I know... isn't it fantastic!!!

Having said that, my theories were nowhere near "Bad Wolf" last series, so I'm probably way off!

There were times when we were soooo close to nailing it..I even suggested Rose at one point but didn't have the courage of my convictions to see it through as got sidetracked with the various red herrings scattered throughout.

Still it is all part of the fun and gives us hours of endless debate, discussion and speculation to look forward to.

I suppose if you took all of the red herrings out of the last series which would have made for an amazing storyline if they were real clues, then what you were left with was a linear story that wasn't half as good as a story would have been if the red herrings were real clues that lead to a climactic conclusion.

Well I think a couple of people DID nail it pretty much, if my memory of an earlier thread serves me right. Well as much as what was humanly possible.

When 'Bad Wolf' was spray painted onto the Tardis, I think one of the very first things at least a couple of people said that it could have been, was that it was possibly a warning from the future.
Which was close enough.

RTD was apparently gloating and quoted as saying "I can't believe that nobody got it".
I remember him scoffing at a few viewers ideas, then saying something like a "Truman Show" scenario would be rubbish.
(Which is a bit of an odd thing to say, as 'The Truman Show' was a great story for a start).
He was quoted as saying ...."As if ", and that he would never rely on a Deux ex Machina end to it all......Sorry Russell, but that's what you ultimately did in the end.
And he obviously didn't REALLY read what people were saying about the grand scale reality show idea. People weren't saying it wouldn't be real, it was just said that people were REALLY watching the Doctor and Rose for real and paying to see it.

It's a shame really, because I think something like that would have been an incredible payoff, and bring a satisfying climax for all. And certainly better than just deciding to make Rose into a God to solve all the problems and loose ends, and make 'Bad Wolf' into a very vague message that Rose was supposed to have understood to mean that she can still save the Doctor ....Why?...I still don't get that. The idea was sound enough, it's just that the actual message came across as very vague and fuzzy. I just don't see why Rose is suddenly going to decide that the meme means she can still save the Doctor.(Shrugs shoulders smiley )

How on earth were people to 'work out' that he was just going to conjure up the Daleks out of nowhere, and just generally introduce a Deux ex Machina?
He didn't even make use of the Dalek from the 'Dalek' episode...He just sort of magicked them up from somewhere that wasn't anything to do with the previous story arc.
Daleks literally plucked out of thin air for nice, easy, convenience....yep, people were really going to work that one out from the clues weren't they?

It was suggested quite early on that the Daleks were making new Daleks out of humans.

People did work out quite a lot from the story that was given to them,....they're not going to be able to 'work out' something from something that isn't there, unless they can read RTD's mind that he was just going to bring in a load of stuff at the last minute that could have been anything he wanted just to end things conveniently.

I have to say that the story arc for series one wasn't as clever as we thought it was going to be, BG.
The buildup to it was great,..it looked good, it's just that the conclusion wasn't as good as all the hard work that went into the plotting earlier on. So, so much more could have been done, and I think RTD missed a few chances.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 29-12-2005 at 03:08

Russell said himself that he just found himself throwing in Bad Wolf references throughout the series when they could have just been included in the last two-parter. I think it would have made more sense that instead of casting the words Bad Wolf throughout space and time (or whatever...) she just placed them near her estate in 2005/6 so that she would know she could get back to the Doctor. This would have been more clever and less random.

Maybe it would have been even better if the Tardis itself sent the Bad Wolf message because it knew the Doctor was in danger. Or something...

OK, the website is now working so I have uploaded the high-quality wav file, which can be found here.

This version should work with practically all media players.

Thank you - got it.

