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Old 03-11-2010, 10:40
IanL
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Thanks, Ray. That really should have done it, but my combination is not there - nothing remotely fits:

R1 - Ch 21
R3 - Ch 27
R4 - Ch 49
R6 - Ch 24

The likely source is, I think, Rennes Saint Pern, which is listed on the first link as 370 kW when it transmitted analogue, but the Channels on your link don't fit at all. Maybe they've had a shake up?
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Old 03-11-2010, 13:44
Ray Cathode
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Thanks, Ray. That really should have done it, but my combination is not there - nothing remotely fits:

R1 - Ch 21
R3 - Ch 27
R4 - Ch 49
R6 - Ch 24

The likely source is, I think, Rennes Saint Pern, which is listed on the first link as 370 kW when it transmitted analogue, but the Channels on your link don't fit at all. Maybe they've had a shake up?
There is another list here http://www.tvnt.net/V2/pages/216/med..._emetteurs.pdf which indicates a big SFN for TV Rennes throughout dept 35. P12 shows all the transmitters of TV Rennes. I guess most of the transmitters hadn't started up when it was printed.
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Old 03-11-2010, 15:04
Andy Herne
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Thanks, Ray. That really should have done it, but my combination is not there - nothing remotely fits:

R1 - Ch 21
R3 - Ch 27
R4 - Ch 49
R6 - Ch 24

The likely source is, I think, Rennes Saint Pern, which is listed on the first link as 370 kW when it transmitted analogue, but the Channels on your link don't fit at all. Maybe they've had a shake up?
When I used to live there the locals used to mention the Caen, Rouen and Rennes transmitters as the best options to the south of the island with Cherbourg, Caen and Rouen to the east and north. Certainly our house in the Royal Bay used to get analogue from Caen pretty well.

R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6
Cherbourg 35 34 59 37 57 32
Caen 25 34 22 29 23 28
Rouen 29 21 27 24 37 32
Rennes 35 46 43 40 37 42

Looking at the channels you are receiving, 21, 24 and 27 should in theory be coming from Rouen but they don't seem to tally with the multiplexes you've noted. Futher examining the list I cannot see any other transmitters that you may be getting so I can only assume that channels were re-allocated somewhere along the line.
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Old 03-11-2010, 16:04
IanL
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Thanks, Ray and Andy.

Emboldened by your efforts, I tried a google search "TNT emetteurs Rennes", and waddayaknow:

http://www.tvnt.net/forum/rennes-ant...re-t12703.html

It would seem there is a problem in keeping lists up-to-date, but that list seems more so than some (July 2008 !) and it has the four muxes I can get on the channels I have them. The muxes I do not get, R2 and R5, are transmitted at 17 and 8 (or 17, depending where you read) kW respectively, whereas the ones I do get are 80kW, which does seems to add up. The polar diagrams (Gabarits de Rayonnement) shown some reductions to the north on R2 and R5 as well. I seem to remember something about our DSO being delayed until the French made some changes, so that may be it - a reallocation of channels for Rennes. One must give credit - it is an impressive list of data, and you even get a photo of the transmitter! Oh, and the "resident guru" on the forum is "Ford Prefect".

So it looks very like I am receiving Rennes Saint-Pern in the backlobe of my antenna. I am perched fairly high up, with line of sight to some hills poking out of the horizon (seascape) to the South, which I assume to be Brittany. I had guessed that, with my mainlobe pointed in the general direction of Cherbourg, and that also being a relatively high radiated power transmitter, I'd receive that one, but the rising ground to the north of me probably prevents that.

The only question which occurs to me is whether Saint-Pern R4 on Channel 49 is a bit close to Fremont BBC B mux on Channel 47, in which case I may lose it after DSO, as Fremont will be transmitting at 3.2w kW. On the other hand, that channel is currently in use for Channel 4 analogue, so all may be well. I'll let you know in 2 weeks
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Old 03-11-2010, 17:02
Ray Cathode
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That's interesting because the documents I found were dated 2010. I am just curious why the other frequencies are wrong. But yours looks right. The site appears to be the French equivalent of mb21. I shall keep it bookmarked.

You should be all right with UK & French TV. 2 channel separation is fine. It only gets dodgy when channels are adjacent like low power Channel M is at Winter Hill on 57 next to a powerful COM1 mux on 58..
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Old 03-11-2010, 17:14
Andy Herne
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Thanks, Ray and Andy.

