was out last night and came in at 10pm and watched the Final with Mr Zip. What very interesting viewing.
Some factors that I found facinating, puke-worthy or just noteworthy. 1. Why did Andy and JS sing their 'unsung new song' at the beginning of their 3 while Shayne kept his OTR until last? 2. Why did Shayne get to go last again...and finish with ORT (which was good)? 3. Muchos weeping going on - the judges being gooey and causing much of said weeping. Not from JS, I hasten to add until they got booted. 4. HIGHLY emotional films of the family visits with Shayne having a cry with his mum in the kitchen. Why did this get shown? Just how many times to we have to see Andy's son - the cutest kid in the UK (well, apart from my two )?5. Why did Simon allow JS to sing LIB when we heard it all JUST the week before? In general, why were the JS songs so poorly chosen? 6. Sharon weeping and Louis all pink eyed at one point - in fact, did he cry? 7. IMO (and I do stress this), the winner's song was made for a voice like Shayne....didn't suit Andy and I cannot imagine JS even singing it. It was written for Shayne. I do think that people get what they voted for...but there are some things that perhaps enhance some chances over others. My own view - Andy was by far, the best act of the night. His best vocals ever. However, I like JS and while I felt they were the worst, their song choices were awful and uninspired. I thought Shayne did a very good job of OTR (but I just don't like his voice at all) but his other two songs were not memorable and I thought he did a better job of IYNTO last time round. I think that they knew that the voting would be close....as it seems it was (and has been), if we believe Kate. I honestly think they were surprised by Andy before his performances last night - and expected the final 2 to be Shayne and JS. Shayne's song choices were very good.....JS's were dire, IMO. Andy did so well last night, but hadn't been consistent, IMO. I honestly felt that Shayne would win....just on the strength of bookies odds all the way etc, but what I did find interesting was the way that the thing was set up to give Shayne the best possible chance of winning, IMO. I think Simon, for all his 'such lovely guy' stuff about JS, was as much in on this as anyone. Attack of the guilties as he's rolling to the bank? I wonder. Anyway - I have to say that even I, who cannot abide Shayne, even felt a twinge of emotion for him when he won. Am I THAT easily manipulated? Looking forward to JS bringing some music out...unhampered by X Factor tinge. Probably will have to wait for an age though |
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#9 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _hunni_bunni
You make some interesting points, I really wondered about why Shayne got to sing OTR last instead of at the beginning with the others. Simon really did want Shayne to win and he has the biggest influence on the show and the public imo
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#10 |
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Interesting comments, which largely reflect my own feelings. Personally, I felt Andy sang the best on the night, esp since he gets hugely nervous usually and I thought he most upped his game - why he came so close to winning, I suppose. I don't think he has the personality to be a star though.
The winner's song is pretty dreary and predictable IMO. I feel its lyrics best suit Andy, the singing middle-aged ethnic minority grieving underdog binman (as presented in the VT clips), rather than the fresh 21 year old Shayne, but he's a very competent singer and no doubt it will be number one. Personally I'd love to hear Brenda let rip on it, but whoever sings it, it's not a great song. I thought each of the acts each won one of their rounds. Both Andy and Shayne were notg great in the Christmas songs - Shayne was outsung bigtime by Lee Ryan singing the same bad choice of Xmas travesty on the previous ITV show, but he pulled it back on OTR. Also what was he wearing in that section? I felt Louis was pushing Shayne into safe ITV territory when he could be so much cooler, more contemporary and take a few risks. He's 21, not 41. Here comes a year of ballady covers of creaky old hits which is all Louis ever does. Brenda and JS were my series faves - I can't think of a singing brothers duo act at the mo and in that sense there is a gap in the market for them - but I think singing Let it Be so soon after they first did it, made it less exciting last night. Sorry for them they were third and not second. I think it is almost impossible for a group to win against solo artists. |
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#11 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncann
I thought each of the acts each won one of their rounds.
