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Is music from these days as good as the old stuff?


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Old 09-01-2006, 14:36
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by SGE
burbs is right about their singles, that's for sure:

Weekly position/total weeks in Top 75.

22/10/1966 Cream Wrapping Paper 34 45-{34}-35-37-42-49->6
17/12/1966 Cream I Feel Free 11 50-40-27-25-21-13-{11}-12-16-27-36-49->12
10/06/1967 Cream Strange Brew 17 43-32-22-19-18-{17}-18-29-35->9
08/06/1968 Cream Anyone For Tennis (The Savage Seven Theme) 40 45-{40}-48->3
12/10/1968 Cream Sunshine Of Your Love 25 40-33-{25}-28-30-36-50->7
18/01/1969 Cream White Room 28 48-37-30-31-30-{28}-34-46->8
12/04/1969 Cream Badge 18 43-36-20-28-{18}-25-20-22-31-37->10
28/10/1972 Cream Badge {1972} 42 48-43-{42}-46->4

http://www.polyhex.com/music/chartruns/chartruns.php

Poor SGE, misses the point once again. What were Led Zeppelins chart runs as well??? Ooooh, look, they never released a single while as an active band....because the UK singles chart does not indicate the quality of a band, yet clearly one of the worlds greatest bands ever.

Its desperate and ignorant tactics of these two to provide such irrelevant chart facts. Utter garbage, but amusing because it demonstrates how little they actually value quality of music and instead base it on chart runs!
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Old 09-01-2006, 14:38
SGE
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Originally Posted by BeatleGod
Poor SGE, misses the point once again. What were Led Zeppelins chart runs as well??? Ooooh, look, they never released a single while as an active band....because the UK singles chart does not indicate the quality of a band, yet clearly one of the worlds greatest bands ever.

Its desperate and ignorant tactics of these two to provide such irrelevant chart facts. Utter garbage, but amusing because it demonstrates how little they actually value quality of music and instead base it on chart runs!

Just got up, BeeGee?? Done any editing of your homophobic, libellous posts on that other thread yet?


Edit:

Courtesy of Music Week 9/1/06

Registering its third straight week at number two, and its seventh week in that position overall, James Blunt's Back To Bedlam sold a further 38,530 copies last week - 31.7% down week-on-week - to take its cumulative sales to 2,411,038. It thus overtakes the Scissor Sisters' self-titled debut album to move up to sixth place in the list of best-sellers of the 21st century, trailing only Dido's No Angel (2,984,626 sales), David Gray's White Ladder (2,821,962), Dido's Life For Rent (2,760,700), The Beatles' 1 (2,645,080) and Coldplay's A Rush Of Blood To The Head (2,514,301).

Not long to go, eh?
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Old 09-01-2006, 14:41
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by burbs
I was talking about singles, they never had a UK number 1 single. Talking about albums though, they released 11 in this country and 1 got to the number 1 slot, well done
Errr, thats more than you! Plus their respect in the music industry, sell out gigs and legacy make a total mockery of your dodgy system of rating bands!

As for singles, i've only EVER bought 2 singles in my life, and they were only to complete the entire collection of Beatles material not available on albums/compilations. I don't know anyone that actually buys singles anymore, and back in the 1970s it was usually deemed as very uncool, as it is now, hence acts like S Club 7, Westlife and Shayne Ward "benefiting".
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Old 09-01-2006, 14:43
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by SGE
Just got up, BeeGee?? Done any editing of your homophobic, libellous posts on that other thread yet?
Awww bless, some of us have work to do, but don't be bitter about that, as my work contributes to your dole money.

As for the "editing", no, i think it looks great as it is ta. I suppose the only way you make money is trying to sue people with pointless claims....i bet you are injurylawyers4u.co.uk's best customer!! Keith Miller eat your heart out!!
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Old 09-01-2006, 14:45
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by burbs
I really dont see how people can talk about Cream in the same breath as the beatles and oasis
Oasis would have been one of the greats if they had stopped at Whats the Story (Morning Glory), sadly they have overdone it with a string of uninspired and unoriginal albums.
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Old 09-01-2006, 14:49
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by SGE
Edit:

Courtesy of Music Week 9/1/06

Registering its third straight week at number two, and its seventh week in that position overall, James Blunt's Back To Bedlam sold a further 38,530 copies last week - 31.7% down week-on-week - to take its cumulative sales to 2,411,038. It thus overtakes the Scissor Sisters' self-titled debut album to move up to sixth place in the list of best-sellers of the 21st century, trailing only Dido's No Angel (2,984,626 sales), David Gray's White Ladder (2,821,962), Dido's Life For Rent (2,760,700), The Beatles' 1 (2,645,080) and Coldplay's A Rush Of Blood To The Head (2,514,301).