Emboldened by your efforts, I tried a google search "TNT emetteurs Rennes", and waddayaknow:

http://www.tvnt.net/forum/rennes-ant...re-t12703.html

It would seem there is a problem in keeping lists up-to-date, but that list seems more so than some (July 2008 !) and it has the four muxes I can get on the channels I have them. The muxes I do not get, R2 and R5, are transmitted at 17 and 8 (or 17, depending where you read) kW respectively, whereas the ones I do get are 80kW, which does seems to add up. The polar diagrams (Gabarits de Rayonnement) shown some reductions to the north on R2 and R5 as well. I seem to remember something about our DSO being delayed until the French made some changes, so that may be it - a reallocation of channels for Rennes. One must give credit - it is an impressive list of data, and you even get a photo of the transmitter! Oh, and the "resident guru" on the forum is "Ford Prefect".

So it looks very like I am receiving Rennes Saint-Pern in the backlobe of my antenna. I am perched fairly high up, with line of sight to some hills poking out of the horizon (seascape) to the South, which I assume to be Brittany. I had guessed that, with my mainlobe pointed in the general direction of Cherbourg, and that also being a relatively high radiated power transmitter, I'd receive that one, but the rising ground to the north of me probably prevents that.

The only question which occurs to me is whether Saint-Pern R4 on Channel 49 is a bit close to Fremont BBC B mux on Channel 47, in which case I may lose it after DSO, as Fremont will be transmitting at 3.2w kW. On the other hand, that channel is currently in use for Channel 4 analogue, so all may be well. I'll let you know in 2 weeks
After a bit of digging, it seems that switchover for Rennes completed its final stage in June 2010 and the transmitter now has the following allocations:

http://www.tnttest.org/details.php?r...31804246506466

Rennes
R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6
21 40 27 49 37 24

With R2 and R5 broadcasting at lower power than the four remaining multiplexes. This fits in nicely with your findings.

As for interference on Fremont Point C47 I wouldn't worry. If you are getting good results on that channel with analogue you will be fine when it converts to digital, despite the lower power.
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Old 03-11-2010, 17:32
Ray Cathode
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So the French have been dual running analogue and digital like the UK? I hadn't realised that it has been going on so long. It seems that the 1/2/11 will be a major date in the French switchover with all northern French analogue transmitters switched off. Hopefully the new transmitters will be powerful enough to pick up in the UK. Maybe a French speaker can list those transmitter sites worth trying out from the UK. Certainly the Rennes transmitter has omni coverage on the four most powerful frequencies.
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Old 03-11-2010, 17:47
Andy Herne
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After some further digging....

The channel re-allocations at Rennes for high power digital TV came into being with analogue switch-off in June 2010. Likewise, the Rouen switchover is due early February 2011 and will also bring frequency changes. This seems to dovetail quite nicely with the Fremont Point transmitter group switchover being brought forward from March 2013 to November 2010.

To complete the picture, channel allocations at Caen and Cherbourg remained as before when analogue was switched off in March 2010 and November 2009 respectively.

R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6
Cherbourg 35 34 59 37 57 32
Caen 25 34 22 29 23 28
Rouen 26 21 33 24 23 40
Rennes 21 40 27 49 37 24
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Old 03-11-2010, 17:56
Andy Herne
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So the French have been dual running analogue and digital like the UK? I hadn't realised that it has been going on so long. It seems that the 1/2/11 will be a major date in the French switchover with all northern French analogue transmitters switched off. Hopefully the new transmitters will be powerful enough to pick up in the UK. Maybe a French speaker can list those transmitter sites worth trying out from the UK. Certainly the Rennes transmitter has omni coverage on the four most powerful frequencies.
I believe DTT has been around in France for quite a while as I recall a national dual running roll-out starting in 2004/2005 to be completed in 2008 ahead of analogue switch off which was due to happen from 2009-2012.

Just as here in the UK, the French DTT network was initially run at low power alongside the analogue networks, transferring to high power at switchover. However, unlike the UK the French were pretty savvy and used SFNs in some cases, plus VHF band III was still being widely used so there was more spectrum to play with.

Although the French had 4-6 (in some cases 7) analogue channels at each main transmitter, only three networks were operated at high power on UHF and VHF: TF1, France 2 and France 3. A fourth high power service, Canal+ mostly used VHF. Arte and M6 came along much later and usually radiated at lower power at main transmitters using interleved or out of group channels in much the same way as analogue Channel 5 did when it launched here in the UK.

The majority of France's transmitters (both main and relay) will carry 6 multiplexes thanks to the widespread use of SFNs and satellite take up is encouraged in rural areas as part of the switchover process.

