“Effective from 24th April 2006, the price of calling Premium Rate Services will be increased by 10%. This increase applies to calls to Premium Rate Services charged both by the minute and by the call. Additionally, the cost of using Operator Services will also be increased. For further information contact our Customer Care Centre”


On contacting their CS, they state this covers 084n and 087n numbers too.

I always refer to 0845 and 0870 as premium rate numbers, which really upsets those company's that us them, eg $ky and Tiscali.

I too call 0844, 0845, 0870 and 0871 premium, as to me they are charged at a premium over what I pay (or don't pay) for 01 or 02 numbers.

I had an email from Tiscali telling me their 0870 number is NOT a premium rate number, it just costs more to call.

Premium rate numbers all start 09.

On the basis that 0845/0870 numbers are referred to by some as premium rate because they cost more than 01/02 numbers, I wonder why 01/02 numbers are not considered premium rate as they cost more than 0500,0800 or 0808 numbers

Well the £50 'free' has to come from somewhere!

Because numbers range in price and 0870 is just the number for a national non geo call, not a premuim service like a chat line / dating where you are paying a premium for a special service.

0870 isn't national rate, the term is used to confuse.

Even BT only charge at max 3p/min to 01 and 02 numbers (local and national) 3p/min whether to your next door neighbour or someone 200 miles away.

0870 are charged up to 7.51p/min and aren't included in any inclusive calls package you might have.

7.51p has a 4.51p premium over 3p, therefore there is a premium to calling them.

Yes it is national rate, at least with BT !!!

However, you may have a BT calling plan/discount scheme (such as a BT together tariff which many people do have) that allows for reduced prices for 01/02 numbers.

Page 16 of the BT price guide (link below) states that the price for a national call for a non BT-Together customer is:

Mon-Fri 06:00 - 18:00 - 7.91p per minute
Mon-Fri 18:00 - 06:00 - 3.95p per minute
Sat-Sun all day - 1.5p per minute

Exactly the same as 0870 numbers

UK and International Call Prices and Discount Schemes for Residential Customers (BT)

The post office and Cable and Wireless have raised the costs of calling premium rate numbers because they weren't making enough money from customers.

Telewest and NTL make money from premium rate numbers by adding a call connection charge of between 6p and 24p depending on the type of premium rate number, then they charge the per minute or per call rate as advertised by the owners of the premium rate number.

BT Pay&Call,BT payphones and Spectrum Interactive payphones will not let you call 0907 and some 0909 numbers due to the high cost. All other payphone providers do not allow access to all premium rate numbers.

I wouldn't class 0844 or 0845 or even 0870 numbers as premium rate compared to the cost of calling mobiles and patients in hospital which use 070 numbers.

Everyone who mentions about 0870 and national rate is right,
At this day in age when they say National Rate, they mean its nationwide code which organisations use. The term 'Rate' should be dropped as companies have no intentions of charging the geographical rate.

And what do they mean Lo-Call? for 0845 numbers. Thats wrong because it costs more to call 0845 numbers than geographical rate numbers.

With regards to 0844 numbers, they should not be classed as premium rate numbers at all! Some 0844 numbers cost as little as 1p per minute to call whilst BT/NTL/Telewest charges 3p per minute on the standard tariff to call landlines in the local area.

I think that all companies should re-introduce the local and national geographical rate for those who want it. NTL have a tariff which lets you call locally for free whilst calls to numbers outside the local area and mobiles are charged the standard rate. That would suit me.

Of course people are on BT together calling plans (unless on the BT Light user scheme), as it is not possible to be on any other calling plan (residential customers), BT scrapped their 'standard' line rental around 2 years ago.

It is not possible for residential customers who aren't on BT light user, to be on a calling plan with those costs you highlight.

Therefore the national rate with BT is 3p/min daytime, 5.5p for up to an hour off-peak.

The only people who try and argue otherwise are rip-off telecom providers, or those earning money by ripping off people by getting them to call their revenue sharing numbers.

BT Publish these so called 'standard' tariffs, that it isn't possible to be on, as a smoke screen for these rip-off numbers.

So you would be happy for your national call costs to go back up then?

For calls to mobiles to be charged at the standard rate, you would need to change to the terrible USA model, where the person who owns the mobile phone then has to pay to receive your call, or it will come out of any inclusive minutes.

The use of PAYG phones would drop, as people wouldn't want to have to pay to receive calls, the costs of contracts would go up, so you could get additional minutes to cover incoming calls, why do you think mobile phones have never really took off in the USA and Canada.

According to ICSTIS:

Furthermore, on requesting details on 0870 numbers, ICSTIS says:

Since when has ICSTIS been one of the "rip-off telecom providers, or those earning money by ripping off people by getting them to call their revenue sharing numbers"

ICSTIS isn't a telecom provider, just a premium rate regulator.

BT Standard rate hasn't been availble to residential customers for almost 2 years.

0870 may not be classed as premium rate by the telecom providers, it still doesn't alter the fact you HAVE to pay a premium compared to real local and national numbers to call them.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/mofaq/...s/nts/#content

Exactly, the pemium rate regulator
Note that as such, they only regulate numbers beginning 09


Funny, I'm sure you previously agreed with me it is. e.g. Light User Scheme


Only if you are on a BT Together price plan that allows cheap 01/02 calls. BT introduced this price plan as research suggested that their customers wanted it (and no doubt to try and avoid those customers from using lower cost call suppliers).