Not long to go, eh?
Nope, but it hasn't a cat in hells chance of competing with the 4.6m Sgt Peppers has sold in Britain, and 6m is slightly behind the 30m "1" has sold worldwide! But you NEVER know.....Bluntmania could be around the corner.....millions of screaming girls chasing James Blunt because of his exciting middle of the road music!! woooo hoooo!

Quick edit after additional observation. Just read the other albums in the top UK albums of this century.....that is astonishingly bad!! Dido, David Gray and now James Blunt all up there! blimey, i guess women's buying power is stronger than ever!! What a dull selection of "original" albums, even including Coldplays one. Truly is a selection of dinner party dirges!
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Old 09-01-2006, 15:06
Inkblot
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Why the sudden anti-Cream fervour in this thread? Were some of the posters forced to listen to Toad if they didn't eat their tea?

I've been in guitar shops a few times lately and whenever a customer wants to hear what a guitar or an amp can do, they whack up the gain and let rip with that plump blues tone that Clapton used on Strange Brew. It's part of our musical heritage and kids buying their first guitar today still want to play like Eric Clapton used to.
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Old 09-01-2006, 15:12
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by Inkblot
Why the sudden anti-Cream fervour in this thread? Were some of the posters forced to listen to Toad if they didn't eat their tea?

I've been in guitar shops a few times lately and whenever a customer wants to hear what a guitar or an amp can do, they whack up the gain and let rip with that plump blues tone that Clapton used on Strange Brew. It's part of our musical heritage and kids buying their first guitar today still want to play like Eric Clapton used to.
You'll be out of favour with the likes of BURBS and SGE then, because Cream had such a poor chart run!

Claptons guitar playing in Cream was that little bit special, just like Page's for Zep. Awesome. Rock music still rocks, down with the lame lazy pop music our poor reality TV seduced nation has been enduring for the past 10 years. I know this country has dumbed down a lot because of stuff like X-Factor and Pop Idol, but a new revival in rock music will be on the cards soon, surely! Please!
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Old 09-01-2006, 15:16
SGE
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Originally Posted by BeatleGod
Awww bless, some of us have work to do, but don't be bitter about that, as my work contributes to your dole money.

You should try self-employment, BeeGee, no-one telling you when you can post, no-one looking over your shoulder when you are desperately trying to find hard evidence for the random sales figures you spout at night. 'Tis truly a marvellous thing. Why not open a Beatles record shop? Combine business with obsession/pleasure?

So, let me get this correct. So far, according to you, I am

1. Gay.
2. Or a woman.
3. On the dole.
4. A moron.
5. A frequenter of Hampstead Heath at 2 am in the morning with my ipod.

You're good, you should do this for a living, you know. Cracker has nothing on you.

And all because I like an album you don't? Crikey, what tactics would you resort to if we were disagreeing about something that was actually important in the grand scheme of things? This is my last response to you on this thread (no matter what further homophobic stuff you spew forth in response) as it is going rather off-topic....
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Old 09-01-2006, 15:27
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by SGE
You should try self-employment, BeeGee, no-one telling you when you can post, no-one looking over your shoulder when you are desperately trying to find hard evidence for the random sales figures you spout at night. 'Tis truly a marvellous thing. Why not open a Beatles record shop? Combine business with obsession/pleasure?

So, let me get this correct. So far, according to you, I am

1. Gay.
2. Or a woman.
3. On the dole.
4. A moron.
5. A frequenter of Hampstead Heath at 2 am in the morning with my ipod.

You're good, you should do this for a living, you know. Cracker has nothing on you.

And all because I like an album you don't? Crikey, what tactics would you resort to if we were disagreeing about something that was actually important in the grand scheme of things? This is my last response to you on this thread (no matter what further homophobic stuff you spew forth in response) as it is going rather off-topic....

Touched a nerve there! Oooooooh! Don't throw ALL your toys out of the pram at once! Sorry that I wasn't there for you earlier, but I was genuinely busy with important stuff in the real world, but thankfully now that is done, i can wind up certain easy targets on message boards!

I am pissing myself laughing with all this bitterness and resentment you have for someone you'll never know or meet from a message board! Poor diddums, lets hope no one in real life says a bad word to you, otherwise you might just burst into tears and never be able to go out in public again!

Here's something to keep this on topic : OLD music is superior to new music! There said it!
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Old 09-01-2006, 15:40
mushymanrob
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Originally Posted by BeatleGod
Cream don't sound dated. Songs like "White Room" and "Swlabr" are just awesome!

