SKY HD and WS - 4:3 switching

marac · 18-01-2006, 10:21

hi guys,

All sky HD channels are all widescreen, But most of SD channels are NOT widescreen.

So if we connect HD ready plasma/LCD to HDMI input when we watch HS channels all ok in widescreen, but when we zap to some of SD non WS channels (4:3), what will happend ?

- can HDMI input switch between WS and 4:3 like on SCART ?

- can even on HDMI input LCD even handle 4:3 picture, as all HDMI content thought HDMI suppose to be WS only ?

- or reallity will be that we will must manually change between 4:3 and WS if HDMI input enyble it ?

russellelly · 18-01-2006, 12:10

Is there a chance that the Sky HD box could have an option to pillarbox 4:3 internally and the output everything in 16:9? They could also have the option to strech or zoom to 14:9 or zoom to 16:9, whichever the user prefers. Would get round switching (unless HDMI does support it).

Dan27 · 18-01-2006, 12:14

It should pillarbox the picture if any kind of SD upscaling is going to happen. That should give the best picture quality available for SD programming through the HDMI output.

{ph[oe]nix} · 18-01-2006, 13:06

To be honest, I'd keep it pillar boxed. stretching and zooming are just going to look awful on HD panels.

partridge · 18-01-2006, 16:33

Well, you say that, but I use "panoramic" on my 32" LCD and it does a pretty good job.

So much so that depending on the programme it sometimes isn't immediately obvious whether a programme is in 16:9 or panoramic. Obviously once a person heads off to the side they look a bit stretched, but it's not as bad as it was on my old CRT, and I'm so used to it now it looks fine. Even though previously I always set my tv to switch to 4:3 when appropriate.

So it's not always a bad option, certainly worth trying out.

russellelly · 19-01-2006, 16:31

Remember on plasmas that prolonged use of pillarboxing can cause screenburn - anyway isn't it best to give choice to the users?

martinwtaylor · 19-01-2006, 16:35

I always found that the best compromise for watching 4:3 broadcast material is to use the 14:9 mode. You lose a little of the picture top and bottom but there is better horizontal use and no distortion.

sanderton · 19-01-2006, 22:40

I watch 4:3 pillarboxed; I'd rather no lose any picture or distort it.

Thare's so little 4:3 TV on these days I doubt screen burn is an issue.

MikeMcr · 23-01-2006, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanderton

I watch 4:3 pillarboxed; I'd rather no lose any picture or distort it.

Thare's so little 4:3 TV on these days I doubt screen burn is an issue.

That depends what you watch. I often come home to find UK Gold on.

Plasma burn with 4:3 is definately a big issue. My Pioneer displays lighter sides on purpose when in 4:3 mode. Obviously it won't do that when connected to a HD input since the box is sending a 16:9 picture and the box is responsible for the picture formatting.

I want the choice to stretch the image.

Dan27 · 23-01-2006, 08:29

I think it'll be something SkyHD will let your TV decide to do, rather like how things are at the moment.

MikeMcr · 23-01-2006, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanVitale

I think it'll be something SkyHD will let your TV decide to do, rather like how things are at the moment.

No, that will not be possible. Most HD TVs do not let you change aspect modes when receiving HD signals.

The Panasonics have a table in the manual explaining which input signals allow auto or manual aspect changes; none of these are allowed with HD. Panasonic tell me this is because the HD 'standard' is to send a full 16:9 picture so any additional formatting is down to the box sending it.

sanderton · 23-01-2006, 12:23

But what about SD signals set down the HDMI, which I presume is the question?

MikeMcr · 23-01-2006, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanderton

But what about SD signals set down the HDMI, which I presume is the question?

I thought Sky have said SD will be upconverted so surely you will have the same problem?

sanderton · 23-01-2006, 12:48

No, they have said that they will fill up the gaps on the HD channels with upconverted (at Sky's end) SD. I thought we were talking about the regular SD channels.

russellelly · 23-01-2006, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanderton

No, they have said that they will fill up the gaps on the HD channels with upconverted (at Sky's end) SD. I thought we were talking about the regular SD channels.

I know they haven't said this, but isn't there a chance SD channels will be upscaled on the SkyHD box (Upscaling DVD players are ~£100, so a semi-decent chip can't be too expensive)? Just a thought.

18-01-2006, 10:21	#1
marac Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 179	SKY HD and WS - 4:3 switching hi guys, All sky HD channels are all widescreen, But most of SD channels are NOT widescreen. So if we connect HD ready plasma/LCD to HDMI input when we watch HS channels all ok in widescreen, but when we zap to some of SD non WS channels (4:3), what will happend ? - can HDMI input switch between WS and 4:3 like on SCART ? - can even on HDMI input LCD even handle 4:3 picture, as all HDMI content thought HDMI suppose to be WS only ? - or reallity will be that we will must manually change between 4:3 and WS if HDMI input enyble it ?

