Hi

Thought it might be useful to clarify how the Pioneer hard drive recorders handle aspect ratio switching, it isn’t too clear in the manual and it is assumed on a DVD-R Video disc that no wide screen signal is recorded, this isn’t always true, and you can have wide screen switching on DVD-Rs if you know how:

When recording to the hard drive
Wide screen signal is recorded appropriately and will switch on playback as the original source did, i.e. 16:9 adverts then 4:3 for the program.

When recording real-time to a DVD-RW VR mode disc
Wide screen signal is recorded appropriately.

When recording real-time directly to a DVD Video (DVD-R or DVD-RW in video mode)
Wide screen signal is defaulted to 4:3 regardless of the source; you will need to manually switch your TV to 16:9 for wide screen recordings. Widescreen sources will be tall and thin on 4:3 TVs.

When dubbing from the hard-drive to DVD Video
When high-speed dubbing the wide screen switching is completely preserved, so on playback from the DVD the wide screen signal is present for 16:9 sources. Note that if the source changes between 16:9 and 4:3 these will be split into separate titles on the DVD to keep to the DVD Video specification.

When dubbing real-time, for example when re-compressing to fit on a single disc, then the source will be recorded as 4:3 regardless. There is a way around this however:

1) Use a DVD-RW in VR mode, and recompress to that VR mode disc. This preserves the widescreen-switching signal.
2) Next, high-speed dub the DVD-RW VR mode disc to the hard-drive giving you a new title that is compressed to the right size for fitting on a DVD.
3) Take a DVD-R disc, and then high-speed dub this new title to it, which will preserve the wide screen switching.

So in summary, to get wide-screen switching on a DVD-R Video disc, record to the hard-drive first then high-speed dub to the DVD. Follow the steps above if you need to recompress the video on the hard-drive in order to fit onto a single disc.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Phil

Once the 16:9 recording is on the -RW(VR),surely all you need to do is use Disc Backup to copy the disc to -R in under 15 minutes

Nice one Phil (useful to see it all in one place). Still think it's a lot of fannying about to preserve widescreen but can think of a couple of instances where it would have been useful eg. have put 28 Days Later and Final Destination on one DVD-R (one of which I think was 4:3 anyway)

Have taken to recording everything in MN21 or SP on the HDD so films should fit on a single DVD once I have taken the ads out. Saying that I was eyeing up Star Wars III on Pay for view last night which is something like 2hrs 20mins so would have to record in LP which is not ideal.

Mongo, didn't realise you could backup fron DVD to DVD.. learn something new every day!

Great message Phil - I'd figured some of this out myself by recording from freeview in 16:9 (anamorphic) mode to HDD and playing it back, and being surprised.
Depending on what I'd told the Pioneer about my TV (which is 4:3) I got letterbox, centre-cut or 16:9 squashed (ie anamorphic)
The Pioneer 433 handled this perfectly.
Very good for making quality futureproof recordings.
I assume its seeing the widescreen flag which my Nokia OnDig box must be putting into line 23, as I wasn't using Scart2Scart, but Scart out into phonos.
How else would it know it was widescreen?
I wonder if all freeview boxes handle widescreen flags correctly?
Does anyone know if the Pioneer also looks for the widescreen flag on pin 8 of the scart?
Geoff

Hi


Yes it will be.


Yes it also detects pin 8.


As someone else clarified in another forum, the wide screen switching is preserved when doing a real-time dub from the hard-drive to DVD, no need to transfer over once then back again. The only time wide screen switch doesn't work is a real-time recording direct to DVD, but with a hard-drive there is no need to do that.

Regards

Phil

WSS is NOT preserved with a real time dub from HDD to DVD,at least its not on my Pioneer 420.
I also have a 630 but thats used for CCTV so cannot check

That's an expecsive box just for CCTV. Isn't there a cheaper option?

I have a 630, and this is indeed the case. Quite annoying when you record a film in SP but turns out to be 2 hours and 7 minutes so it won't fit onto one DVD. You therefore have to do a real-time copy to adjust the recording mode and then the WSS is lost.

Tend to use the Auto mode to ensure a film/program fits on a DVD which by the time I've taken the ads out and trimed off the end titles coz some bint is talking over them usually ends up at less than 2Hrs. Only film I can think of as being over 2 hrs of late is Star Wars III which was only 2Hrs 13mins.

Auto mode won't fix the WSS problem though. Or will it?

AFAIK auto mode will stretch/shrink a recording to 2hrs so the WS flag should stay intact as long as you don't squeeze something else onto the same DVD.

AUTO/OPTIMISE modes use rate conversion to fit the recording onto a single disc.
Everything is lost using this mode,including WSS and any chapter stops you have chosen.These are replaced by the auto adding stops every 5 or 10 minutes.
Regarding CCTV:when the 2 companies visited they sold only fancy machines designed for indistrial /multi camera use.When I told them I could get 250Gb for under £400,they both said go for it.I still see the 630 for £499 so I did get a good deal.
I wanted a larger than average HDD to fit as much footage on in peak quality,and the Pioneer offers the 15Mbs quality level.
It also has a mode where you can set the recordings so that when that recording begins again the old one is deleted,so there's no need to touch the machine,even to delete recordings unless footage needs to be looked at or burned to dvd.
The cheaper models all had limited capacity for what I needed.
The JUKEBOX feature that allows up to 999 cd's to be stored (and accessed even while recording)was a bonus.
For CCTV use the 630 is actually cheap,especially if you want to record images that can actually be of any use.

Hmm, an alternative might be using MN18 or 19 which will give you 2hrs30 and 2hrs20. Should be enough to get most films on one DVD.

The whole point of using OPTIMISE is to maximise recording quality with available disc space.
If you know what the final running time of your completely edited recording(minus ads and padding )will be,then record at the correct MN setting.
OPTIMISE should only be used when you don't know what the final running time will be.
Why use a 2h30 setting for a 2h22min film?
OPTIMISE ensures no wasted space

Phil thats really useful thanks. The preserving of 16:9 flags is the one thing thats persuading me to go with one of the new Pioneer machines rather than a Panasonic. Its good to have a clear guide as to how the WSS can be kept.

PhillipL, really helpful info. Do you know how the Pioneers handle to top menu flag for DVD-r etc, my old 5100 does not put one in at all ?

Thanks
Keith