Yardbirds were great as well they kind of evolved into Led Zeppelin didn't they? Not a lot of people know that!

P.S Ignore Burbs comments, he/she has this logic of rating bands purely on 1 week single sales success....so he loves Westlife, Blue and the Spice Girls!

yes... led zep were originaly called 'the new yardbirds'...

cream were so called as arrogantly they believed that they were the best... and they were probably right...


'i feel free' is my fav cream track... in my top 5 of all time..
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Old 09-01-2006, 15:46
TennantsElbow
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Originally Posted by BeatleGod

Here's something to keep this on topic : OLD music is superior to new music! There said it!
I think the only true statement that can be made is that in whatever decade you care to mention most of the best music isn't found in the charts.

I've got stuff from each of the last 5 decades in my very extensive CD collection and in every decade there is great new music.

I probably buy four/five CDs a week on average... mostly new stuff (no chart stuff) but also reissues of older material.

Old music is definitely not superior to new music. New music is definitely not superior to old music. To say either is evidence of a mind closed to new experiences - whether that's looking backwards or forwards.

In whatever decade you care to mention there was dirge being produced. It's just the dirge fades into the background... only the good stuff has staying power and is therefore still listened to.

If you really think there is no amazing music being created today then you're not looking hard enough. Sure you have to search beyond the charts and beyond what most radio stations play and even beyond these shores but it's out there...
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Old 09-01-2006, 17:53
burbs
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Originally Posted by BeatleGod
Errr, thats more than you! Plus their respect in the music industry, sell out gigs and legacy make a total mockery of your dodgy system of rating bands!

As for singles, i've only EVER bought 2 singles in my life, and they were only to complete the entire collection of Beatles material not available on albums/compilations. I don't know anyone that actually buys singles anymore, and back in the 1970s it was usually deemed as very uncool, as it is now, hence acts like S Club 7, Westlife and Shayne Ward "benefiting".
You started throwing the figures about, telling me how amazing the Beatkes are due to the fatc that they sell 3 million albums a week, something which you cannot confirm.

Errr....yes that is more sales than i have made, the same as James Blunt and Shayne Ward have sold more than yourself, point being what?

The way an artists success is measured in the music game is due to how well they do in the charts, whether that is right or wrong doesnt matter, that is how they are judged. Just because you do not like certain music doesnt mean anything. The Beatles were a good band but not the be all and end all. As for Cream, i dont care for them, their Collection album in 2005 reached number 6 in the charts, so obviously a lot of people also feel the same as me.
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Old 09-01-2006, 18:11
TennantsElbow
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Originally Posted by burbs
You started throwing the figures about, telling me how amazing the Beatkes are due to the fatc that they sell 3 million albums a week, something which you cannot confirm.

Errr....yes that is more sales than i have made, the same as James Blunt and Shayne Ward have sold more than yourself, point being what?

The way an artists success is measured in the music game is due to how well they do in the charts, whether that is right or wrong doesnt matter, that is how they are judged. Just because you do not like certain music doesnt mean anything. The Beatles were a good band but not the be all and end all. As for Cream, i dont care for them, their Collection album in 2005 reached number 6 in the charts, so obviously a lot of people also feel the same as me.
Commercial success is measured by the charts but musical merit has got nothing to do with number of albums/singles sold.

You can't judge quality of music by how well it does in the charts. Just because a lot of people like something doesn't make it artistically great. Unchallenging and derivative music is the stuff that pleases the majority and therefore gets in the charts. Not a criticism, just a fact. If you like commercial stuff then good for you but to say that anything that doesn't sell enough to get in the charts is therefore bad is missing the point.
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Old 09-01-2006, 18:18
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by loosefur
Commercial success is measured by the charts but musical merit has got nothing to do with number of albums/singles sold.

You can't judge quality of music by how well it does in the charts. Just because a lot of people like something doesn't make it artistically great. Unchallenging and derivative music is the stuff that pleases the majority and therefore gets in the charts. Not a criticism, just a fact. If you like commercial stuff then good for you but to say that anything that doesn't sell enough to get in the charts is therefore bad is missing the point.
True, and the Beatles although massively commercially successful were also artistically great and pushed the boundaries of music throughout their time. Their best works like Rubber Soul and the White Album didn't have one commercial single on it, as the Beatles knew they were worth more than that.

Most music in the singles chart is cheap and short lived pop.
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Old 09-01-2006, 18:21
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by burbs
You started throwing the figures about, telling me how amazing the Beatkes are due to the fatc that they sell 3 million albums a week, something which you cannot confirm.

