Those charges were brought out in 2003 and withdrawn a year later.

That was in 2003 on the BT Standard tariff, BT swirled all customers to BT Together option 1 tariff in July 2004 and the seperate call rates where abolished!

BT Standard no longer exists.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone has a mobile phone (you posted yesterday how you thought they were a waste of money)

Not everyone has internet access at home - that could also be considered a waste of money as you can obtain free internet access at most libraries.

The 'standard' tariff may not exist but those call rates still do for LUS customers.

But only a very very very very very small minority can get those higher rates.

The vast majority of people can only get a minimum of BT 1.

If everybody was able to get that tariff then the argument would be a valid one, as most people can't get that tariff then the argument is not valid.

Well if you find LUS unreasonable, I would suggest you find an alternative.

I confess, at first it didn't enter my head to think I was chatting to trolls, how wrong could I be.

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi

If you are happy in paying the rip-off higher charges to call 0870 and 0871, then go ahead I can't alter peoples stupidity.

Have you any idea how many people have LUS? It is much more than a 'very very very very very small minority'.

Everyone can get the tariff, as long as they qualify.


Lol, Bex gets it wrong and spits the dummy when shown he got it wrong. You couldn't make it up.


Who is talking about 0870/1? I am talking about 01 and 02 calls.

Since when has £1.85 ( the cost of making a 01/02 2 hour weekend call on any of the BT together tariffs) been less than £1.80 (the cost of making a similar call using 0870)?

Now if you use the BT standard call rates, even though the Standard tariff price plan is no longer available, you find they are the same price. (i.e just £1.80)
Last edited by dawson : 30-03-2006 at 19:32

No one in their right mind would stay on the phone after 1 hour when they can hang up and call again.

There is no argument that there are cheaper ways to obtain the users at the end of 0870 numbers than the cost that BT charge, what is being argued is that 0844, 0845 and 0870 numbers are not premium rate numbers - how can they be when I have explained that on some occasions they are even cheaper to call than an equivalent 01/02 number using the same supplier (BT), especially if you are on one of their price plans that does not charge the 'standard' rate for calls.

If you vary that supplier away from BT, then any call costing more than a one off 3p connection call would be considered a premium rate according to your logic - and if you include voip than all chargeable calls would be premium rate

So you've called a company up, you've been passed from pillar to post to finally get to speak to the person who may help you. They are not particularly helpful at present as you are complaining about their product/service. What do you do, say oh hang on I need to redial.

Of course not, any CS member would love that knowing that you terminated the call and they won't have the hassle of dealing with your complaint. You stay connected until the problem is resolved. Most (reputable) companies take a very dim view of their CS staff terminating any call unless the caller is being abusive etc, and even then the CS representative is usually required to give a clear warning first.

I'm sure there could be other occassions. What about if you dial up someones modem to download a large file direct from them. If you're not able to use a download manager, you may not have an easy alternative but to make a long call.

Of course, what hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that the UK telecommunications has (supposedly) been opened up to competition. The framework for 0870 numbers is different to that of geographical numbers which means that telcos cannot price 0870 numbers anywhere near as low as geographicals. Numbers are the common part of any telephone service from any provider. Thus 'national rate' must be able to apply to all providers, else it is clearly misleading, if not a downright lie.

The problem with we now have, following the opening up of the telecoms market, is that we have numerous telecoms operators, all with their own price plans - and even mutiple price plans from the same operator as can be seen by this thread.

I'm not sure if it is a legally established principle, or just generally accepted practise, but when mentioning call costs it seems to be acceptable to just state the call cost using a BT landline standard rate, with the proviso that call costs from mobiles or other networks may vary.

Yes thats right.

