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Currently watching freeview, don't want to pay for TV, any point buying HDTV?


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Old 24-12-2005, 16:27
mrbenny
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Is HDTV just a gimmick and a reason to be conned into paying £30+ a month, or will we see free to air satellite/freeview?

So if someone only watches Freeview, will they ever get better quality? What about after the analogue switchoff?
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Old 24-12-2005, 17:13
Rolnikov
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If you aren't getting an Xbox 360 or PS3, there probably isn't much point in getting one just yet. Wait till HDTV turns up on Freeview, and buy a new tv then.
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Old 24-12-2005, 17:32
Jarrak
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Originally Posted by mrbenny
Is HDTV just a gimmick and a reason to be conned into paying £30+ a month, or will we see free to air satellite/freeview?

So if someone only watches Freeview, will they ever get better quality? What about after the analogue switchoff?



HD is here to stay and is part of a global standard however in the UK there is no plans to stop SD broadcasting so if you are happy with what you have then no worries.
Paying a subscription regarless of the price is hardly a con, you may not regard it as good value but that is totally different matter
Don't forget to see real benefits of HD you will need a HD display and at this time the only practical way to record HD will be via DVR's like SKY+ HD and the TW/NTL offerings.

The BBC will broadcast FTA HD and that is likely to appear on digital satellite and cable first, at this time there is little economic incentive for the other big 3 commercial broadcasters to follow suit but in time they will be forced to offer HD content.
DTT due to it's restricted capacity and coverage will not have any true domestic HD services until such time as analogue is shutdown and that won't be finished until 2012.
Lets hope that advances in compression (mpeg4 being used by SKY and NTL) and reduced prices for HD receivers will allow DTT in time to offering genuine HD channels.
It just won't happen as quickly as Dsat and Cable.
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Old 24-12-2005, 17:44
Trevor
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Originally Posted by mrbenny
Is HDTV just a gimmick and a reason to be conned into paying £30+ a month, or will we see free to air satellite/freeview?

So if someone only watches Freeview, will they ever get better quality? What about after the analogue switchoff?

I have Freeview on my Panasonic 26LCD (HI Def ready) I find that the Freeview has a softer image to my Sky Box.

I think i will be waiting for the Hi def Sky + box
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Old 24-12-2005, 18:57
russellelly
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There's a very good chance that BBC/ITV content will be FTA, and obtainable via any HiDef DSat receiver (MPEG4 compatible). OTOH a set with a PAL native resolution (like the Sharp P series IIRC) will look better for now, as they don't upscale, but HD is undeniably the future. Of course, remember that Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD will quite possibly be the big thing this time next year.
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Old 25-12-2005, 14:52
camaj
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Originally Posted by mrbenny
Is HDTV just a gimmick and a reason to be conned into paying £30+ a month?
Hardly a con, if you pay your subs (which in Germany are £10 a channel if you don't subscribe to the entire package) you get what you pay for. If you don't think that's worth it then there'd be no point getting it

If you really don't like the idea of paying subs to watch HD then all you can do is wait for Freeview HD which is probably 5 years away at least or get Blu-ray to watch pre-recorded films when it's launched in the Spring.

The new consoles will output HD images for the games
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Old 26-12-2005, 19:32
Scrumdiddly
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I think for most people, the draw will be blu-ray/hd-dvd movies. If you absolutely must see the HD version of ****ing American Chopper and Time Team on Discovery, since that's all they ever seem to show, then go ahead.

Of course, how many people will replace their entire movie collection? No, it'll be a looong time before it really becomes the standard.
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Old 26-12-2005, 21:35
partridge
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But you won't need to replace your entire collection, all HD players will support existing DVD's - what will probably happen though is that all new movies will be available in both formats, with a few classics being remastered in HD.

But I can't see old movies being released on HD the way pretty much every movie ever made was eventually released on DVD.

But Star Wars is a certainty for 2007! 6 movie boxset, mmmm!
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Old 26-12-2005, 21:54
camaj
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Originally Posted by Scrumdiddly
I think for most people, the draw will be blu-ray/hd-dvd movies. If you absolutely must see the HD version of ****ing American Chopper and Time Team on Discovery, since that's all they ever seem to show, then go ahead.
Hopefully they'll source a lot more stuff from the US discovery channel, they have some fairly interesting stuff. I don't agree that Blu-ray will be the main draw since more choice and a larger volume will be on SkyHD. Both will have films but for TV shows, documentaries and Sport you'll need Sky

of course, how many people will replace their entire movie collection? No, it'll be a looong time before it really becomes the standard.
I don't think anyone will replace their entire collection, I know I won't. I've got a number of discs that I wish I hadn't bought and some that are okay but not enough to rebuy. There's also a number of DVD's that I really wanted but haven't got yet and I'll wait for their Blu-ray versions to arrive
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Old 26-12-2005, 23:28
Jarrak
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Never came close to replacing my VHS collection with DVD although my Laserdiscs came pretty close
DVD through a good scaler is more than adequate for the majority of my collection.