Errr....yes that is more sales than i have made, the same as James Blunt and Shayne Ward have sold more than yourself, point being what?

The way an artists success is measured in the music game is due to how well they do in the charts, whether that is right or wrong doesnt matter, that is how they are judged. Just because you do not like certain music doesnt mean anything. The Beatles were a good band but not the be all and end all. As for Cream, i dont care for them, their Collection album in 2005 reached number 6 in the charts, so obviously a lot of people also feel the same as me.

Blimey, I remember when #6 in the album charts was considered reasonable - clearly its got to be top otherwise its a failure!! Lots of people love Cream and have already got there stuff. Many people also don't know who Cream, but would most probably like them if they got into them.

Also, i suspect Eric Clapton has earned more money than Shayne Ward will ever manage.
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Old 09-01-2006, 18:28
SGE
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Originally Posted by loosefur
Commercial success is measured by the charts but musical merit has got nothing to do with number of albums/singles sold.

You can't judge quality of music by how well it does in the charts. Just because a lot of people like something doesn't make it artistically great. Unchallenging and derivative music is the stuff that pleases the majority and therefore gets in the charts. Not a criticism, just a fact. If you like commercial stuff then good for you but to say that anything that doesn't sell enough to get in the charts is therefore bad is missing the point.

Sort of, but to also say that stuff that sells in huge numbers is rubbish can never be established as a fact, it's only a subjective assessment. One person's rubbish is another person's quality. Can't be 'measured', you see. It is usually based on people's OPINION and the more arrogant that person the more it's put forward as fact. And that IS a fact.

Edit: Here's a thought: Any statement that can't be backed up with facts is an OPINION. I could say Sgt Peppers is the BEST UK album ever. Many people may agree, many people may disagree. Correct?

Now, I can say that Sgt Peppers is the biggest selling UK album of all time. ALL the people who don't like the album and ALL the people who like the album HAVE to agree with me here. Because I can PROVE IT. Yes?
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Old 09-01-2006, 18:43
TennantsElbow
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Originally Posted by BeatleGod
True, and the Beatles although massively commercially successful were also artistically great and pushed the boundaries of music throughout their time. Their best works like Rubber Soul and the White Album didn't have one commercial single on it, as the Beatles knew they were worth more than that.

Most music in the singles chart is cheap and short lived pop.
The influence of the Beatles on modern music shouldn't ever be underestimated.

The most telling thing to me about the Beatles and their musical talent is to track their development, from bouncy pop band to experimental artists. Their musical output grew as their own life experience did. Their most interesting work is the later stuff because it was less commercial - they challenged expectations. Great art - be it music, painting, writing etc - should challenge the audience.

The sign of a truly great artist is one who changes, develops and grows throughout their career. An artist who simply regurgitates the same stuff over and over may well sell lots of records but artistically their merit is limited.
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Old 09-01-2006, 18:49
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by SGE
Edit: Here's a thought: Any statement that can't be backed up with facts is an OPINION. I could say Sgt Peppers is the BEST UK album ever. Many people may agree, many people may disagree. Correct?

Now, I can say that Sgt Peppers is the biggest selling UK album of all time. ALL the people who don't like the album and ALL the people who like the album HAVE to agree with me here. Because I can PROVE IT. Yes?
Its not about the sales though, its about opinions and so forth. I buy lots of albums i end up hating, just because i bought it, doesn't mean i like it!

Polls are a better indicator....the Beatles 5 big LP's : Revolver, Peppers, White Album, Rubber Soul and Abbey Road frequently top, or get in the top 20 best albums ever consistently....that to me is a better indication. The worlds biggest selling album Thriller, is not always in those polls....but then that could be down to the fact that people hate Jacko and his dirtness.
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Old 09-01-2006, 18:55
TennantsElbow
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Originally Posted by SGE
Sort of, but to also say that stuff that sells in huge numbers is rubbish can never be established as a fact, it's only a subjective assessment. One person's rubbish is another person's quality. Can't be 'measured', you see. It is usually based on people's OPINION and the more arrogant that person the more it's put forward as fact. And that IS a fact.

Edit: Here's a thought: Any statement that can't be backed up with facts is an OPINION. I could say Sgt Peppers is the BEST UK album ever. Many people may agree, many people may disagree. Correct?

Now, I can say that Sgt Peppers is the biggest selling UK album of all time. ALL the people who don't like the album and ALL the people who like the album HAVE to agree with me here. Because I can PROVE IT. Yes?
Of course people like different stuff. As an inidividual you like what you like and your opinion to yourself is as valid as anyones.... BUT

and this argument crops up time after time...

music is art...

great art pushes boundaries and challenges expectations.

