I wasn't trying to be patronising! I was quite confused that someone posting on here did not know the voting system for a show they clearly have an interest in!!

Nat
xxx

As long as Darren held top of the public vote it didnt matter where the judges placed theirs. Made the judges sort of redundant

Yeah that is true! Well sort cos if Colin had been top with the judges and second with the audience he'd have won.

If the judges didn;t want Darren to win, they shouldn't have put Zoe top! Simple as!

Nat
xxx

So basically, whoever wins the public vote when it gets to the final 2 wins overall which is what the OP stated all along

But we're only concentrating on the voting for the final 2 just in case you hadn't noticed.

Ok, I know how the standard voting system works.

Repeat, I know how the standard voting system works.

No confusion there.

However, if the judges' votes carry over into the showdance/freestyle/whatever head-to-head/whatever etc., then *it is POSSIBLE for a couple to win SCD WITHOUT winning the public vote*

IF Colin had come first with the judges last night and the public vote before the head-to-head had remained the same, then it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for Darren to win and there would have NO POINT voting for him!

WTF is so hard to understand?!

Would it have made any difference? No, Colin top with judges - Zoe still would have gone out with the public vote leaving same scenario.

As a poster pointed out, It just went on who had the highest public vote between Colin and Darren.

Judges redundant - rest my case

Nat
xxx[/quote]bom-jiggy Quote:
Originally Posted by minihoy
I wasn't trying to be patronising! I was quite confused that someone posting on here did not know the voting system for a show they clearly have an interest in!!

Nat
xxx



But we're only concentrating on the voting for the final 2 just in case you hadn't noticed.



Mini - Bom 1 all

People are obviously a little confused here due to a lack of clarity in the voting system. I'll try to explain.


That's not quite true, and is exactly the reason why people are confused. There's no such thing as a second voting round in the final. There's no such thing as only the voting for the final 2. No one could get 7. The maximum possible total score in the final is 6.

The vote is frozen at the elimination of the third place couple - not restarted. The elimination is based on who has the lowest score at that point.

Then voting is reopened, but no totals have been allocated to the top two (they both have four at that point, but it's a floating temporary score, open to change). So it doesn't become 4+ 1 or 2. It still remains 1 and 2 + final placing.

Remember, the votes already made are carried through. If this was a 'second round of voting' allocating a further two and one votes, it's a bit harsh (as it effectively means votes cast before the elimination are counted twice). This means, oddly, that Darren could come second with a score of three, after Zoe comes third with a score of four (again, another reason why this is confusing).

The votes already cast by the time the third couple is eliminated are carried through, and the remaining two couples are awarded either 3 or 2 points, to add to their initial judges scorings (in this case 1 and 2).

Every couple in Saturday's show got a combined total of 4 at the end of the evening. The winner was decided on the basis of weighting toward the highest audience score.

Yes, every time the most popular of the last two wins. But that's because, in 5 out of the 6 vote combinations, the most popular contestant wins. Look at the thread 'The Maths' for a fuller deconstruction of how the voting works.

ok, I apologise.
I made the assumption that Darren and Zoe were in the bottom two - as the last two were in previous weeks. I have just re-watched the results show and in fact my mistake, they only say that they will say who is thru.

I think I have it sussed now!

I also agree that had the judges marked colin top, or joint with zoe top the final outcome would have been different. I thought they had rigged their maths last week - obviously they didn't twig this week!!! Unless they really didn't mind who won - interesting that Arleen said on itt on friday that she didn't mind and anyone could win, and then she and Craig stayed seated while everyone else in the studio stood up !!!!!!!!!!!

When it gets down to the last 2, it's all the voters. Because even if the order from the viewers is the opposite to the judges and both couples get a total of 3, it's always the one with the most viewer votes.

As was evident last night!

Can't argue with that!

What is the point in the final two dancing. If Zoe is out 2 mins before then we must already know whos won it seems silly doing it all on one programme especially with the last dance being a show thing and the losers doing theirs as well anyway

Because those who voted for the third placed couple might just want to swap their allegiance & vote for one of the other couples; the voting lines are re-opened & it could possibly swing the result in an unexpected direction.

Additionally, all three couples will have put a lot of effort into their show dance, so it's only fair to let all of them perform it.

I'm still a bit confused - are the people who have argued that "Colin being first with the judges = Colin wins despite getting less votes the Darren" right or wrong?

(and how come Glen & I are always here at the same time?!)

Don't know about you, but can't stand soap operas myself & have to have something interesting to do.

