I've been reading up and the Thomson DHD4000 and it sounds perfect for my needs, however, I have a few
questions I was hoping someone could help me with:


1. Regarding the thompson favourites menu; I assume that the box will crash at some point, like every other box, so if I do go to the trouble of setting up favourite channels, will I have to re-do this after every crash or are they saved to disk?


2. I used to own the DTH7000 (an analogue thompson pvr which had a dvd player built into it). I plugged my telewest cable box into the thomsons but what really, really annoyed me was that the thompson box stripped out the signal to the tv that changed the aspect ratio to/from 4:3 / 16:9. This meant that when I changed channels on my cable box, I also had to manually change the aspect ratio on my tv via the tv remote. Can someone confirm that the DHD4000 does not have this problem and will indeed passthrough the correct aspect ratio change information.


3. Would someone confirm that the rf modulator works on these boxes as I want use the rf output to get freeview on my pc using my analogue TV card...I can do this right?


4. Am I OK to use a DHD4000 with a cable box? If so what would be the best way to set the scarts up for max benefit?

The cable box has 2 scarts(tv/vcr) and my TV has 2 scarts but only one of them is RGB. P.S. I also have a dvd player that needs to be plugged into the TV via scart.


5. I assume I will not be able to record from the cable box, is this corrcet?


6. Would there be any other issues using the DHD4000 in conjunction with a cable box?


7. Will the latest update continue to be broadcast for a while? What are the chances of further software enhancements for this box? I mean it's a bit old now and getting to the point where support will be cut off soon.



Thanks for all your help

Pete.

1) disk - should be saved OK

2) as the Thomson deosn't record external why pass through anyway - make it the top of the chain (I don't know the answer as to whether WSS passes through I'm afraid)

3) Yes

4) What do you mean "OK with cable box"? - you haven't got the wrong impression that the DHD4000 can record from an external source have you? The ONLY thing it will record is the signal off its two internal digital tuners (and hence the reason for not bothering to chain through it)

5) No you either need a DVD recorder, a Tivo or some other form of recorder that has an MPEG *encoder* in it. The 4000 like most singl/dual tuner Freeview PVRs only has a *decoder* because it just records digital info direct from the tuner to the HDD and then DECODES it later at playback time (or during live play)

6) leave the two boxes quite separate

7) How long is a piece of string! (but Thomson bought 4TV who wrote most of the software and operate the EPG so there's a HOPE of future development)

Cliff

Hi Cliff

thanks for the response.


The only reason I was thinking of doing this would be to get all my devices connected to the TV via the single RGB Scart socket.

So should I connect the Thomson to the VCR socket on the cable box or vice versa? There is a noticable drop in quality if I use the non RGB TV socket. Would the Thomson passthrough the RGB data? Or do you still think I should connect the DVD through the second tv scart socket?



I read that this may have happened, has this been confirmed?

Cheers

Pete

Ah, TV with one RGB Scart - I understand. I'd try it both ways round and see which does the better jop of RGB pass thru including WSS. Like I say I for one (but hopefully someone else here) cannot telly you how good the Thomson copes with this

As for the 4TV+Thomson thing both Keith Wiggins of Digifusion and John Norton of Inverto (both of whom should know, as they were the other two major customers of 4TV besides Thomson) have said that Thomson HAS bought 4TV (and it's causing THEM all sorts of problems!)

Cliff

In standby my Thomson does a good job of RGB pass thru'. Doesn't work so well when the Thomson is on and I use the AV switch - it ends up with composite pass thru'.

In general I find the DHD4000 a good pvr, my only real gripe being the 16:9 display bug on some of the commercial channels. I've lost track of how many months ago Thomson promised that bug would be fixed....

Hi DX30

How does the 16:9 bug manifest itself?

Pete

On a few channels (e.g. ITV3, More4 etc.) when a 16:9 programme is broadcast it get squashed horizontally with black bars added either side. It only happens when the display type is set to 16:9 so a workaround is to set to 4:3 letterbox and use the TV zoom to compensate.

It happened on all 4TV pvr's but the Inverto got fixed before it was on general release and ISTR later the Fusions got a bug fix update. Thomson promised a fix months ago but have yet to deliver.

You'll find several threads about it in the forum.

Thanks for that.

Does this affect actual recordings or is it just the aspect ratio switching?

Thanks

Pete

Hi,

The exact problem is that anything on ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, E4 and More4 which is widescreen with a flag for 14:9 for boxes that support it, doesn't display properly. (The 16:9 picture is squashed into a 14:9 shape with bars at the side)

4:3 Shows are OK and US shows on E4/More 4 force 16:9 and are also OK.

There is a workaround by pressing wide on the remote which forces the box to 16:9 Letterbox which does correct the aspect ratio, but reduces the vertical resolutiion (The offending channels are already at 544x576 which is one of the causes of the problems)

The problem has been around for well over a year, and has become more apparent as other channels were added using this resolution.

