Hello all,first time new topic poster here.The kind folks at play.com delivered the new Dr Who:The Beginning box set to my house a couple of days early this morning.Been working but got through An Unearthly Child and a few extras already.V. It's exciting watching the remastered William Hartnell episodes(I'm an 80's child and Davison was the first Doctor I remember but damn these Hartnell stories were good).Have noticed an emission though from the comedy sketch extras which first went out on the beebs Doctor Who night in the late 90's.Its the one where Mark Walliams and Mark Gatiss are pretending to be the creator and comissioner of Doctor Who.They've cut out a line that was definitely in the sketch when it was shown on C4's 100 greatest kids ty shows prog a few years back.Gatiss says something along the lines of " and do you envisage top actors playing the Doctor for 26 years",I remember Walliams character replying "Well towards the end any old f@cker with an equity card will do" Does anybody know if this was cut due to the DVD's 12 cert or because the beeb thought it was offensive to Colin Baker and Sylvester Mcoy who I thought were both pretty decent Doctors.
Also loved the Davison kidnap sketch-comedy genius from Walliams and Gatiss.

The comment in question upset Messrs C Baker and McCoy apparently and now Mark Gatiss regrets writing it. It has been removed at his request.

You're luck you've got yours - I'm still waiting!

Play let me down for the first time in years this morning, just have to hope it comes on Monday.

Never seen any B&W Who (Pertwee's the earliest I've seen), looking forward to it.

You might be in for a bit of a shock. A good one, though.

"How can a 15 year old girl not know how many shillings there are in a pound?!?"

I'm in the same boat: PD was my first doctor too. I've seen Pertwee and Baker on repeats, but never any Hartnell. Am looking forward to it in the way that only a geek can.



VB

You are in for a treat really. And, I genuinely feel that if you are a Davison fan, you'll enjoy Hartnell's Doctor more than you would if you'd come late to the series by another route.

For me the Troughton stories that I've seen are far better than the Hartnell era. Tomb of the Cybermen and The Mind Robber are two of my favourite ever Who's. Dalek Invasion of Earth did nothing for me, despite it being a 'classic'. The one I've not seen is the original Daleks story, so I'll be checking that out on DVD.

It's great - it's in no great hurry, mind, but remember that it was originally shown over seven weeks. It was also the second story so the actors and crew were still finding their feet.

The problem with saying troughton is better than hartnell is 2 thirds of the trouts episodes no longer exist, so we'll never really know. And reading the script for power of the daleks is much better if you haven't seen the 15 second clip that still exists of it, of those 5 or so cardboard cut out daleks. I personally think the invasion is amazing though- I hope they release it on dvd despite only 6 of the 8 episodes still being around. And web of fear 1 is easily one of the best DW episodes ever.

And of course there's the one- the ice warriors I think- where doc 2 is having an argument with a lady operating a computer and her reply to his every argument is: "Computer says no. Computer says no." Which was later borrowed by little britain.

Good to hear!

I got a book for Xmas, a great big coffee-table type thing called Doctor Who: The Legend Continues, which has a brief synopsis of each episode, plus some behind the scenes type stuff. It's been really interesting reading about the episodes prior to the Doctors I know, and made me especially curious about Hartnell & Troughton. Reckon I'll treat myself to some Troughton as a post-essay gift to myself in a few weeks.

On a related tangent, I noticed a fictional character featured in an early Who episode called "Captain Jack Harkaday"...I wonder if that was an influence on the contemporary Dr's Cap'n Jack?...

VB

Good spot! What episode? Do treat yourself! Hartnell is my first Doctor, so I still love him! And Troughton is brilliant.

It was in the Episode "The Mind Robber", a Troughton-era episode.

It features a character (called "the Master" but not, significantly, The Master... ) who was a writer from the 1920's, who created "the Adventures of Captain Jack Harkaday" for a fictional boys magazine.

Could be a coincidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a deliberate nod; if they decided they needed a kind of "boys-own adventure" type character, why not mine the Doc's past for inspiration...



VB

PS - reading the book has also lead me to a possible theory on regeneration which I can share, if anyone's interested?

Right. Seen The Mind Robber at the time and later. Wouldn't be a surprise at all. Good spot! I like The Mind Robber - you should watch it.

I'm interested! Theorise!

I see it's out on DVD so I just might do so...

OK, so my random theorising about Regenerations came from reading thorugh this "the Legend Continues" book...

There are, as we know, lots of little continuity SNAFU's throughout the various seasons. Not the end of the world, but there are little things that one Dr. will say that don't quite gel with what a preceding or subsequent Dr. will say...

In addition, new Dr's often do more than change their characteristics...they don't know exactly who or what they are, and sometimes don't know who or what they were. (e.g. Troughton's "The Doctor kept a diary, didn't he?")

Added to lines such as "That's the problem with regeneration, you never know what you're going to get" and various other quotations (that elude me at this late hour... ) I thought that there may be more to regeneration than simply changing all of his cells at once.

What if each of a Timelord's regenerations is, in fact, an alternative version of the timelord? A "what if", a different possible timelord who becomes actualised by the process of regeneration.

I thought this is (tenuously) borne out by the Pertwee-era story Inferno; on the alternative earth there are alternative versions of the Doctor's companions; Section Leader Shaw and the Brigade Leader. But no alternative Doctor...so what if the real power of the Time Lords is that they exist not only out of time, but out of possible time. I.e. they can't be wiped out/changed by changes to the timeline.

This seems to me like a reasonable precaution for a race of time travellers to take.

If this is the case, then perhaps they can tap into their own possible "alternities", and that's what they become when they regenerate. That would handily explain away a lot of little continuity issues; for instance if Doctor X says he did something, but Doctor Y says he didn't, that would be one of the differences between these possible, alternative doctors. Of course, how that would gel with the memories of other people, and other timelords, is another matter altogether.

It's just a crack-pot theory, with very little evidence for (and probably lots of evidence against) but I like it.

VB

PS - also, I'm very tired, so probably haven't articulated this as well as I should have...

But...interesting!

And...impressive as a thought provoked by reading one book!

I'm sure it's informed by more than that...but that's what this forum is for - ideas aired without being ripped apart for it!

I'll have to read it again though - my head hurts!

TROUGHTON had the same challenge that ECCLESTON had. To reinvigourate a "well-worn" drama series.

To use their respective vernacular, both were "how nice" and "fantastic".

Rewatch a Troughton and then an Eccleston, and see the similarities of style and talent. Style and talent; sums up both the actors.

Then watch a Davison and a Hartnell. PD quite often managed to bring in (in spite of his youthful appearance) something of the tetchiness of WH.

Whilst I agree with you to some extent, I would say the parallels are far greater for Troughton and Tennant, in that they both had to make the concept of regeneration work for the audience.

...and their surnames both begin with "T"!

(sorry!)

And there we have definitive proof!

(equally sorry! )

...and they're both Scottish!


(Well, apart from Patrick Troughton, obviously!)

Right - I really will go away now!

I agree with that. And PMSL at Stuart's last joke!

Excellent job by the RT! Doesnt matter that its black and white, the stories still live up to this day, and draw you in - FANTASTIC!

Kindest Regards,

Sebastian J. Brook

Oh I dunno eps 2-4 of unearthly child are still a bit rubbish aren't they?

The one thing I would recommend to newbies to this, is don't attempt to watch the daleks in one go. It's 3 hours long and was never intended to be watched all at once. You may get bored, and that'd be unfair to the story.

Mine still hasn't arrived yet. Gutted!