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Old 01-01-2006, 23:23
Jedi Master
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Hopfully i will order a DVB-T Card this week so im also lokking to get the best picture possible. Now im thinking of getting a nice new shiny ariel. Now i was looking at the Philex 32 element high gain ariel that argos sell for 19.99. Does anyone here have it, and how good is it.

My next question is which way does need to point, do i just point it the same way as the old ariels that are already on my roof ? or is it like with the sky dish has to point a certan way at a certan angle. Whats the best wway to test, just trial and error. Install dvb-t card,plug the ariel in a move it about a tad till i get a spot on picture.

Lastly, the ariel in argos comes with cable but just in case its a low quality cable, whats a good high quality replacement ? screwfix sell....
PH100 Satellite cable
PF100 Coaxial cable
RG6 Satelitte cable
RG59 Coaxial cable
Standard Coaxial cable
a standard satellite cable

The first two cost the most, the last two are the cheapest.

Thanks for any help.
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Old 02-01-2006, 00:21
jonb
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Originally Posted by Jedi Master
Hopfully i will order a DVB-T Card this week so im also lokking to get the best picture possible. Now im thinking of getting a nice new shiny ariel. Now i was looking at the Philex 32 element high gain ariel that argos sell for 19.99. Does anyone here have it, and how good is it.

My next question is which way does need to point, do i just point it the same way as the old ariels that are already on my roof ? or is it like with the sky dish has to point a certan way at a certan angle. Whats the best wway to test, just trial and error. Install dvb-t card,plug the ariel in a move it about a tad till i get a spot on picture.

Lastly, the ariel in argos comes with cable but just in case its a low quality cable, whats a good high quality replacement ? screwfix sell....
PH100 Satellite cable
PF100 Coaxial cable
RG6 Satelitte cable
RG59 Coaxial cable
Standard Coaxial cable
a standard satellite cable

The first two cost the most, the last two are the cheapest.

Thanks for any help.
Given this can be a minefield and the nature of your questions, I'd suggest you either look to use an existing aerial that works with Freeview or pay for a professional installer.
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Old 02-01-2006, 00:29
Sonnet79
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Originally Posted by Jedi Master
Hopfully i will order a DVB-T Card this week so im also lokking to get the best picture possible. Now im thinking of getting a nice new shiny ariel. Now i was looking at the Philex 32 element high gain ariel that argos sell for 19.99. Does anyone here have it, and how good is it.

My next question is which way does need to point, do i just point it the same way as the old ariels that are already on my roof ? or is it like with the sky dish has to point a certan way at a certan angle. Whats the best wway to test, just trial and error. Install dvb-t card,plug the ariel in a move it about a tad till i get a spot on picture.

Lastly, the ariel in argos comes with cable but just in case its a low quality cable, whats a good high quality replacement ? screwfix sell....
PH100 Satellite cable
PF100 Coaxial cable
RG6 Satelitte cable
RG59 Coaxial cable
Standard Coaxial cable
a standard satellite cable

The first two cost the most, the last two are the cheapest.

Thanks for any help.
I guess it depends on your location really.

I live relatively close to the Crystal Palace transmitter, so i get away with the aerial thats been sitting on our chimney for ten years.

We don't have the best cabling in the world, but i think we get away with that because of our location.

I'm assuming you already have an external aerial. Is there anyway you can get a hold of a freeview box on loan to test it's capabilities? It would seem a shame to spend out on equipment you may not neccesarily need?
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Old 02-01-2006, 00:53
andy_tech
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Put your postcode in this website then it will tell you the local transmitters and also the bearing in degrees, so you can roughly align the aerial with a compass.

Wolfbane digital TV reception predictor

A signal meter is best to align it accurately, but if doing it by trial and error then it would be best to use a normal analogue TV to find the best position, as the digital picture will suddenly jump from good to pixellated.

For the cable I would choose the satellite type or either the PF100 or PH100. If it is OK for satellite then it should be fine for the lower frequency digital TV, and should also have a foil screen.
Avoid the standard TV coax or types without a foil screen.
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:35
Jedi Master
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well there is already two ariels on the roof but they are already connected to tv's so i would need to get a cable splitter. New cable would be a must as the cable thats connected at the mo is the old brown stuff and its been there for years.

I was looking at a new ariel as one i thought maybe i would get a better image plus that one in argos says it has something for anti ghosting.(theres the tinyest of ghost on the tv the ariel is connected to. Plus i thought a nice shiny new ariel would look sweet.
Once i get the DVB-T card i could test ariels that are already there i guess, dont know anyone with a freeview box.