Thomson have been promising an update 'soon' for months, and I think they stopped broadcasting the 1.7.7 update around Christmas in preparation for a new update, but we're still waiting.

I rang them again today to see if there was any news, but they're still saying they can't say if it will be weeks or months.

Cheers

Steve

It records what's transmitted (nothing more, nothing less), so if the issue is present when broadcast, it is there when it is recorded too.

Personally I don't find it to be a problem - I've said before, just pressing the "wide" button on the Thomson remota about 3 or 4 times to cycle through to an appropriate screen ratio works fine, so it doesn't cause me the sleepless nights it seems to cause others!!

Matt

Does this completely solve the problem or is the screen resolution reduced as Steve suggests?

Regarding future updates; the impression I get from some threads suggests that when thomson release the next wave of PVRs, the software and bug fixes applied to the new boxes would be applied retrospectively to the DHD4000. Does that make any sense? Are the updates like the graphics card drivers Nvidia / ATI release (in that the same software is used for all varients?)


Thanks

Pete

It's a workaround - using letterbox reduces the vertical screen resolution. You either live with that reduced resolution on all the channels, or manually switch when required. How much this bothers you depends on personal preference and viewing habits.


Even if much of the code is shared with a new model they still have to develop, test, and release for the DHD4000, all of which will cost Thomson money.

Where is the commercial advantage for Thomson? If they introduce a new pvr with new features xyz they will want existing users to upgrade. They don't make any money by encouraging users to stick with their old pvr, only lose money from lost potential upgrade sales.

I'm not singling Thomson out here - all manufacturers are the same. As soon as a model goes out of production there is little incentive to support it.

[quote=DX30]It's a workaround - using letterbox reduces the vertical screen resolution. You either live with that reduced resolution on all the channels, or manually switch when required. How much this bothers you depends on personal preference and viewing habits.



Even if much of the code is shared with a new model they still have to develop, test, and release for the DHD4000, all of which will cost Thomson money.

Where is the commercial advantage for Thomson? If they introduce a new pvr with new features xyz they will want existing users to upgrade. They don't make any money by encouraging users to stick with their old pvr, only lose money from lost potential upgrade sales.

I'm not singling Thomson out here - all manufacturers are the same. As soon as a model goes out of production there is little incentive to support it.[/QU
Even if this model is out of production,surely Thomson should support it as it is still on sale.
I have been caught out before with upgradeable products that lose support almost straight away.
I think there should be an obligatory support period after production ceases.

Even if much of the code is shared with a new model they still have to develop, test, and release for the DHD4000, all of which will cost Thomson money.

Where is the commercial advantage for Thomson? If they introduce a new pvr with new features xyz they will want existing users to upgrade. They don't make any money by encouraging users to stick with their old pvr, only lose money from lost potential upgrade sales.

I'm not singling Thomson out here - all manufacturers are the same. As soon as a model goes out of production there is little incentive to support it.[/quote]


The commercial advantage is customer loyalty. Fora like this, the consumers association and the likes of Watchdog on the BBC would give any manufacturer failing to support reasonably current product a hard time - potentially resulting in loss of market share. An example of such support being by Philips for their range of DVD recorders where the firmware updates related to both the current models and significantly older and lower spec models.

I know of three new stock still on the shelves of local Comet stores during the January Sales - none marked down in price and I suspect there is still new product on shelves in isolated stores thus the product is arguably current!!

Re connectivity, I have a Vivanco auto scart switch box with 4 scart plus a fifth s-video input. This ensures correct switching and optimum quality for all sources. It also switches coaxial digital audio for input to a Home Theatre unit.

Finally, have you reviewed the YLD issues posted elsewhere re this product? I now have two unmodified boxes connected to the same aerial supply. The problem has only occurred once since obtained the second box however only the newer box was affected on that occasion but the older box has had a few such problems.

Hi robinird

Are you saying that the Vivanco switch box fixes the aspect ratio problem automatically without the need to manually change the aspect ratio via the remote?

Thanks

Pete.

Yes customer loyalty is a factor to consider. I would point out however the DHD4000 model is two years old and it's a year since any were made. It's now been 15 months since the last DHD4000 update, hardly a sign Thomson are actively supporting the model now. If we are lucky we'll get the bug fix they've been sitting on the past 6 months, but IMHO it is optimistic to think they will continue to develop the DHD4000 software once they release their next generation pvr.

No, but it resolves the conectivity problem. I fix the aspect ratio by seting the Thomson to 4:3 and the television to widescreen

Ok, however should Thomson develop software for a new product range which resolves the issues, or if near identical competitor prduct is able to resolve them then they will have little reason not to follow suit. In my opinion - and I accept others may differ - the significance of the known DHD4000 bugs may render these boxes deemed to fail the criteria required to be considered of merchantable quality - especially in any light of known fixes - and associated financial costs to themselves!! This assumes the transmissions are within the set standards as they were at the time the boxes were on general sale. Any such claim would not be time restricted per the manufacturers 12 month warranty.