Unlike here, free to air television in France is marketed as a single umbrella entity called TNT, with a core set of 15-18 channels being made universally available across all platforms - terrestrial, satellite, cable and broadband. Much simpler.

Having said that when it comes to programme quality the French channels are vastly inferior to what we're used to in the UK.
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Old 03-11-2010, 18:19
Winston_1
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Reading this through I'm guessing if you wanted a TV that can operate in the UK (read Channel Islands and S.E. England) to receive both the French and local UK TV programmes you'd be better off buying a TV in France and bringing it across to the CI and/or S.E, UK? Likewise, if you're an ex-pat in a UK tv receivable area in France, you're better off buying a TV in the UK and bringing it to France although, I think, it would'nt work quite so well with local French TV tansmissions especially with pay channels like C+?
Don't follow that logic.

A UK sourced TV is better in both cases as French TV's don't have DVB-T2 for Freeview HD. A UK Freeview HD TV will receive TNT HD. TV's are cheaper in the UK as well though this may change when the VAT goes up.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:53
IanL
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After some further digging....
To complete the picture, channel allocations at Caen and Cherbourg remained as before when analogue was switched off in March 2010 and November 2009 respectively.

R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6
Cherbourg 35 34 59 37 57 32
Caen 25 34 22 29 23 28
Rouen 26 21 33 24 23 40
Rennes 21 40 27 49 37 24
Caen Mont-Pincon looks good for the UK on R1, R3 and R6 - 100kw all round, or 200 kW if you believe the Polar Diagrams :

http://www.tvnt.net/forum/caen-mt-pi...re-t12713.html
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Old 30-06-2012, 02:28
conductor71
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My understanding is that French TNT transmissions nearest to the English coast are in the process of having to change frequencies in order to avoid interference when the final English regions switch over to digital later this year. Apparently the imminent changes will result in three additional channels being broadcast in HD: TF1, France 2 and M6. This will be on multiplex 5. There should also be some improvements in coverage and reception, or so they claim. My source for this information (in French) is here:

http://www.lehavreinfos.fr/2012/06/1...-de-frequence/

It seems that some Normandie transmitters have already changed on 19th June, but those receiving their signal from Bretagne (which includes me) will have to re-tune on 3rd July. I have been receiving about 10 free TNT stations from my apartment on the south coast area of Jersey since I purchased a Sony Bravia with built-in English Freeview tuner in November 2010 for the Channel Islands digital switchover. The irony is that my feed is a communal aerial in the loft which was only intended to pick up British TV broadcasts from the nearby La Collette (St Helier) mast, yet my set automatically tuned in to these French stations too! Although the loft aerial is not pointing directly towards the Rennes area, it is positioned in a generally southern direction. I would imagine I wouldn't have been so lucky if the aerial was pointing north towards the main Fremont Point transmitter.

I have also read a separate article in French (link below) which seems to state that six new HD channels will begin to be rolled out from 12th December 2012, initially with only 25% coverage, rising to 97% by the autumn of 2014:

http://www.ingenieurduson.com/actu/8...u-12-decembre-

I would be interested to hear from anyone else who receives TNT terrestrial broadcasts as to whether they have noticed any changes, or if they can provide more detailed information on the frequency changes. I switched on after 11pm last Tuesday (26th July) but was alarmed to discover that all my French stations were unobtainable. I quickly tried to re-tune but without success. However, when I turned on again the following morning, my ten or so French channels had re-tuned themselves back in again. I can only presume there was a prolonged transmission break in Britanny that night. I should also add that in rare high pressure weather conditions, I am able to pick up more than 20 French channels, usually only for short periods though.
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Old 30-06-2012, 09:41
IanL
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I am at the top of Mont Cambrai in St Lawrence, so probably higher up than you, but my antenna is pointed towards Fremont, so I get Rennes in the backlobe. I was amazed at that, but a friend nearer the North in St Ouen, with antenna pointing well to the East of North, also has excellent reception. I deduce that height is at least as important as alignment, if not more so.