Old song - Andy won this round; JS as duncann says - too recent and not exciting; Shayne - competent, but wowed me with it last time. I think that's because he is soooo like DB on the song...a bit like a fab Stars in Their Eyes! New Song - Shayne did so well with this and it being the last song and closing with it...very powerful force for vote pulling. I thought Andy did very, very well also. When you think of all the songs that JS could have done - again, picking a well known, done to death number. Zzzzzzzzz. Xmas song - JS had the best one...but again....safe, uninspired and competent. I would have loved to see them sing Greg Lake - I Believe in Father Xmas. Andy - no.....didn't like it but vocally competent. Shayne - Zzzzzzzz. |
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#12 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnostae's Mum
The producers manipulated the unsuspecting GBP and gave us the winners THEY wanted. A winner who wouldn't last long, so that the producers could then concentrate on the money horse which is the next series of the show.
I think that, from the original PI to present day, they had never found the one the originally set out to find, that being an out and out POP Idol. In Shayne they could have that cash cow they've not yet found. They wanted GG but Will got in the way and, in Shayne, they've found something even better, a good looking lad with a nice voice who teen girls will adore and will adorn a hundred magazine covers. |
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#13 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewWoman
I totally agree with you there.
I think that, from the original PI to present day, they had never found the one the originally set out to find, that being an out and out POP Idol. In Shayne they could have that cash cow they've not yet found. They wanted GG but Will got in the way and, in Shayne, they've found something even better, a good looking lad with a nice voice who teen girls will adore and will adorn a hundred magazine covers.
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#14 |
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What can I say. A very good thread and opening post Zip
And you brought up many points there that I'm sure have gone through a few minds. I now look forward to JS's album, which I wouldn't have been so much had they won, as I believe they would have been manipulated into doing the wrong sort of album for thier music and vocals. |
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#15 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
I did remember that - I don't think I mentioned the DS preferences?
That's why I stressed the 'bookies'. The 'etc' is open to interpretation.I don't think DS ARE all that representative of the GBP. Myself - I have a fabulous 'gift' for supporting those who manage to come 3rd! I'll be putting a tenner on my next year's fav to come third! And anyway - you're biased and have been completely manipulated into liking Shayne....you are a PRIME example of a member of the GBP who has fallen for the trap....unlike the more discerning viewer (like myself....ahem)....who likes 'good but not popular'. [Kiddin' btw....!!] ![]() I think it's extremely insulting to not accept the fact that someone can just like him for his talent. I didn't even like him the first week, but I think he has shown great diversity. I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are. I also thought, Brenda & Andy were good, but on the night, I thnk Shayne was a deseerving winner. I certainly haven't been manipulated, I can see as well as anyone else that the judges liked him, but it didnt influence me, in other programmes, I have not liked the winner, this time round I did. |
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#16 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
I haven't been 'manipulated' into anything, I actually prefer Shayne.
I think it's extremely insulting to not accept the fact that someone can just like him for his talent. I didn't even like him the first week, but I think he has shown great diversity. I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are. I also thought, Brenda & Andy were good, but on the night, I thnk Shayne was a deseerving winner. I certainly haven't been manipulated, I can see as well as anyone else that the judges liked him, but it didnt influence me, in other programmes, I have not liked the winner, this time round I did. I was doing a tongue in cheek thing....soz if you are annoyed
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#17 |
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To be fair on Andy his mother has recently passed away so you can't realy blame him for bursting into tears when Simon said "your mother will proud of you"
As for Shayne crying well i guess he may have been emotional... I do agree with a lot of what you said Zip and i definitley think JS were given the WRONG song choices! IMO Simon always wanted Shayne to win and I guess that meant he had to sell out his own act Even when it was Andy V Shayne he made it so obvious to the viewers he wanted Shayne to win. And then at the end he said the best man won etc...I do think Shayne will be quite sucessful though. He'll probably have the same fan base as Westlife and they havent done too badly for themselves. |
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#18 |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anna123
To be fair on Andy his mother has recently passed away so you can't realy blame him for bursting into tears when Simon said "your mother will proud proud of you"
I do agree with a lot of what you said Zip and i definitley think JS were given the WRONG song choices! IMO Simon always wanted Shayne to win and I guess that meant he had to sell out his own act Even when it was Andy V Shayne he made it so obvious to the viewers he wanted Shayne to win. And then at the end he said the best man won etc...I do think Shayne will be quite sucessful though. He'll probably have the same fan base as Westlife and they havent done too badly for themselves.
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#19 |
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that's my goal is your typical winner's song
shayne just sang it , andy lived through it
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#20 |
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A few thoughts.