Whereabouts in the episode is this bit? I looked at 4.07, and that's where the Doctor says "Merry Christmas"

Lets hope that RTD isn't so smug this time around and has carefully planned his story arc strategy that does have a decent pay off in the end.

i think that many many people were annoyed by the ultimate payoff from season one. dont get me wrong, the final ep was an absolute barnstormer, but there was a lot of stuff conjured up in the name of convenience.. i remember seeing an interview in which rtd said that the final ep would tie up all the lose ends, and would involve a number of characters already seen in the series. i assumed from that we would see something of adam, maybe the face of boe, perhaps cassandra. instead what we got was bloomin mickey again!

i understand there was a lot left to tie up, maybe some of that will be addressed in season two, i still like the idea that adam might be involved with the cybermen in some way. i would love to see a more involved story arc with information being seeded through each episode and genuinely contributing towards the ultimate climax of the season. i just dont feel this was the case in season one.

the christmas invasion may have been the starting point for the season arc pointers, i suspect we havent seen the last of the sygorax

I suspect we may see them in Torchwood - man in mask = cheaper than CGI, therefore more suited to a (presumably) lower budgeted series.

You mean a poor mans Doctor Who!

Only teasing..hoping that whilst they might not have a huge budget they will pull out as many stops that are available and affordable so every ep won't be a man in a mask. Have to say though the make up and costume designers do a bloody good job on Who going on what we saw in the last series and in TCI.

Bloody hell, you lot have started early!!

I think I'll hold off till the start of the series before searching for a possible story-arc

But why Mark? It's been so BOOOOORING here with only Lost to talk about


Or a rich man's 80's Doctor Who

The big problem was not with RTD - the problem was really down to us. We allowed our imaginations a free rein, and came up with all sorts of story arcs, all sorts of links and possibilities. It went on so long, I think that we convinced ourselves that we knew where the story arc was heading (in reality, we did not). RTD did try and feed us by way of a few interviews, but at that point he was toying with us (and probably having a good laugh at some of the wilder bits of speculation, and noting down some of the intelligent stuff for future use no doubt )

Well, Adam was touted as a genius. It's quite possible that, although he retains none of the knowledge he downloaded in the future, he could have reverse-engineered the implant to work out the technology used to create it.

Who knows what he might have discovered if he did that?

Hmm... reverse-engineering alien technology. That reminds me of something!

Like you Den I always thought that Adam should return as there is still a lot of potential with this character which is was never quite realised in the two stories he appeared him but perhaps that was just setting the stage for later on. I certainly wouldn't be happy if someone abandoned me on Earth with that implant, took away my chance of using that information from Satellite 5 and wouldn't take me in the TARDIS as they were not as good as Rose.
Last edited by Black Guardian : 30-12-2005 at 11:56

Bruno langley said he would have loved to return but wasnt asked.

but he could be covering up....Adam could be involved with the cybermen as he knows knoledge bout them as he worked in that musem where one was kept.

i think he should return at some point cus the character of Adam can develop much more and it seems dumb to leave it at the point where he was taken home to his mom and we dont find out what happens to him

Maybe we will see him as an older Adam, which is why Bruno hasn't been asked back?

i dont like when they do that, its better just use prosthetics on the young actors to age them.

But time travel is a very strong theme in Doctor Who so it's not inconceivable that the Doctor might meet Adam when he's in his 50s, for example.

I know which character you are thinking of in series two but why would he change his name/identity or do you think RTD might be trying to throw us off the scent?

I think that, if the S1 arc was anything to go by, RTD can't think at our (that's DS FMs in general, not trying to include myself particularly) advanced level - so it's more likely that he hasn't thought of it (yet!!).

(only kidding RTD - )

K

One possible yet remote possibility would be that Adam may be the Cyber Leader - or has been converted - or something.

Ah! Adam being the blueprint for the rest of the Cyber race. Nice idea.

Well, we have very little in the way of hard facts to go on at the moment, so this is all guesswork and speculation (as if I would get involved in such a thing. )

The only connection I have is that

Adam certainly has the motive to be evil (he's been altered and abandoned, left to fester with that for possibly decades) and he was described as a genius. That kind of combination could be a very powerful driving force for the character.

Other than that, IMDB has been used to mislead us before (remember the entries for The Watcher and Davros which appeared on there just prior to the broadcasting of The Parting of the Ways?)