I did notice that my DVD recorder digital tuner announced it had found new channels this week, but I didn't check to find which they are. This morning, I am receiving 12 unencrypted SD channels - I lack the hardware to receive the HD and pay channels, although they appear on the EPG. I believe I used to receive 8.
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Old 30-06-2012, 09:54
Mark C
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My understanding is that French TNT transmissions nearest to the English coast are in the process of having to change frequencies in order to avoid interference when the final English regions switch over to digital later this year.
The only English region left to switch, is Tyne Tees, about 400 miles from N France. The moves happening now will be as a result of DSO in Kent and E Sussex, that have completed this week.
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Old 30-06-2012, 10:11
Franglais
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Under ideal conditions shouldn't you be receiving 18 French unencrypted SD channels?
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Old 30-06-2012, 13:03
Winston_1
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Apparently the imminent changes will result in three additional channels being broadcast in HD: TF1, France 2 and M6. This will be on multiplex 5.

I would be interested to hear from anyone else who receives TNT terrestrial broadcasts as to whether they have noticed any changes, or if they can provide more detailed information on the frequency changes.
Mulriplex 5 and those HD channels have been on air well over a year now.

Frequency change information seems difficult to find. However if you go to the link below and put the transmitter name where it asks for " Votre ville ou code postal " then click "Envoyer" it will give you current frequencies. This seems to update quickly, so do it after 3rd July to get the new frequencies.

http://www.csa.fr/csatvnumerique/ma_tnt
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:50
conductor71
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Thanks for all the responses so far. By the way, I didn't receive an e-mail alert when your messages were posted, so I have only just found them (hopefully there's a way of changing this setting somewhere).

The disappointing news is that I did a full re-tune on my Sony Bravia today (4th July) and I can still only receive exactly the same channels as before.

With thanks to Winston_1 for the link. I went to that page and typed in a sample Saint Malo postcode (35400) because I figure that Saint Malo must be roughly aligned with where my signal is coming from, being south of Jersey. It then produced the names of 6 multiplexes that I would be able to receive in Saint Malo, with the names of the channels in each multiplex.

This means I am now confident in declaring that I can receive all of the six channels in Multiplex R1 (the public broadcasts, including the local Rennes station) and all of the seven channels in multiplex R6. However, three of those channels on R6 must be subscriber-only (TF6, Eurosport and LCI) and are encrypted, although I still receive their programme listings on the Electronic Programme Guide. Therefore I can receive a total of ten free-to-air channels regardless of weather conditions- and this has been the case since I bought my current TV with built-in Freeview in November 2010.

I have checked the frequency details and my R1 channels are on 474.166 MHz while my R6 channels are on 498.166 MHz.

However, I can only pick up R2, R3 and R4 in exceptional high pressure weather conditions, which I have only noticed once this summer, about a month or so ago. As for R5, which contains the three HD channels (TF1, France 2 and M6), I have never had a sniff of them before and it will be interesting during the next high pressure spell to see if anything has changed post 3rd July. By the way, I have picked up Arte HD on R4 during extreme high pressure so it is not that there is a particular problem for me to receive the French HD broadcasts.

IanL: thanks for that information, which was what I was hoping for. I had wanted to discover if anyone in Jersey with an 'English' aerial pointing north to Fremont would be able to pick up French. I had overlooked the fact that those in the more northerly parts of the island may still perhaps have sight of French transmitters through the height advantage. I had always assumed that it was mostly people in the south east, nearest to the French coast who were able to watch French TV, at least that seemed to be the case in the old days of analogue and SECAM TV receivers, judging by the number of roof aerials in the south east that pointed towards the French coast. Maybe the digital switchover has unwittingly resulted in many more Jersey homes inadvertently being able to tune in to French stations, whereas in years gone past, only those who were dedicated enough to purchase an expensive SECAM set could do so.

I know someone living in the fourteen-storey high-rise blocks on Jersey's south east coast (potentially a great reception area) and one of their TVs receives its signal from what appears to be a communal Freeview aerial high on the roof. Unlike me, they have always been able to receive the additional five channels on multiplex R4 (although one of them is encrypted apart from at teatime), as well as R1 and R6 like me, so they get about 15 free-to-air channels at all times. I will have to contact them again post 3rd July to see if anything has changed.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:26
IanL
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.... By the way, I didn't receive an e-mail alert when your messages were posted, so I have only just found them (hopefully there's a way of changing this setting somewhere)..
At the top of the messages, on the right, click "Thread Tools" and select "Subscribe to this thread".
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:01
albertd
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The disappointing news is that I did a full re-tune on my Sony Bravia today (4th July) and I can still only receive exactly the same channels as before.
Having an interest in Rennes St Pern (aka Rennes-Becherel) I have checked what they did there and it seems that the only change was to the frequency of the HD Mux R5 to 55. Nothing else seems to have changed.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:33
conductor71
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My set has now managed to identify the new channel numbers for the three HD stations on R5, but unfortunately the signal strength is very weak at just 8%, so I can't even receive the programme listings, let alone a picture. The frequency is 746.165 Mhz.

