That is quite unfair, Mesos. No one here is trying to be an apologist for Nigel - we are simply pointing out that Rhona also behaved just as badly.

I'm certainly not laughing about it - I thought the whole thing was horrible - but I really didn't think she felt physically threatened.
She knew perfectly well that the other JMs, not to mention the camera crew, prevented any possibility of violence.

And her verbal assaults were extremely unpleasant.
It seems to me you're discounting Rhona's contribution to the atmosphere of violence because she is a woman.

Verbal violence is damaging as well.

I'm not laughing, I really feel for Rhona & wish I could tell her so, but, I hadn't thought of it in the way you've just expressed... Wow!

She was the one who was scared. She was the one who had to leave. What verbal violence? They didn't look scared of her to me. The big gang rallied round and decided she had to go......

Rhona obviously likes to be the centre of attention she deliberately chose not to sleep in the camp not because she was frightened but to see how many would be rushing to comfort her. There was no fear of violence the cameras and crew are always there.

she said she was 'articulate'. That is the problem surely? She has been too articulate. There are times when you keep your mouth shut, and Rhona has not yet learnt when those times are. Now her mouth has got her into serious trouble as I am sure it has done many many times before. She just thinks it's always right to get it out, be in yer face, up front, challenging, arguing and even threatening. She can give it.... but sadly methinks Rhona can't actually take it. Not in any way condoning what the fellas said or did, but Rhona, if you attack you have to expect an aggressive response back?

I'll ask any of you, Rhona has been very provoking... if you were the target of one of Rhona's rants, what would you do? My guess is that you would tell her to shut the f*ck up, at the very least...

Rhona did not feel scared she was sulking that nobody was on her side. Nigel said that if she were a man he would ttreat what she was saying to him differently, effectively saying that as she was a woman he wouldn't. How anyone can take her side amazes me. She has moaned from the very first moment even complaining about the trousers she was asked to wear. I know Nigel and Darren quite well and they have been very restrained. Yesterday Rhona insulted everybody even saying that Tony was slow. She deserves all she gets.

I'm an apologist for neither actually. I do though fail to see how you class Nigel a bully but not Rhona. Is verbal abuse OK? Not in my book.
What would you do if the person, in your words If someone said that to my wife, my daughter or any friend of mine (I'd hit you if you were a man) that woul dbe threat enough for me to have to do something. happened to be Rhona?

Did you somehow not hear Rhona shrieking obscenities and insults from her sleeping bag?

Anyway, Mesos, I respect your opinions, as ever, but I think they all behaved badly, and that Rhona has been as much aggressor as victim throughout her time in the camp.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I don't think Nigel & Darren have been restrained. I think they've been a pair of old women. Bitchy, threatening, and scared of women. Remember how they both acted to their friend Tara when she callenged their authority?

In a way I respect Tara much more for the way she has handled her differences with Rhona. At least she hasn't descended to threats, or bigoted jibes.

Sorry but I think you're view of what happened is somewhat blinkered.

Sorry to say this, and not meant as an insult to you at all, but that to me is the worst kind of sexism. Again, not directed at you at all, but at all the nonsense so many feminists come out with about wanting 100% equality where it suits them, but then when it doesn't they go "oooh you can't say something that could possibly be construed as s athreat to a lady" - wtf? I thought you wanted equality? It works both ways you know. You take the good with the bad.
Rhona too (so this doesn't go too off-topic) seems to think this way at times. Apparently big nasty men were threatening her, but she replied with worse, more real threats!
One of her big problems is that she sees anything negative said about her as being purely because of her sexuality and/or being a female.

Quite a hypocrite.

(Again, no insult to you intended so sorry if I did, and I'm running away )

I saw a world class boxer threaten to punch out a short woman. The owman had become upset because she'd been told she was dislike because of her sexuality and had confronted to the problem. Her reward was naked aggression.
Rhona isn't the bully, she's the victim of bullying. Unless she has a big gang hidden away somewhere. Her vicious tongue isn't that bad - If it has upset "our heroes" then Nigel and Darren are weak minded fools............

Mesostim, I totally agree.

Some of the stuff that happened tonight was horrible. And the worst part is that they think it's ok to act that way...

So in answer to my question you'd be quite happy to stand aside whilst Rhona launched a sustained, verbal barrage of abuse at your wife and daughter? After all, it's only words.

I think Rhona is Rhona's own worst enemy.

I do not condone any of the behaviour tonight - but arguments had been building up to a crescendo since they all the JMs met up together at the hotel.

Most of the arguments we have been able to view, generally involve Rhona in some way, shape or form. She is antagonistic much of the time, misunderstood - because of her own style of humour a lot of the time too. When she thinks she is being witty (i.e. the angry chef in the kitchen) - the others do not understand that she is being 'amusing' - or what she calls amusing.

Personally, I cannot bear her abrasive humour either.

Spot on Studley - Only words - Not threats of physical violence. I don't see why Rhona would though - My wife and daughter havn't been physically threatening her or sidelining her because of her sexuality. Violence or sarcasm - Huge difference as well you'll find......

So where has Rhona been a verbal bully - she has just tried to rationlise the situation, but maybe she should have just saved her breath, because not a lot of people seem to be listening. The two thick prats and their little fluffy puppy are not capable of thought, and can only offer threats. Christine is not so stupid that she didn't realise perfectly well what would hap;pen when she told Rhona about Nigel's feelings regarding lesbians.

Sorry, I got this far and was so dumbstruck I'll have to go back to read the rest. You have been watching the same show as me I take it?

Where has she been a verbal bully? How about unprovoked personal cutting insults like calling Nigel a f**** homophobic w**** or whatever it was exactly she said? Constant insults and verbal abuse.

Not that Mr Ben and Darren are saints - far from it, but you've got to admit that Rhona is the instigator and troublemaker 90% of the time.

Well you're a better man than I then. I couldn't.

Is there any actual evidence of Nigel's homophobia, or is it just assumed because he has said he is a Christian. Darren Day said to Christine that he has never heard Nigel express any homophobia. When Rhona asked Christine if he had actually said anything, Christine admitted that he hadn't. It was only later, when talking to Darren, that she changed the story.

If he really does have strong feelings about this then why, in all his bitching sessions about Rhona, in all his direct arguments with Rhona, has the subject not come up. He's not famous for his restraint and I think if it was such a big issue to him we would have heard by now.

The only one who keeps endlessly bringing up the subject of Rhona's sexuality is Christine.

The evidence of Nigel's homophobia was apparent in tonight's episode when he and Darren had their bizarre conversation in the woods regarding their opinion that Rhona "acts like a man in bed."

"Only words" - that really rubs me up the wrong way. IMHO cruel workds and verbal abuse are worse than the odd punch and kick - of which Nigel has done, and not even hinted at, such a thing.

Rhona on the other hand is coming across as an immense and evil bully, the kind that drives kids by the droves each year to suicide in schools, and causes untold psychological damage.
But hey, if you think that a broken bone that heals after a few weeks is wose than emotinal trauma that sticks with you for the rest of you life - so be it.

Exactly. Nigel is such "A Homophobic Fu*king Wan*er" that Rhona has been biding her time to tell him. Nothing to do with saying that because Christine told her he 'might' not approve of her because of his beliefs.

Spot on, well said.