I would expect to probably replace around 10% of my current DVD collection with HD media but all new movies would hopefully be bought in HD making allowances for a brief format war
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Old 27-12-2005, 02:25
thms
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Originally Posted by partridge
But I can't see old movies being released on HD the way pretty much every movie ever made was eventually released on DVD
old technicolour films will look stunning on hdtv
thanks to ultra resolution digital remastering
http://warnervideo.com/gonewiththewind/
i found this on the gone with the wind website
a mini documentary will start to download
it's worth a watch and quite interesting..but just
click on ..movie clips and click on the word restoring
(just under the picture of scarlett and rhett)
a new window will open and a small windows media player appear.
click on the change player settings and choose the
quicktime player and 300k cable/lan option
a documentary will start detailing the amazing discoveries
which has brought out the spectacular high resolution
contained in old films. there are clips from films like
the adventures of robin hood, meet me in st louis
and singing in the rain. i was surprised to learn
gone with the wind has the highest resolution on any dvd
and it was always there in the original technicolour print
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Old 27-12-2005, 13:11
sanderton
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Originally Posted by partridge
But I can't see old movies being released on HD the way pretty much every movie ever made was eventually released on DVD.
That's what they said about DVD. You think Hollywood will pass up the chnace to sell you the films all over again?
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Old 27-12-2005, 15:43
David (2)
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Its likely that at some point in the future High Def will arrive on Freeview. Sky and Cable will be there first, but subscription will be required unless you just get the free BBC High def channels on satellite.

Apart from this, there will be High Def DVD in 2 formats, HD-DVD and Sonys Blue Ray.

On top of that there is the Xbox360 which offers high Def support but only on existing DVD discs, and in 2006 there will be the all singing all dancing Sony PS3 which will offer high def games and movies on Blue Ray discs.

So if are thinking about getting any of this High Def equipment in the next couple of years, get a tv which is "HD Ready" and has at least 1 HDMI socket (more if possible). Just remember, most of us keep tv's longer than things like Sky, Freeview, Cable, Games equipment.


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Old 28-12-2005, 18:37
danow
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Make sure you get a TV that is HD ready for the right type of HDTV. I don't want to cause confusion but there's no point buying the lower-spec 720 line HDTV when UK broadcasters are expected to go for the high-spec 1080p/50 line version . The BBCs engineering advice line might be able to advise, but the format to be used has not been definitely decided yet.

This is from the EBU website "As 1080p/50 offers future-proofing of valuable content, the EBU is keen to promote its adoption in the longer term." I wonder how many currently available HDTV sets really offer this option?
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Old 29-12-2005, 02:41
camaj
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Originally Posted by danow
I wonder how many currently available HDTV sets really offer this option?
1080p displays? None as far as I know and only a few in the USA
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Old 29-12-2005, 03:40
Jarrak
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Originally Posted by danow
Make sure you get a TV that is HD ready for the right type of HDTV. I don't want to cause confusion but there's no point buying the lower-spec 720 line HDTV when UK broadcasters are expected to go for the high-spec 1080p/50 line version . The BBCs engineering advice line might be able to advise, but the format to be used has not been definitely decided yet.

This is from the EBU website "As 1080p/50 offers future-proofing of valuable content, the EBU is keen to promote its adoption in the longer term." I wonder how many currently available HDTV sets really offer this option?


Totally agree about buying HD Ready but 99%+ of HD Ready displays are not capable of displaying 1920*1080 source material 1:1. So unless you are very wealthy then the lower resolution HD Ready panels are more practical and better value in the short to medium term.
Not forgetting that SKY have stated 720p will be choice for sports coverage, no word on SKY1 or Movie channels.

Yes 1080p is future proof but the quote is regarding the production side of the industry not the broadcast side. Yes in time 1080p broadcasts may be the norm but not for many years and certainly not with mpeg2 or perhaps even mpg4.
Pre-recorded media and broadband may be a different matter but in a year or two when those platforms have arrived 1920*1080 panels that accept 1080p sources may be mainstream especially in regards to price points.

Taking all that into consideration I wouldn't advise someone not to buy a HD Ready display just because it isn't 1920*1080 resolution or not even capable of accepting a 1080p source.
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Old 29-12-2005, 03:44
Jarrak
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Originally Posted by camaj
1080p displays? None as far as I know and only a few in the USA



Only seen two plasmas below 50" that are 1920*1080 and accept 1080p sources both for the Japanese market, not seen any LCD either that were confirmed to accept 1080p.
Having said that I'm only doing some light browsing so it's certainly no the final word on the matter

No doubt the market will start to grow especially in the higher price bands with 1080p panels but it may take a lot longer to get to a viable price point for the mass market, far longer than the current 720p(ish) panels achieved that mark.
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Old 29-12-2005, 21:55
danow
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Originally Posted by Jarrak