It would make more sense for the judges plus public vote to decide final two with public vote putting first past the post with viewers.

If not why have the "dance off"?

Let us not forget it is all for charity in the end with CIN getting the pounds from phone votes.

It's not quite that cut and dried. Firstly, it's only obvious that Darren is in the winning spot if you have figured out the exact maths of the situation. Secondly, it's still possible for Colin to turn it round.

The only thing I'd query is this:


I don't think that's quite right. I don't think they are given a new points score (1 and 2) based on their original position with the judges. I reckon it stays with their original positions (1 and 2), and the points allocated on the audience remain the same as before the freezing (i.e: 3 and 2). The numbers are carried through.


Right. Because if Colin had topped the board, he'd have ended with 5 points, and beaten Darren's 4.

But what would be the point of voting for a couple that can't win (in that situation)?

Not so.

When it comes down to final 2.

Its the one who has the highest public vote that wins.

Doesnt matter what position the judges put them in.

I still disagree. No one has ever said that.

Remember 'phone lines are reopened', implying it's still the same vote as before. The first eliminee is the person 'third at this point in time'. To me, all that implies that the first vote is 'frozen', and then continues - with the contestants still on 3,2,1 points, dependant on placing.

Having said that (and this is the root of the disagreement), as far as I'm aware they've never actually specified whether the votes carry on through, or whether the vote is just turned into a first past the post system.

It would be a nice motivationary tool to see a histogram of each contestants public vote on the screen moving up and down ( as a percentage ). I think they would get more votes that way ( at least more repeat votes ).

As this final proved, every couple can win.

Let's have a theoretical final to clarify things.

Contestant 1: Nigel Harman
Contestant 2: Cat Deeley
Contestant 3: Michael Caine

The contestants dance in the final. Nigel comes top with the judges, Michael comes second, Cat comes third.

At this stage, the points are as follows:

Nigel: 3, Michael: 2, Cat: 1.

The audience vote. By the time of elimination 3:

Cat gets 500,100 votes and (floating) 3 points.
Michael gets 500,000 votes and (floating) 2 points.
Nigel gets 1,000 votes and (floating) 1 point.

All couples have a total of 4. Nigel is eliminated for lowest audience vote.

This is where it gets tricky, due to a lack of clarity, but here are the two possible variations:

1)
Cat gets 500,000 further votes.
Michael get 500,200 further votes.

Now at the top of the audience vote, Michael gets 3 points and grand total of 5.

Cat gets two points for second highest audience vote and gets grand total of 3 and loses.

2)
Cat gets 500,100 further votes.
Michael get 500,000 further votes.

Now at the top of the audience vote, Cat gets 3 points and grand total of 4.

Michael gets two more points, and a grand total of 4. Loses due to lesser public vote.

So, yes, it is easily possible for either couple to win in this situation.

Now, if Colin had been top of the judges score board at the midpoint, and Zoe had still been out, then it would have been impossible for him to lose, regardless of whether Darren was more popular or not, and, yep, completely pointless in voting for him. However, this is the only combination from the six possible audience vote results where the final is in the bag. In every other possible combination, the audience vote wins it.

Personally, as I said above, there seems to be a lack of clarity about precisely how the final section of voting works. I believe the judge's marks are carried through, others don't. I don't think it's been stated either way.

I would add, though, that it seems to me that if the judges marks were going to become irrelevant at the mid stage, and it did come down entirely to the audience vote and first past the vote, they'd mention it. The judges wouldn't keep saying 'our votes are worth half the score' they'd add the corrolory 'except for the final two'.

Or Bruce would say 'it's now down to you at home - the final two are judged purely on the audience vote'. And since he hasn't said that, I think it's safe to assume the final two are marked in exactly the same way as everyone else is.

Just think about this for a minute. Suppose this scenario happened (and it certainly could have done). What are the BBC going to do? If they say "remember, they need your votes to become champion", they are lying, and if (when) it came out there would be a lot of trouble. If they say "oh, whatever happens, Colin's won already" the viewers are going to switch over to the X-factor. Neither scenario is believable.

Ergo, I don't think your assumption about the judges scores carrying over is correct.

Presumably you mean 1 point from the public.

(Note how the public is deciding this.)

Why had "Darren won at that stage"?

Why couldn't Colin "overtake him with the public vote"?

Of course, there was no "second public vote"; but there were many more votes; and those who'd backed Zoe might even switch.

Your analysis doesn't show "the judges' scores decided the outcome". For one thing, it involves Zoe being last in the public vote. The public has some say in that, surely?