Andy was bang on last night, his version of Oh Holy Night was outstanding, he put everything into his performances last night. The song order puzzled me as well with Shayne singing SOTR last while the others sang their new songs in the first "round" JS were stitched up by Cowell lastr night, especially with the choice of Let It Be, in fact Cowell has been terrible as a mentor, he threw a hissy fit when he heard he had the groups and hasnt looked interested in them the whole series. Louis and his "he wants this so much comment". Well Louis, I think they all wanted it so much not just Shayne. Sharon adds nothing to the panel, bland bland bland Interesting to read to day that the only way that Shayne will make decent cash is if he dances to the Cowell tune, does what hes told and basically turns into a one man cover machine. He does have a good voice but he will be ruined by Cowell and co. |
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#21 |
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Didn't we all know, without being told, time and time again by themselves and others that they all wanted it so badly?
Not many people on the planet who wouldn't want a get rich quick fix for themselves and their families if they were offered it? |
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#22 |
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I have to agree with a lot of what is being said on this thread. I have refrained from posting last night or this morning because I felt so angry at the end of last night's first show so please excuse the length of my post and me venting my spleen! Firstly, can I just say that though I have supported JS from their first audition, I was more than pleased to see them come third? I think, if they bring out quality material (which I am certain that they are capable of), they will benefit far more from not having won. Andy was the best performer last night (in my opinion but I have to say anyone who does not agree must be more than a little biased in Shayne’s favour). I think winning would have opened JS (and Andy) to the same sort of criticism and situation that Steve was in last year. The media had been geared to big-up Shayne in a way they hadn’t with Steve. Shayne was too much of a media darling for every TV show who had promoted him and every publication who had featured him to just admit that they were wrong. Even throughout PI1, Gareth was considered by most of the media as nothing more than a no substance here today gone tomorrow teen idol so when Will won, he had little public or media hostility to contend with. All in all, this was the most blatant example I have seen of most of the people involved being answerable to their bank managers rather than to genuine talent in about two years. Secondly, didn’t Carl, along with Andy (Abraham) sing his lungs out last night? Easily proving that along with Brenda, they were the best vocalists in the competition. Unfortunately, while the chosen material showed off what Andy (Abraham) was capable of, it didn’t do the same for Carl (or his brother) though, boy, did he make the best of it? Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Why did Andy and JS sing their 'unsung new song' at the beginning of their 3 while Shayne kept his OTR until last?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Why did Shayne get to go last again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Muchos weeping going on - the judges being gooey and causing much of said weeping. Not from JS, I hasten to add until they got booted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
HIGHLY emotional films of the family visits with Shayne having a cry with his mum in the kitchen. Why did this get shown?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Just how many times to we have to see Andy's son - the cutest kid in the UK (well, apart from my two
)? Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Why did Simon allow JS to sing LIB when we heard it all JUST the week before? In general, why were the JS songs so poorly chosen?
I agree that the songs chosen for JS were poor (and whatever they say, the artists' input into this decision is very limited). Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Sharon weeping and Louis all pink eyed at one point - in fact, did he cry?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
IMO (and I do stress this), the winner's song was made for a voice like Shayne....didn't suit Andy and I cannot imagine JS even singing it. It was written for Shayne.
I could imagine JS singing it but with a totally different arrangement and even tempo. However, I don’t think much of the song at all and a better voice than Shayne’s “pop” voice would be wasted on it. Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
I do think that people get what they voted for...but there are some things that perhaps enhance some chances over others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
My own view - Andy was by far, the best act of the night. His best vocals ever. However, I like JS and while I felt they were the worst, their song choices were awful and uninspired. I thought Shayne did a very good job of OTR (but I just don't like his voice at all) but his other two songs were not memorable and I thought he did a better job of IYNTO last time round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
I think that they knew that the voting would be close....as it seems it was (and has been), if we believe Kate. I honestly think they were surprised by Andy before his performances last night - and expected the final 2 to be Shayne and JS. Shayne's song choices were very good.....JS's were dire, IMO. Andy did so well last night, but hadn't been consistent, IMO..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
I honestly felt that Shayne would win....just on the strength of bookies odds all the way etc, but what I did find interesting was the way that the thing was set up to give Shayne the best possible chance of winning, IMO...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
I think Simon, for all his 'such lovely guy' stuff about JS, was as much in on this as anyone. Attack of the guilties as he's rolling to the bank? I wonder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Anyway - I have to say that even I, who cannot abide Shayne, even felt a twinge of emotion for him when he won. Am I THAT easily manipulated?