Im in east london, that link you gave said Crystal Palace is 10M bearing degrees is 198, this site http://www.dtg.org.uk/ say's..
Crystal Palace
BBC Region: London
ITV Region: Carlton/LWT
Switchover: 2012
Muxes received: ALL
Compass bearing: 200
Distance: 15 kilometres
Aerial group: A Horizontal
Location: Grid Ref TQ339712
Aerial elevation: 302 metres

So from these i would say the ariel should be between 198 and 200 degrees right. The ariel its self would be straight right pointing say 199 degrees.

Oh im not going to pay someone to fit a ariel, we moved our sky dish fine, since moving it the image quality is better and the signal strength and quality very very good.

Just out of interest how much is a signal meter ?
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:53
ogglebox
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Personally, I wouldn't use washing powder to recieve TV signals, I'd use an Aerial with CT100 satellite cable and some of the all-metal type coaxial plugs (not ones made with chap plastic or any screw-clamp types).
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Old 02-01-2006, 15:48
Jedi Master
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washing poweder ? lost me on that one. So is there much difference between CT100 and PH100 Satellite cable ?. So satellite cable cable works fine with a ariel both analogue and digital... guessing the quality of the cable is better... sweet.
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Old 02-01-2006, 15:49
mrfreeview
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Originally Posted by Jedi Master
well there is already two ariels on the roof but they are already connected to tv's so i would need to get a cable splitter. New cable would be a must as the cable thats connected at the mo is the old brown stuff and its been there for years.

I was looking at a new ariel as one i thought maybe i would get a better image plus that one in argos says it has something for anti ghosting.(theres the tinyest of ghost on the tv the ariel is connected to. Plus i thought a nice shiny new ariel would look sweet.
Once i get the DVB-T card i could test ariels that are already there i guess, dont know anyone with a freeview box.

Im in east london, that link you gave said Crystal Palace is 10M bearing degrees is 198, this site http://www.dtg.org.uk/ say's..
Crystal Palace
BBC Region: London
ITV Region: Carlton/LWT
Switchover: 2012
Muxes received: ALL
Compass bearing: 200
Distance: 15 kilometres
Aerial group: A Horizontal
Location: Grid Ref TQ339712
Aerial elevation: 302 metres

Just out of interest how much is a signal meter ?
Can I suggest that as your only 10 miles from Crystal Palace which has an ERP of 20KW for DVB-T that you can dispense with even having to think about a signal stregth meter, for the moment.

Quite honestly, because of your location, this is what I would do:

I would connect my new DVB-T card or STB onto the existing aerial. See what you get.

Firstly your existing antenna will be a Group 'A' which is enough for DVB-T from Crystal Palace and secondly your so close to the TX. Field strength shouldn't be problem.

If you find you have problems with impulsive noise then a new coaxial cable may be all you need, from the existing antenna.

If you find that all is OK and you have a good signal strength then a good quality spiltter may be all you then need to split the signal between your DVB-T receiver and your traditional TV setup.

www.screwfix.co.uk item 63654-79 would be ideal.

How do I come to this conclusion. Well I used to live in St Albans (approx 22 miles to C.Palace) with a 1988 installed Group A pointing to the Palace. The antenna was nothing fancy, 18 elements no balum or anything clever like that connected with the old 'low loss' coaxial , and my DVB-T worked fine.

Can I suggest that you disclose your posting code then we can look up your line of sight.
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Old 02-01-2006, 16:15
Jedi Master
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Yeah thats the splitter i was looking at. Cable wise i proberly would change it anyways, whats theres bean there donkeys years. Proberly that PH100 cabel, should be fine for the standard analogue signal for the tv.

How do i check my line of sight and what will this help with ??

Oh whats TX ?
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Old 02-01-2006, 20:08
mrfreeview
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Originally Posted by Jedi Master
Yeah thats the splitter i was looking at. Cable wise i proberly would change it anyways, whats theres bean there donkeys years. Proberly that PH100 cabel, should be fine for the standard analogue signal for the tv.

How do i check my line of sight and what will this help with ??

Oh whats TX ?
TX = Transmitter.

With respect to line of sight, really just a check to make sure that there is not some large object in between the Transmitter and your RX antenna. If there is something directly between you and the transmitter it will reduce your field strength. If the object, i.e. a hill, was close enough to then you wouldn't be able to RX a signal....at all.
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Old 02-01-2006, 20:17
andy_tech
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To check the line of sight.

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?GridConvert?

Put your postcode in this website to convert to OS map reference.

Take the map reference (labelled LR) and put it into this website (as the base station):

http://www.megalithia.com/elect/terrain.html

Then select the transmitter from the list, or enter the details from Wolfbane.
A terrain plot will be shown, to check if a hill is in the way.
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Old 02-01-2006, 20:42
David (2)
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why not start on the freeview web site.... www.freeview.co.uk

Dave
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Old 02-01-2006, 22:10
Jedi Master
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checked the line of site and there is nothing obstructing the yellow or the pink line from that chart.