It doesn't alter the fact that (except for BT Together Option 3 customers), you HAVE to pay a premium to call 01/02 numbers compared to 0500, 0800 and 0808 numbers.

But unless you don't have a mobile, don't have broadband, and other restrictions, you have no choice but to be on a BT Together price plan.

I know a number of people who are (legally) on the LUS.

However, I'm not sure what that has got to do with the fact that 01/02 numbers are charged at a premium to 0500,0800 and 0808 numbers whatever BT Residential Price Plan we discuss (except BT Together Option 3 for which customers pay a premium service charge)

...and don't forget us business customers either!


Precisely!
Some of these come under the 'g8' price rate which is 1p per minute at all times

How does it go?
3p has a 2p premium over 1p, therefore there is a premium to calling 01/02 numbers.

But then again:
1p has a 1p premium over 0p, therefore there is a premium to calling these 0844 numbers on g8 tariff.

But can 1p per minute really be classed as a premiun rate?

I think ICSTIS is right:
All UK-based premium rate services must be advertised on '09' dialling codes.

09 codes can cost anything upto £1.50 per minute - now thats premium rate

Much simpler
Last edited by dawson : 29-03-2006 at 18:23

No, the goverment and European goverment need to take action against the mobile operators and if possible to take away the licences if they refuse to lower costs.

I couldn't care less if pay as you go phones went, because I have never used mine for months, I can't be bothered with it anymore and they are too expensive! If pay as you go phones didn't exist, the UK wouldn't have any problems with Happy slapping as 98% of Happy slapping is being caused by teens aged 12 to 16 and are a potential nuicence!

Furthermore, I don't call nationally that often and mostly call local landlines,Freephone,0844,0845 and maybe once in a while an 0870 number and maybe 3 or 4 times a month to a mobile phone.

Also,everyone I know never called me on my mobile, they all called my house phone instead and always find loads of messages on my house phone, they said it costs them too much money.

So if ever get stuck, I always use a payphone were its just 30p to call a landline anywhere in the UK for 15 minutes!

If you work from home, you can always use Cable and Wireless's business service direct down their network!

A growing minority of 12-16 year olds are getting contracts, normally the "free 12 month line rental" ones from 3 with the latest phones (with their £115 unlock charge, and even then 3 claim not to be able to generate codes for the latest Nokia phones) - because PAYG is too expensive for their "texts" and the other things they waste credit on. (i never send text messages, i use mobile data occasionally)

I do have PAYG SIMs, all active, on o2, orange, vodafone and virgin which I use dependant on time of day, number called etc.
But nothing beats BT's payphone to landline prices (I notice the payphones in my area all now do emails and text messages - is this the case for other places? these are all pretty low-profit payphones)

Any call which costs more than the standard rate is a Premium Rate call. Oxford Dictionary definition of Premium is "a sum added to ordinary charges", therefore 0845, 0870 and 09 numbers are ALL Premium Rate. Lo-call 0845 numbers used to be called Local Rate before BT changed it's name to Lo-call (sounds almost the same, doesn't it) in about 1996, and it was the same as BT's old local call rate. 0500 and 0800 numbers are Freephone. As they do not cost anything, calls more expensive (eg BT's standard call charge) than them cannot be classed as Premium Rate as there is no 'ordinary charge' to which a premium can be added. So there we have it. Any call which costs more than BT's normal rate for 01 and 02 numbers is a Premium Rate number. You cannot get away from that fact.

Have you followed the thread poppasmurf?

0845 numbers cost the same as normal local rate calls on BT
0870 numbers cost the same as normal national rate calls on BT
09 numbers are premium rate services

Only if you are on a BT Together price plan can you benefit from lower cost calls to 01/02 numbers, i.e. lower than the normal BT rate.

Btw, I see the OD doesn't mention the bit about the ordinary charge of 01/02 numbers. You seem to have added that to support your arguement. What is the ordinary charge of freefone numbers? Don't you have to pay "a sum added to [the] ordinary charges" of those to make 01/02 calls (unless you pay the premium of the BT Together Option 3 price plan)?

If you want to get into semantics, you should look up the meaning of the word 'charge'.
According to my dictionary:

charge n. The price asked for something.

Therefore if BT charge those calls at 0p per minute, that is the charge, i.e. the price they ask for it.

Sorry to say this Dawson but you are talking drivel.

I don't use BT to make calls. I use 18185 and 18866, both of which cost a 4p connection charge and NO pence per minute for 01 and 02 calls. 0845 calls cost more than that. 0870 cost even more. 09 cost even more again. Therefore all those calls are Premium Rate.

And if a call is free, then it is free. Dictionary definition of free is "no charge" So a freephone call has no charge, and so cannot be compared with one that does.

Enuff said

Yes, he is talking utter waffle.

Since when has 7.51p/min been the national rate of 3p/min, or 3.75p/min been 5.5p for up to 1 hour.

For the vast majority of people they can NOT get any price plan lower than BT Together 1, that is their standard plan.

Use 1899 to call 01/02 numbers and the call cost is 0p per minute with a lower overall cost of only 3p per connection.

Give up on those premium rate services you use