You might not like Sgt Peppers but you can't deny that as a work of art it pushed back the boundaries of what was then expected of a Beatles album and raised the bar for everyone else.

It's this sort of music that influences other artists, that inspires them to bettering their own work and is still talked about generations later.

If you simply want to listen to music and never be unsettled, or surprised, or jolted out of your seat, or challenged in anyway then the majority of chart music will work great for you... Nothing wrong with that.

Better is subjective. Influencial is not.

Ask any musician of skill and passion - you can bet they don't sit around listening to Shayne Ward.

Just as any writer of literary works won't sit around reading Mills & Boon
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Old 09-01-2006, 19:04
SULLA
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Originally Posted by stin74
I think most rap is appalling,
Strongly disagree. It is ALL appalling

whats called r n b isnt.
R n b in the good old days used to be more akin to rock and roll with stars like Chuck Berry.

and has everything that can be done in music already been done but better?
NOT everything. good songs always come around but for me the golden age was the 60's
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Old 09-01-2006, 19:04
SGE
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Originally Posted by BeatleGod
Its not about the sales though, its about opinions and so forth. I buy lots of albums i end up hating, just because i bought it, doesn't mean i like it!

Polls are a better indicator....the Beatles 5 big LP's : Revolver, Peppers, White Album, Rubber Soul and Abbey Road frequently top, or get in the top 20 best albums ever consistently....that to me is a better indication. The worlds biggest selling album Thriller, is not always in those polls....but then that could be down to the fact that people hate Jacko and his dirtness.

Are you sure you want be stating polls are a better indicator of quality, BeeGee? (I'm thinking of the recent BBC poll of all time best songs) The problem with polls is that responding to them is by no means compulsory so you only get the real music enthusiast responding. That in no way means the results are in any way representative of the general public's view. Again, it's just a usually small group of people who think their OPINION carries more weight. It's (AGAIN) not fact. Can't be. Can't be measured and to think opinion can be is arrogant.
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Old 09-01-2006, 19:13
BeatleGod
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Originally Posted by SGE
Are you sure you want be stating polls are a better indicator of quality, BeeGee? (I'm thinking of the recent BBC poll of all time best songs) The problem with polls is that responding to them is by no means compulsory so you only get the real music enthusiast responding. That in no way means the results are in any way representative of the general public's view. Again, it's just a usually small group of people who think their OPINION carries more weight. It's (AGAIN) not fact. Can't be. Can't be measured and to think opinion can be is arrogant.
I am sure that the BBC poll had plenty of Beatles/Beatles solo songs in them just like the Virgin Radio poll had over 40 in the top 500. Best albums are very much the same as well.

The Beatles are CONSISTENTLY throughout the world amongst the elite in these polls, and that carries the weight.

Send me a link to this BBC poll....i bet its not as bad for the Beatles as you make out!!

Incidentally, i am not THAT lazy and tried to find out myself on the BBC website....I see BBC Radio 2 voted 1967 as the best year ever, with the release of Peppers, the summer of Love etc etc!
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Old 09-01-2006, 19:39
SGE
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Originally Posted by BeatleGod
I am sure that the BBC poll had plenty of Beatles/Beatles solo songs in them just like the Virgin Radio poll had over 40 in the top 500. Best albums are very much the same as well.

The Beatles are CONSISTENTLY throughout the world amongst the elite in these polls, and that carries the weight.

Send me a link to this BBC poll....i bet its not as bad for the Beatles as you make out!!

It's actually a Virgin Radio poll, reported by the Beeb. You surprise me, BeeGee. I never said it was bad for The Beatles, in fact it's very good. No, it's the song in 10th place that just may have you frothing at your homophobic mouth again . It's the poll that more or less started you out on your one-man crusade against me and Blunt. You're slipping badly, my mop-toppped friend. Tired? Are you really sure you want to look at it AGAIN? Ok, but I take no responsibility for any medical bills that may ensue.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4571080.stm
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Old 09-01-2006, 20:19
mushymanrob
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Originally Posted by loosefur
The influence of the Beatles on modern music shouldn't ever be underestimated.

The most telling thing to me about the Beatles and their musical talent is to track their development, from bouncy pop band to experimental artists. Their musical output grew as their own life experience did. Their most interesting work is the later stuff because it was less commercial - they challenged expectations. Great art - be it music, painting, writing etc - should challenge the audience.

The sign of a truly great artist is one who changes, develops and grows throughout their career. An artist who simply regurgitates the same stuff over and over may well sell lots of records but artistically their merit is limited.


this post is 100% correct.
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