As was the case before the re-tune, I am also able to identify once again the individual channel numbers for stations in the R2 (626.165 Mhz) and R3 (586.166 Mhz) multiplexes, which includes programme listings on the EPG. I'm sure R4 channel numbers will re-appear again soon as well. The signal strength of R2 is about 34-38%- not enough to get a picture in this rainy weather.

The person I know living in a high-rise block with better reception than me had lost all but one of their French channels when I checked yesterday, but there are workmen present on their roof near to the aerial location so it might have something to do with them being there!

IanL- thanks for that advice. I have now subscribed to this thread.
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Old 12-07-2012, 18:10
IanL
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I've just done a TV retune (wet day in St Lawrence!) and I have 19 French SD channels with good signals.

Comparing with http://www.telesatellite.com/televis...t-gratuite.asp that is the same total, but with the following differences:

Canal+ was in HD, so detected but not received
Virgin17 not detected

Direct* received despite being unlisted
TVR received despite being unlisted

I then retuned the DVD recorder, which has the same antenna signal via another channel of an aerial amplifier, and could receive only 6. It would seem that the sensitivity of the receiver is critical.

I then tried the DVB-T card in the PC, and it could find no French Channels at all, and only a few of the UK ones from Fremont. Fed by the same antenna signal, so same story.

The TV set (LG) is more sensitive than the Sony DVD Recorder and the tuner card.
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Old 12-07-2012, 20:39
IanL
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Further progress:

After finding this site https://trac.resel.fr/wiki/Administration/TNT-Rennes I was able to script the channel search facility of DVBViewer, and managed to receive 4 multiplexes (but not all channels in each) from Rennes. The two multis on channels 37 (HD or R5?) and 40 (R2) were absent.

However, on the positive side, the card is successfully decoding ArteHD from R4.

When (if?) the weather improves, I will try again.

EDIT: Just noticed the post above that the HD mux is now on 55 - done that and got the three HD channels.

So I am only missing R2 mux, which I believe should be on 622.166 - can anyone please confirm that?
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Old 13-07-2012, 12:39
conductor71
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I've just done a TV retune (wet day in St Lawrence!) and I have 19 French SD channels with good signals.

Comparing with http://www.telesatellite.com/televis...t-gratuite.asp that is the same total, but with the following differences:

Canal+ was in HD, so detected but not received
Virgin17 not detected

Direct* received despite being unlisted
TVR received despite being unlisted

I then retuned the DVD recorder, which has the same antenna signal via another channel of an aerial amplifier, and could receive only 6. It would seem that the sensitivity of the receiver is critical.

I then tried the DVB-T card in the PC, and it could find no French Channels at all, and only a few of the UK ones from Fremont. Fed by the same antenna signal, so same story.

The TV set (LG) is more sensitive than the Sony DVD Recorder and the tuner card.
IanL-

It makes me wonder if I might be able to pick up more stations if I had your LG instead of my Sony Bravia!

I presume you must be referring to DirectStar as the unlisted station you picked up, as this appears on my EPG.

Like you I cannot detect Virgin17 and I am wondering if this might only be available on satellite? Likewise, is DirectStar perhaps unavailable on satellite, hence its non-listing on the telesatellite.com website?

I don't detect Canal + in HD on my EPG.

I tried the link in your last post but it didn't work for me.
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Old 13-07-2012, 13:57
albertd
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The French terminology is rather confusing and difficult to follow. The initials TNT strictly speaking stand for "télévision numérique terrestre" from which you would think that it is the direct equivalent to Freeview. However, there appears to be a tendency to refer to some of the satellite services also as TNT, which means that channels listed in some sources do not neccesarily refer to those which can be received via an aerial (in Jersey or anywhere else!).

This list of transmitters, whilst a bit out of date (May 2012) , does include on page 1 a list of the channels which were available at that point and the multiplexes which hold them. Direct Star is included in the list, but Virgin17 is not.
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Old 13-07-2012, 16:37
IanL
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Aha - merci bien - that list is the bees knees.

I am guessing that the column headed PAR is Radiated Power, which explains why I cannot get R2 on the PC - it is only 17 kW whereas the other four are 80 kW.

Note that R5 is shown as only 8kW on Channel 37, presumably to avoid adjacent channel interference. As we now know, it has shifted to Channel 55, and I assume it is now at higher power, as I can get all three HD programmes.
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