![]() Me too. I couldn't help but go "Aaaww" at his little squeaky crying when he was hugging Andy but, as I have said, he is the only member of his family who makes me feel he deserves better than what he has got. It is a testament to him that with all nature has given him, he does not appear to feel this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Looking forward to JS bringing some music out...unhampered by X Factor tinge. Probably will have to wait for an age though
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipGypsy
Xmas song - JS had the best one...but again....safe, uninspired and competent. I would have loved to see them sing Greg Lake - I Believe in Father Xmas. Andy - no.....didn't like it but vocally competent. Shayne - Zzzzzzzz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppyholiday
As I watched it, I did get the vague feeling that JS had been stitched up
Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
JS song choices were terrible, but surely they have some input in that, ........... It is noones fault but JSs that they didnt sing Desperado, which was the only time I was entertained by them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
They were just too cheesy, I dont think they were ever in the running.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
In fairness on paper, shaynes song choices didn't look too hot, but he totally nailed SOTR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
Andy IMO made the best choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
You have to remember this site is higly unrepresentative, Brenda was the fav until last week and JS this week, so not in tune with the viewers voting at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
still with all its gimmicks it got beaten in the ratings - not surprised, SCD rocks!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by newkid30
I think it's extremely insulting to not accept the fact that someone can just like him for his talent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melanie34
SOTW
Is that 'Somewhere Over the Wainbow'? The forthcoming duet by Jonathan Ross and Carol Thatcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnostae's Mum
I didn't watch Fame Academy 1, so I'm not quite sure who was meant to win that, but where is David Sneddon?
David was very much NOT the chosen one in 'FA1'. That was Lemar. Under the format of 'FA1' (which was changed for 'FA2'), David was constantly being put up for eviction by the teachers but the public always voted him in. The first time the public were given the opportunity to vote on Lemar (in the final), they voted him first out, leaving David and Sinead to sing it out. Look at him now! I think 'FA2' however has to take the title for 'Most Blatant Manipulation of the Viewing and Voting Public in the History of Reality TV' ............... and…………… the killer touch ………………… they did it under the guise of “searching for a credible artist with the potential for longevity in the industry”. Priceless!!! I could not help but be reminded of this every time Simon or Louis (Sharon has not been so guilty of this) said they were looking for “an international artist”, “a potential superstar”, etc. Quote:
Originally Posted by anna123
To be fair on Andy his mother has recently passed away so you can't realy blame him for bursting into tears when Simon said "your mother will proud of you"
). He could have said it earlier and completely thrown Andy for his remaining performance/s.Quote:
Originally Posted by thms
that's my goal is your typical winner's song
shayne just sang it , andy lived through it ![]() Quote:
Originally Posted by oilcat
Sharon adds nothing to the panel, bland bland bland
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilcat
Interesting to read to day that the only way that Shayne will make decent cash is if he dances to the Cowell tune, does what hes told and basically turns into a one man cover machine. He does have a good voice but he will be ruined by Cowell and co.
Last edited by FrankieB : 18-12-2005 at 19:28. |
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#23 |
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Only one comment to make on your post FrankieB and that is you can choose your friends, can't choose your family. Sadly, LOL.
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Watching wind farms
Posts: 24,049
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As Sharon would say.....
Fabulous, FrankieB...
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,305
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Wonderful post FrankieB.
I'd forgotten Lemar was the chosen one for FA1, I also remember David couldn't have been the chosen one as he didn't make the original final. He was put in to the final when 1 of the finalists was ill IIRC. I am sitting here watching last night's shows again. I've played Andy's version of TMG twice so far, and Shayne's version has just finished. I still prefer Andy's. I am struck by another "coincidence" or piece of manipulation. In the results show Shayne yet again sang last. They should have given Andy the chance to be the one to sing last. Also, as the lead was supposedly changing hands frequently they were more than capable of closing the lines when the chosen one was in the lead. But I have always been a cynic. |
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That's why I stressed the 'bookies'. The 'etc' is open to interpretation.
I'll be putting a tenner on my next year's fav to come third!
I was doing a tongue in cheek thing....soz if you are annoyed