Premium rate texts on Pay Monthly phones and the law

vodkarev · 16-05-2006, 13:55

My company has 28 handsets in the UK all on the o2 network, 22 of these are sequential numbers….

All 22 and 1 other had been receiving the same text at roughly the same time from 82110 a premium rate text number. I had all the users send the STOP statement… I contacted o2 personally and asked for these charges to be removed as none of the users had signed up.

To which they insisted every single one of the users had sent a start code and that the number was registered with ICSTIS and gave me the contact details of the company who ran the number.

I complained to ICSTIS after I could get in touch with this premium text company

ICSTIS replied saying the number was not registered with them and that as far as they were aware the number was not active on any UK network. Because of these reasons they would be unable to help me (some regulator right? This is one that needs shutting down and the powers handing to Ofcom who have a proven record)

At this point I contacted o2 again who insist we are liable for all these charges and any future charges from premium rate texts. I ask for a block on all handsets for premium rate texts not to be sent out and not to be received by any handsets… they say they don’t offer one and by being their customer we accept liability.

At this point I put and expensive and rarely used law degree to use… I called back checked first with the advisor that by signing the contact with themselves and starting a credit account due monthly that a credit agreement had been setup. They confirmed this. At this point I mention the UK Credit Consumer Act which states that the supplier becomes liable for fraudulent activity and not the consumer. In English the customer can’t be held liable if they claim it’s fraud, it is up to the supplier (in this case o2) to prove that the charges are legit…. Otherwise the customer should not be billed for them.

This went up past call centre manager and to their head office and I have finally heard back that we are in fact correct and all charges will be credited back onto our account and they apologise for the inconvenience…

My thoughts on the matter are:
1) Surely there should be a block available just like on land lines to stop premium rate abuse
2) What happens to all the other customers who don’t have a working knowledge of the law and have been charges and paid
3) Where is the money that o2 has gained illegally through this practice?
4) What is stopping me setting up a company and sending premium rate texts out to numbers using a sequential order of guessed numbers?

^ wow! One long post huh?

nafanny29 · 16-05-2006, 23:37

My GF has had premium texts received from 2 different numbers. She would NEVER subscribe to any of these services. Hell she doesnt even text just uses her phone for voice calls. Her and myself have called T-Mobile several times and get fobbed off with "she must have subscribed to receive text" bollox. Only on requesting to cancel her contract (Her average bill is £150 p/m as work pays it!!) did they say they would refund the charges as a "gesture of goodwill".

Well she has had them refunded and has now cancelled it anyway (GOOD!!!) These premium services are evil and should have an option to be user accepted on every text received (with full cost details) before charged to any account. IMHO the current system allows fraudsters to get rich quick by sending their poison to unsuspecting users without any consent or request.

Garyo2 · 17-05-2006, 03:26

I would also like to know why these services cannot just be barred and you opt in through the service providers.

When I have some time spare I will try and find out.

These services have always annoyed me.

My little sister was crying after she put her hard earned credit on her phone to find that it was eaten straight away by premium SMS.

I think one of the Ofcom regulations causes problems for the network operators in trying to bar all premium sms. However i will try and find out more.

James Clayton · 17-05-2006, 04:19

You could always do your best to find the contact details of the company and report them to the information office, asking them to take action against the company for using your contact details without authorisation.

Alternatively you may be able to issue a court summons to the company in order to get the money spent on tracing the company and the cost of the messages back. If the company doesn't turn up to court you automatically win, if they do, you win anyway because they will not be able to prove that you authorised the service.

I would say it's got to be worth.

£1.50 - the price of the text
£60 - the cost of calling companies to trace them + the time involved
£250 - The cost of preparing the court case and day in court.

You should win either way? maybe someone else could confirm this is correct.

Over £300 for a tiny bit of work, I bet they wont turn up, it will teach them a lesson. Other people have done this before I'm sure I've read about it.

vodkarev · 17-05-2006, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Clayton

You could always do your best to find the contact details of the company and report them to the information office, asking them to take action against the company for using your contact details without authorisation.

Alternatively you may be able to issue a court summons to the company in order to get the money spent on tracing the company and the cost of the messages back. If the company doesn't turn up to court you automatically win, if they do, you win anyway because they will not be able to prove that you authorised the service.

I would say it's got to be worth.

£1.50 - the/ price of the text
£60 - the cost of calling companies to trace them + the time involved
£250 - The cost of preparing the court case and day in court.

You should win either way? maybe someone else could confirm this is correct.

Over £300 for a tiny bit of work, I bet they wont turn up, it will teach them a lesson. Other people have done this before I'm sure I've read about it.

As I mention above I do have a rarely used law degree from Newcastle university, the problem with this is that whilst you may win a case you will rarely get your money from companies/people like this.

Also the company in question has been tracked down to South Africa so there is little hope anyways....

The best course of action is to get Ofcom to force network providers to offer a block for these premium services.

