The condensed list of issues is the one available on the Toppy web site; when they have a time frame, they'll let me know, and I'll report back.

Which firmware are you using? If you have dual record problems, it's probably worth updating to the current one. If you still have them, please try and describe the cirucmstances in which they happen, and then we can create a detailed bug report.

Nigel.

Hi Nigel I'm using the December OTA download, which I think is the latest. I dont feel right in visiting Toppy.org site to contrbute as I believe this service covering bugs etc should be covered by Topfield on their own site. The Toppy.org should I believe cover TAPS and inter-user support in helping each other use the box.

The dual record fault occurs when I set the box to record 2 programmes starting at the same time. it will only record the first. I've only done this twice so far but it has happened each time.

Dec OTA is the latest update.

As for the service being provided on Topfield's site, it's not, is it?

They don't have a forum there for people to try and pin down the causes of bugs, or a reporting form, for whatever reason. I can't actually think of many major consumer equipment makers that do have anything public like that.

You can phone Turbosat and report problems to them if you think there's something not right in an independent web site providing information about bugs, though I can't honestly say I understand the logic in not using such a site when it's there.

Nigel.

One of the problems I have with the site is that it talks a lot of the time in technical terms that do not understand and importantly do not want to. All I want is a recorder straight out of the box that works and does not need any bug fixes. If it has bugs then I dont think its to much to ask for Topfield to list them on their site with a date when they will be fixed by.

I understand the importance of your site for deep toppy users but do not feel inclined to become one of them. I comend your efforts in all that you have tried to achieve.

We are trying to add lots more info to make things easier for new users, and there is a glossary for every technical term, plus a new users area on the forums. There will - shortly - be a whole dedicated area for new users.

Unfortunately, I think that the nature of digital broadcasting means that unless boxes limit things very simply - like the units out there that only record with one tuner, and watch with another - you're going to end up having to explain some technical stuff as soon as you get into issues like when you might be able to watch anything you want while recording two programmes, and when you won't, and other similar things.

While it would be nice to see a list of issues and fix dates on the Topfield site, does anyone do that? I can't think of any company in this area that does; most of them would view it as commercial folly.

In the world of consumer electronics, it's extremely rare to find any manufacturer even admitting to flaws, let alone publishing a list of them on the web site, and suggesting a date by which they'll be fixed. Look at the experiences of DS users with the 7 day EPG - most companies seem to think an adequate response was to simply release a new model and hope people would buy that instead.

Nigel.

Your quite right it would be extremely rare. I think as a Toppy owner in paying almost twice as much for my box than other current manufacture twin tuner boxes then you expect a little extra and its sad that Topfield do not see it that way and rely on your unpaid support. Topfield engineers appear to have spent a lot of time fixing one major stortfall in their software (which should not have been there in the first place!) If the BBC had not helped out they would have had many boxes returned as "not fit for purpose".

To get back to the main theme of a bugs list, having one understandable list of bugs on a non subscriber site and a date when they are going to be fixed by I believe we should all agree on.

There is such a bug list; and as I've said before, it's accessible to everyone, without registration.

The only thing we don't have is a date. Getting dates out of software engineers is never easy.

Nigel.

Nigel in focussing on the bugs are any of them currently being addressed?

Well, they're all on the to do list. I know that the jump to live TV is one of the top ones to get fixed, but the engineers have said it will take a while to do; given the problems that happened when they tried a quick fix, I'm fairly relaxed about that - I'd rather they take time to get it right.

The EPG population issues are definitely in progress, because I saw a beta of that during the testing for the last firmware update.

There aren't any items on the current list that the engineers have said can't or won't be addressed, but obviously I don't get a minute by minute report from Korea.

Nigel.

Nigel your answer suggests none of them are actively being fixed but are waiting on some form of wish list. Is this right?

Funny, that's not how I read it at all...

We are extremely lucky to have the Toppy site that Nigel has created.

I'm not experiencing any bugs that I can think of with my beloved Toppy.

I really don't have a clue what you mean by "actively being fixed."

I can't tease any useful information out of your posting.

I do not know if, right at this minute, the engineers are working on the UK firmware, or on the Australian firmware, or the European firmware, or the new TF6000 firmware, or having a cup of tea.

What does "actively being fixed" mean? If it means that they're trying out fixes, some of which I saw in a recent beta, as I said in my last post, then obviously they're working on them.