They need to change this because there are actually just 8 main telecom providers in the UK and off-shore dependencies which are covered by the UK Telecoms system:

BT
Kingston
Telewest
NTL
Wight Cable
Cable and Wireless Guernsey
Jersey Telecom
Manx Telecom

8 Main payphone service providers:

BT
Spectrum Interactive (New World)
Premier Managed Payphones
Infolines Public Networks (4 Kiosk Solutions)
Euro-Payphone
Cable and Wireless guernsey
Jersey Telecom
Manx Telecom

10 Main mobile networks operators:

T-Mobile UK
O2-UK
Orange Personal Communications
Vodafone UK
Hutchison 3G UK
Dolphin Telecom
Pronto
Jersey Telecom GSM
Cable and Wireless Guernsey
Wavetel

All the other companies you see advertised are just CPS providers and provide a very light service, all of which involve the above companies.

It strikes me that, having read thru all the above posts, that there are many people who enjoy paying Premium Rates for making telephone calls, and will defend the rights of companies to keep charging them until they take their dying breath. Remember the dictionary definition of premium and keep writing the cheques. Me - I still refuse to call 0870 numbers because they are premium rate, just like 118 calls to directory enquiries, which BT used to class as Premium Rate calls and these numbers were barred under their Premium rate Call Barring Service until they found out they were losing too much money and stopped calling them Premium Rate.

As an aside, Tiscali emailed me recently to tell me that their 0870 number was NOT premium rate, it just cost more to call than standard numbers!!!

So calling a landline from a T-mobile pay as you go phone costing 20p per minute.

Would you call that a premium rate too?

I'd call it a rip-off.

Yes, it's a premium, a premium you pay for going mobile.

Though I would like to see the costs reduced.

A 10 minute daytime call to a T-Mobile,Vodafone,Orange and O2 mobile from a Telewest phone would cost £1.96.

Whilst on T-Mobile and O2 it would cost £4
Whilst on Orange and Virgin it would cost £3.50
Whilst on Vodafone it would cost £3
Whilst on Spectrum Interactive payphone: £6*

And on the Orange Choose your own off-peak or the O2 Pay and go original tariff at peaks hours: A whopping £5!!!

*Cost to be reduced to 20p per minute.

A 10 minute daytime or evening call to a T-Mobile,Vodafone,Orange and O2 mobile from a BT landline using 18185 would cost 54p.

A 10 minute weekend call to a T-Mobile,Vodafone,Orange and O2 mobile from a BT landline using 18185 would cost 24p.

Well I was just comparing direct dailled rates between a mobile provider and a landline provider.

I always use Clever rates: 0844-452-2525 which 5p per minute or 0844-428-9090 which is 4p per minute to call mobile phones.

Never been keen on dial-throughs, as I don't like being charged whilst the destination number is ringing or engaged or not available.

Will only use dial-throughs when the rate is extremely competitive.

Though as you are on Telewest you are limited in choice when it comes to indirect access numbers such as 18185, where you are charged a higher rate than those who access via the short number on BT.

I would define 'premium rate' as not being a rate per se, more a type of call.

Calling mobiles aside, any charge above geographical rate (on the package the subscriber is on) is premium rate. With 084/087 originating providers, typically, cannot undercut BT, thus they charge roughly the same across the board. The terminating telcos (NGN providers) charge terminating payments which were designed to be BT's local and national rate minus a small amount for BT to originate the call.

By providing an 084/087 number in place of a geographical, the caller is forced to pay extra to have their call routed to a landline. This extra cost pays for routing services that the service provider should be paying for.

Its the same rate on Telewest to call 0844 numbers as you would of done on BT. Except for the 12p connection charge. Well since I spent 20 minutes using on that 0844 number it only came to about 90p, so it was still good value.

I've always been keen on the idea of instant dials because you don't have to have a subscription and you can use the access number from any phone. Its also on the same bill too.

Now you have made the point. You may think it good value but that phone call, in the end, went to a landline number which should have cost (via 18185) 4p maximum. The telco's have made 86p profit on a 4p call. Now that's profiteering in its worst sense. About 2000% if my maths are correct.

Yes, with the dial through's, my comment was more to do with indirect numbers such as 1899, 18866 and 18185, where they have one rate for BT customers and one for non-BT customers, have to admit I forget about the connection charge with Telewest on 0844 numbers.

I'm not bothered about having just one bill, as thinking "Just one bill" most of the time means pay more.

I would rather pay a fraction more and have a separate bill than have to pay for non-connected calls.