Any one have and more on the cable, the PH100 stuff.
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Old 02-01-2006, 22:19
mjk79
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Originally Posted by andy_tech
Take the map reference (labelled LR) and put it into this website (as the base station):

http://www.megalithia.com/elect/terrain.html

Then select the transmitter from the list, or enter the details from Wolfbane.
A terrain plot will be shown, to check if a hill is in the way.
In parts of East London a terrain plot may not be all that much use, considering that the biggest problem with line-of-sight will be man-made (i.e. this lot: http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/...rf_450x330.jpg) rather than natural terrain.
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Old 02-01-2006, 22:43
andy_tech
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Agreed, the terrain plot does not include man made obstructions or nearby big trees, it is more useful if you are in a hilly area or further away from the transmitter.
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Old 02-01-2006, 22:55
Jedi Master
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Good point....

PH100 Satellite cable, just before i go and buy the reel from screwfix just to double check, is works with both digital and analogue sat so i'm guessing it will also work fine with both digital freeview and stanard analogue tv right ?
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Old 02-01-2006, 23:02
tivo1977
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Originally Posted by ogglebox
Personally, I wouldn't use washing powder to recieve TV signals, I'd use an Aerial with CT100 satellite cable and some of the all-metal type coaxial plugs (not ones made with chap plastic or any screw-clamp types).


Then I noticed you spelt receive wrong!!!!!
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Old 02-01-2006, 23:03
andy_tech
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Yes, PH100 should be fine.
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Old 02-01-2006, 23:56
mrfreeview
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[quote=Jedi Master]Good point....

PH100 Satellite cable, just before i go and buy the reel from screwfix just to double check, is works with both digital and analogue sat so i'm guessing it will also work fine with both digital freeview and stanard analogue tv right ?
/QUOTE]

Yes www.screwfix.co.uk 10633-79 PH100 is OK.

But as I think I have said before give it a go with your current installtion. Why spend money on changing something when you don't have to?
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Old 03-01-2006, 00:04
Fudge
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Whatever aerial/cable you buy, make sure it is CAI benchmarked and you can't go wrong. The 19.99 Philex from Argos is a CAI 3, which is basic, but fine if you are in a good reception area. The cable supplied is RG6, which isn't CAI benchmarked and isn't recommended for external use, as it isn't as well shielded as CT100/H109 or WF100 satellite type cable. It seems that the downlead can be the main source of impulse interference. Megalithia has a test of several cable types and recommendations here:

http://www.megalithia.com/elect/cable/index.

If you don't need 100m of cable, try 30m of WF100 for under 11 from here

http://www.tracsat.co.uk/catalog/wf100-cable-p-123.html
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Old 03-01-2006, 01:26
Jedi Master
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OK, cheers for the help people. Will be ordering my DVB-T card this week hopefully.
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Old 03-01-2006, 01:30
mrfreeview
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Originally Posted by Fudge
The 19.99 Philex from Argos is a CAI 3, which is basic, but fine if you are in a good reception area.
I Guess this antenna, the Argos Philex is a wideband antenna. Why buy this?

Two Reasons why I suggest not:

1. This guy is only 10 Miles from Crystal Palace with an ERP of 20KW on each MUX
2. Crystal Palace DVB-T is in the same band as Analogue: Group 'A'.

Taking both of the above points there is no reason why the existing antenna installation, provided its in reasonable condition, shouldn't be good enough for DVB-T

In fact the existing antenna, by the fact it is grouped will almost centainly have a better forwards gain than the Argos 'offering'.

Remember the forwards gain of a wideband antenna is not linear! There can be something like a 9dB slope between the forwards gain at the top end of the band (ch68) and the bottom end (ch21)
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Old 03-01-2006, 08:08
ogglebox
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Originally Posted by Jedi Master
washing poweder ? lost me on that one. So is there much difference between CT100 and PH100 Satellite cable ?. So satellite cable cable works fine with a ariel both analogue and digital... guessing the quality of the cable is better... sweet.
Ariel and Aerial

Yes, for digital TV, I've been told that Satellite cable is better suited for use with Freeview/Top Up TV as it has better sheilds from interference when compared to normal brown coax. And you can use any length of satellite cable for terrestrial as you like as the losses are very tiny (even that CT63 "shotgun" cable is OK for use with aerials). As for CT/PF100, I think they're the same but I don't actually know, PF might be foam filled whereas CT is air-spaced.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:18
samtheqt
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i have the 20 aerial from argos and its brilliant and easy to put together and install
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Old 03-01-2006, 20:23
billybob
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my advice would be try freeview reception with aerial already there if it doesnt work, change for wideband and 100 coax.

in future crystal palace like all other transmitters, may not use a specific group aerial, as they are going to move all mux frequencies around.
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