18-01-2006, 12:10	#2
russellelly Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 10,720	Is there a chance that the Sky HD box could have an option to pillarbox 4:3 internally and the output everything in 16:9? They could also have the option to strech or zoom to 14:9 or zoom to 16:9, whichever the user prefers. Would get round switching (unless HDMI does support it).

18-01-2006, 12:14	#3
Dan27 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: By The Sea Posts: 9,574	It should pillarbox the picture if any kind of SD upscaling is going to happen. That should give the best picture quality available for SD programming through the HDMI output.

18-01-2006, 13:06	#4
{ph[oe]nix} Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,063	To be honest, I'd keep it pillar boxed. stretching and zooming are just going to look awful on HD panels.

18-01-2006, 16:33	#5
partridge Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: East Anglia Posts: 730	Well, you say that, but I use "panoramic" on my 32" LCD and it does a pretty good job. So much so that depending on the programme it sometimes isn't immediately obvious whether a programme is in 16:9 or panoramic. Obviously once a person heads off to the side they look a bit stretched, but it's not as bad as it was on my old CRT, and I'm so used to it now it looks fine. Even though previously I always set my tv to switch to 4:3 when appropriate. So it's not always a bad option, certainly worth trying out.

19-01-2006, 16:31	#6
russellelly Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 10,720	Remember on plasmas that prolonged use of pillarboxing can cause screenburn - anyway isn't it best to give choice to the users?

19-01-2006, 16:35	#7
martinwtaylor Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Finchampstead, UK Posts: 18	I always found that the best compromise for watching 4:3 broadcast material is to use the 14:9 mode. You lose a little of the picture top and bottom but there is better horizontal use and no distortion.

19-01-2006, 22:40	#8
sanderton Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Acne Information, Acne Vulgari Posts: 2,809	I watch 4:3 pillarboxed; I'd rather no lose any picture or distort it. Thare's so little 4:3 TV on these days I doubt screen burn is an issue.

23-01-2006, 07:28	#9
MikeMcr Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Manchester Posts: 91	Quote: Originally Posted by sanderton I watch 4:3 pillarboxed; I'd rather no lose any picture or distort it. Thare's so little 4:3 TV on these days I doubt screen burn is an issue. That depends what you watch. I often come home to find UK Gold on. Plasma burn with 4:3 is definately a big issue. My Pioneer displays lighter sides on purpose when in 4:3 mode. Obviously it won't do that when connected to a HD input since the box is sending a 16:9 picture and the box is responsible for the picture formatting. I want the choice to stretch the image.

23-01-2006, 08:29	#10
Dan27 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: By The Sea Posts: 9,574	I think it'll be something SkyHD will let your TV decide to do, rather like how things are at the moment.

23-01-2006, 11:57	#11
MikeMcr Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Manchester Posts: 91	Quote: Originally Posted by DanVitale I think it'll be something SkyHD will let your TV decide to do, rather like how things are at the moment. No, that will not be possible. Most HD TVs do not let you change aspect modes when receiving HD signals. The Panasonics have a table in the manual explaining which input signals allow auto or manual aspect changes; none of these are allowed with HD. Panasonic tell me this is because the HD 'standard' is to send a full 16:9 picture so any additional formatting is down to the box sending it.

23-01-2006, 12:23	#12
sanderton Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Acne Information, Acne Vulgari Posts: 2,809	But what about SD signals set down the HDMI, which I presume is the question?

23-01-2006, 12:25	#13
MikeMcr Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Manchester Posts: 91	Quote: Originally Posted by sanderton But what about SD signals set down the HDMI, which I presume is the question? I thought Sky have said SD will be upconverted so surely you will have the same problem?

23-01-2006, 12:48	#14
sanderton Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Acne Information, Acne Vulgari Posts: 2,809	No, they have said that they will fill up the gaps on the HD channels with upconverted (at Sky's end) SD. I thought we were talking about the regular SD channels.

23-01-2006, 22:57	#15
russellelly Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 10,720	Quote: Originally Posted by sanderton No, they have said that they will fill up the gaps on the HD channels with upconverted (at Sky's end) SD. I thought we were talking about the regular SD channels. I know they haven't said this, but isn't there a chance SD channels will be upscaled on the SkyHD box (Upscaling DVD players are ~£100, so a semi-decent chip can't be too expensive)? Just a thought.

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SKY HD and WS - 4:3 switching