If it just means "have they said they'll fix them" then the answer is yes too - there are no bugs that they have said they won't be fixing.

If they've said it might take a while to do a fix, that doesn't mean it's not being looked at - it means it's a lot of work, and that takes longer to do and test.

I can't see - unless you have some curious meaning of "actively being fixed" -where I've said anything to suggest Topfield are just sitting around waiting for anything.

The only thing we are lacking is a date; personally I'd rather they concentrate on the work itself than on meeting an arbitrary deadline, so we can do a thorough field test to make sure it's even more stable than the current version.

Nigel.

Well; I have read Nigels post a few times and I cannot for the life of me see how you put that interpretation on it.

Giving a date is the worst thing they could do... just read the threads on some of the other PVRs when a date has been given and missed... we're talking about software - it really is impossible to guarantee a date, and even if they state an estimated date, some people will go nuts if/when the date passes with no update.

Compare the Fusion FVRT100 to the Thomson DHD4000 - both supported by the same software company. Fusion gave estimated dates, they were missed, lots of complaints ensued on this forum. Fusion was suddenly a terrible company in many people's view, whereas Thomson never said a word... just provided an update one day... there it was... they were heroes.

I've only had the Topfield a few months but already I've had a software update and there are more on the horizon... it's a great machine and a great company.

Hi 'anothergo',

Going back to to your problem, what steps, if any, have you taken to see if you can correct it?
Do both tuners have the same signal strength? all Muxs should ideally be over 70%.
Have you checked the short co-ax between the two tuners - this has been problamatic for some Toppy owners.

I would be very suprised if this is a 'bug', as I would have expected other owners in quite some numbers to be reporting the same problem. There, of course, is the chance that this may be a faulty unit.

Regards,

Colin

Are you referring to the "old" mess in the "old" Inverto thread? I was not aware of anything much happening in the Inverto threads these days. I assumed that all Inverto owners had retired to the Inverto Forum, or have I missed something?

Colin

I was referring to the amount of hassle the guy from Inverto used to get..

If he didn't respond, it was variously not caring about customers, trying to ignore problems, hide something, and so on.

And much the same happened even if he did post beforehand that he'd be unable to respond because he was on holiday/away on business/some other reason.

Essentially, once you start posting in a forum like this, you need to be able to commit the resources to check and respond regularly.

Like it or not, and regardless of what you tell them beforehand, people will infer stuff from the fact that you haven't posted within what they think is a reasonable time of them complaining about something.

I think, unless a company has the resources to ensure someone will respond quickly to everything, for the forseeable future, it's very unwise for them to start making official statements in forums like this. The moment you slow down or don't respond to something, people will start reading things in to it.

Nigel.

Ah yes you were referring the "old" Inverto thread

Colin

Didn't they have to lock it when the anti-bloodsport legislations was introduced.

Hi Colin thank for the advice, the failed recording only happen if both recordings start at the same time on any MUX. If I set the box the record 2 programmes starting at different times but overlapping then these record without a problem.

To put the record straight my box works well most of the time. with just the twin record problem being the only known bug.

If toppy could sort out the EPG and fast forward issue then the world would indeed be well. I have had my box since last May and fixing these design issues I do not believe is to much to ask.

Yes they did in Aug 2005 and Ang started a new thread which was (is) rather more civilised. Though soon after that JN adopted a pseudonym and more or less moved the the Inverto Forum.

Colin

I dont know if this is helpful but at first I was very irritated by this. However since I have got used to using Quickjump features (Quickjump TAP or Improbox or MyStuff EPG all do it) plus percentage jump etc I must admit I would not go back to using FF even if it was improved. I can usually get through ads for instance with two or three quickjump stabs much faster than using FF & the inevitable Rewind when I overshoot.

I think FF is really a hang over from using VCRs to be honest. I am not saying it should not be speeded up for those who want it; 6x is not much use; just that I think the alternatives are superior.

Richard

I often find myself saying this too, but I guess it could be perceived as attempting to justify a Toppy inadequacy. The reality, however, is that I agree totally with you - even if I did have a faster FF, I'm not convinced I would use it. For add-skipping my Quick Jump settings of -30,-15,+30,+60 across the coloured keys get me where I want to go typically in about 3 presses.