16-05-2006, 13:55	#1
vodkarev Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: London and Nottingham Posts: 1,527	Premium rate texts on Pay Monthly phones and the law My company has 28 handsets in the UK all on the o2 network, 22 of these are sequential numbers…. All 22 and 1 other had been receiving the same text at roughly the same time from 82110 a premium rate text number. I had all the users send the STOP statement… I contacted o2 personally and asked for these charges to be removed as none of the users had signed up. To which they insisted every single one of the users had sent a start code and that the number was registered with ICSTIS and gave me the contact details of the company who ran the number. I complained to ICSTIS after I could get in touch with this premium text company ICSTIS replied saying the number was not registered with them and that as far as they were aware the number was not active on any UK network. Because of these reasons they would be unable to help me (some regulator right? This is one that needs shutting down and the powers handing to Ofcom who have a proven record) At this point I contacted o2 again who insist we are liable for all these charges and any future charges from premium rate texts. I ask for a block on all handsets for premium rate texts not to be sent out and not to be received by any handsets… they say they don’t offer one and by being their customer we accept liability. At this point I put and expensive and rarely used law degree to use… I called back checked first with the advisor that by signing the contact with themselves and starting a credit account due monthly that a credit agreement had been setup. They confirmed this. At this point I mention the UK Credit Consumer Act which states that the supplier becomes liable for fraudulent activity and not the consumer. In English the customer can’t be held liable if they claim it’s fraud, it is up to the supplier (in this case o2) to prove that the charges are legit…. Otherwise the customer should not be billed for them. This went up past call centre manager and to their head office and I have finally heard back that we are in fact correct and all charges will be credited back onto our account and they apologise for the inconvenience… My thoughts on the matter are: 1) Surely there should be a block available just like on land lines to stop premium rate abuse 2) What happens to all the other customers who don’t have a working knowledge of the law and have been charges and paid 3) Where is the money that o2 has gained illegally through this practice? 4) What is stopping me setting up a company and sending premium rate texts out to numbers using a sequential order of guessed numbers? ^ wow! One long post huh?

16-05-2006, 23:37	#2
nafanny29 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kilburn, NW London Posts: 1,240	My GF has had premium texts received from 2 different numbers. She would NEVER subscribe to any of these services. Hell she doesnt even text just uses her phone for voice calls. Her and myself have called T-Mobile several times and get fobbed off with "she must have subscribed to receive text" bollox. Only on requesting to cancel her contract (Her average bill is £150 p/m as work pays it!!) did they say they would refund the charges as a "gesture of goodwill". Well she has had them refunded and has now cancelled it anyway (GOOD!!!) These premium services are evil and should have an option to be user accepted on every text received (with full cost details) before charged to any account. IMHO the current system allows fraudsters to get rich quick by sending their poison to unsuspecting users without any consent or request.

17-05-2006, 03:26	#3
Garyo2 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 566	I would also like to know why these services cannot just be barred and you opt in through the service providers. When I have some time spare I will try and find out. These services have always annoyed me. My little sister was crying after she put her hard earned credit on her phone to find that it was eaten straight away by premium SMS. I think one of the Ofcom regulations causes problems for the network operators in trying to bar all premium sms. However i will try and find out more.

17-05-2006, 04:19	#4
James Clayton Banned User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 799	You could always do your best to find the contact details of the company and report them to the information office, asking them to take action against the company for using your contact details without authorisation. Alternatively you may be able to issue a court summons to the company in order to get the money spent on tracing the company and the cost of the messages back. If the company doesn't turn up to court you automatically win, if they do, you win anyway because they will not be able to prove that you authorised the service. I would say it's got to be worth. £1.50 - the price of the text £60 - the cost of calling companies to trace them + the time involved £250 - The cost of preparing the court case and day in court. You should win either way? maybe someone else could confirm this is correct. Over £300 for a tiny bit of work, I bet they wont turn up, it will teach them a lesson. Other people have done this before I'm sure I've read about it.

17-05-2006, 10:29	#5
vodkarev Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: London and Nottingham Posts: 1,527	Quote: Originally Posted by James Clayton You could always do your best to find the contact details of the company and report them to the information office, asking them to take action against the company for using your contact details without authorisation. Alternatively you may be able to issue a court summons to the company in order to get the money spent on tracing the company and the cost of the messages back. If the company doesn't turn up to court you automatically win, if they do, you win anyway because they will not be able to prove that you authorised the service. I would say it's got to be worth. £1.50 - the/ price of the text £60 - the cost of calling companies to trace them + the time involved £250 - The cost of preparing the court case and day in court. You should win either way? maybe someone else could confirm this is correct. Over £300 for a tiny bit of work, I bet they wont turn up, it will teach them a lesson. Other people have done this before I'm sure I've read about it. As I mention above I do have a rarely used law degree from Newcastle university, the problem with this is that whilst you may win a case you will rarely get your money from companies/people like this. Also the company in question has been tracked down to South Africa so there is little hope anyways.... The best course of action is to get Ofcom to force network providers to offer a block for these premium services.

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Premium rate texts on Pay Monthly phones and the law