Yes 1080p is future proof but the quote is regarding the production side of the industry not the broadcast side. Yes in time 1080p broadcasts may be the norm but not for many years and certainly not with mpeg2 or perhaps even mpg4.
Taking all that into consideration I wouldn't advise someone not to buy a HD Ready display just because it isn't 1920*1080 resolution or not even capable of accepting a 1080p source.
People in the BBC have stated that in 2006 they intend to meet with other broadcasters with a view to 1080p becoming the defacto standard for UK broadcasters. Of course, for someone who wants to buy HDTV now there isn't much option. I find it reassuring that the BBC is going for a high technical standard.
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Old 29-12-2005, 22:18
ejim03
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If 1080p is a possibility I'd like to hang on until they are about. I'd hate nothing more than to spend what little money I have on a HD Ready set that isn't right for something that might happen in the next 10 years.

I'd quite like to see some of the German HD channels, but my SkyStar2 card/PC only shows them for about 10 seconds before pixellating.
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Old 29-12-2005, 23:20
Jarrak
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Originally Posted by danow
People in the BBC have stated that in 2006 they intend to meet with other broadcasters with a view to 1080p becoming the defacto standard for UK broadcasters. Of course, for someone who wants to buy HDTV now there isn't much option. I find it reassuring that the BBC is going for a high technical standard.



Can you back that statement up?
Sorry to sound sceptical but I don't believe for a second the BBC have any real intent to adopt 1080p broadcasting on DTT, Dsat or Cable in the short or mid-term if only due to economic concerns of bandwidth requirments even using mpeg4.
It'll be interesting to see what broadcasters the BBC might be talking to considering ITV, CH4, Five and virtually every multichannel providor haven't even hinted at any sort of HD.

So if you have a web link, internal memo or perhaps you work for the BBC that'll be just dandy

My opinion only of course but your desire for 1080p is only confusing matters especially for people who come to these forums for advice on what to buy.
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Old 30-12-2005, 10:40
sanderton
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If the BBC are thinking about having ameeting next year, then that should mean that something happens some time in the middle of the next decade.

Again, I suspect thay are looking to standardise on a production standard, not a boradcast one.

I agree with Jarrak, all this 1080p talk is clearly confusing people. To be clear, there are no plans for 1080p to be a broadcast format at any point in the foreseeable future. Disk based 1080p movie content may become available at some point in the next 12 months or so, but at present it is far from clear that it will offer any quality improvement from the current HD standards as there is no theoretical difference beteen a 24fps film shown in 1080i/50 and 1080p/50.
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Old 02-01-2006, 22:47
danow
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Originally Posted by Jarrak
Can you back that statement up?...

So if you have a web link, internal memo or perhaps you work for the BBC that'll be just dandy

My opinion only of course but your desire for 1080p is only confusing matters especially for people who come to these forums for advice on what to buy.
This is not "my desire for 1080p". My comment is purely based on what I have heard first hand. I do not wish to confuse but to inform. I will bow out unless I hear something new.

Last edited by danow : 02-01-2006 at 23:22.
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Old 03-01-2006, 15:21
Jarrak
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Originally Posted by danow
This is not "my desire for 1080p". My comment is purely based on what I have heard first hand. I do not wish to confuse but to inform. I will bow out unless I hear something new.



Fair enough but any talk of broadcast 1080p is very premature (I beleive )but by no means did I wish to imply you were setting out to deliberatley confuse the issue.

Any input/opinion be it from a potential customer (like me), an industry insider or someone one step removed is more than welcome so I hope you continue to contribute, there is plenty of room for all
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Old 04-01-2006, 08:59
David (2)
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So a lot of the "HD Ready" displays work with 720p and 1080i High Def, but not 1080p. And 1080p could be used at some point? If so, that content would not work on a current 720p/1080i "HD Ready" display. A case of the technology moving on too quickly again me thinks - a bit like the DAB quality issue, and the fact that in the future DAB could switch to "AAC encoding" rather than the current "mp2 encoding" - again, content on one is not compatible with the other.

If I had just bought a "HD Ready" tv, I would be very concerned that 1080p could be used at some point.

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Old 04-01-2006, 15:04
Jarrak
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Originally Posted by David (2)

If I had just bought a "HD Ready" tv, I would be very concerned that 1080p could be used at some point.

Dave




I think that is why even talking about 1080p as an expected broadcast format can confuse matters.
The HD Ready spec created by the EICTA supports current and expected future broadcasts within the framework the EBU and associated EU broadcasters support, 1080p broadcasting is not one of them.

It may be as mentioned that 1080p sits aside 720p and 1080i on technical papers and may even go as far as being trialed. However due to the industry supporting HD Ready spec there will be means for the expected pre-recorded 1080p sources to be viewed on displays which don't accept that format which is perhaps 99.9% of displays at this time.
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