Oh by the way for the 'cost comparison' sake, Sky+ and Multiroom, all mixes, Sports and Movies is £46 / mth for first 6 months, then £52.50.

I have ADSL2+ @ up to 22Mbit for £29.99 / month, moving in a week to Sky Broadband @ £10 a month, making ongoing cost of the ADSL2+ and all those wonderful TV channels plus the extra box of £62.50.

For the sake of comparison if we just add unlimited UK calls evenings and weekends we arrive at a total of £65.45 a month.

If we take the closest thing Homechoice has to offer, which is 8Mbit (maximum) broadband, around 6Mbit when watching the TV, no PVR or additional box, far less channels and only 5 sport / movie channels, we end up with a cost of £47.99 / month for the 'Max Pack' plus £29.50 for the 3 Sky By Wire channels, total £77.49.

This is for 88 channels, the 'Max' TV pack is equivalent of Sky and a couple of mixes.

So.. Homechoice is really a cheaper option for everyone is it?

Skipping all the introductory offers Sky TV with integrated PVR and an additional box, up to 22Mbit/s broadband (my line would give around that) with BT Together option 2 is £65.45 / month.

This is for hundreds of channels, 12 movie screens along with 2 Disney Cinemagic screens, 4 sports channels and the free evening and weekend calls.

Homechoice, 85 channels, a lot of those free to air, plus 1 movie and 4 sports channels, 8Mbit broadband and the free evening and weekend calls is £77.49 / month.

I even tried to help you out there with the addition of the £10 / month Multiroom subscription. If I dumped that it'd be £55.45 for PVR, 22Mbit, loads more channels and the call package.

This is the part Peter where you frantically look around for an instance where someone in my position would be paying less for a Homechoice package than for a Sky / BT one. Your only chance is perhaps the base pack, however as that's mostly FTA I'm not optimistic for you.

Anyway much as I love tackling your supposition, accusation and downright fanboyism with facts I have things to do.
Last edited by BBRealist : 02-08-2006 at 19:44

Great, thanks for the comparitive info, useless to me, of course, and millions of other who can't or won't get Sky.

Fortunatly there is an option, its called Homechoice for people who don't want or can't get Sky.
So why are you posting about Sky?
Please explain why you can find nothing better to do than to post off topic info?
What sort of sad, pathetic individual are you? do you go into pubs and rant about the horrors of alcohol?
What else do you do, interfering and stopping other peoples fun?
Last edited by Peter We : 02-08-2006 at 20:53

So all the people who can't get Sky can get Homechoice? Where is this evidence that there are millions who can't / won't get Sky but can get Homechoice? These millions evidently prefer Freeview to Homechoice seeing as Homechoice subscriber numbers aren't even in 6 figures.

More nonsense from the amateur Homechoice PR department that is Peter We.


You asked me about my current package, and looking up the thread Sky was discussed before I mentioned it, and as this thread is discussing Homechoice and alternatives it's not off topic at all.

Look up a bit to where you couldn't understand why anyone wouldn't subscribe to Homechoice as it's better and cheaper than the competition.


Sorry if your fun is baseless pro-Homechoice trolling of this forum and my posting of facts is considered an incursion. Doesn't posting misinformation ever get boring?

Oh and once again you've been completely unable to attack what I'm posting with any sort of fact beyond a baseless and untrue comment so you decide again to attack the poster. That in itself speaks volumes.

I not interested in what you have to say.
I'm sick of the slandererous 'Homechoice is going bust' postings that have been posted continously in this forum since it was set up and in other forums before that. You are an ex-NTL and addmitted Sky customer slagging off a competitors product with half truths and convulted arguments.

The fact is, HC have not gone bust and they are at present increasing their customer base at 20% per quarter (ignoring the increase caused by the ending of Hulls IPTV service).
You predictions of HC's demises have so far proved 100% wrong.
Are homechoice bust? losing customers? No.
Do they provide a service that people want? Yes.
Is it Sky or NTL? No, thank God.

So just **** of and watch Sky and play with your internet connection because every time you post here I'll remind you that you are wrong about HC, until you are, if ever, right.
Last edited by Peter We : 03-08-2006 at 09:07

I have to say this is an entertaining exchange but Peter i am surprised that you are using the word Slander as you above everybody else on this forum seems to revel in spreading inaccuracies about HC as has been so ably hightlighted by BB Realist.

Furthermore it is surprising that you don't recognise the paucity of your arguments. Fact HC is losing money.

Fact HC has been touting around for an injection of capital (unsuccessfully).

Fact HC is giving 4 month free packages to people who are looking to leave despite their debts.

Fact HC are not providing a service that people want (read the numerous forum threads )

Fact Peter We is unable to offer an objective opinion on HC, hence why various forum members take it upon themselves to point out the groundless basis of his comments.

Peter maybe you'd be taken alot more seriously if you dealt in facts

So don't read this forum, go make your own Homechoice appreciation forum.

Find where I have given half truths and convoluted arguments please, especially considering your post history which I highlighted elsewhere. My arguments are not convoluted they are based on fact and I have supplied evidence.

My previous employment is irrelevant, my current services are irrelevant. The fact I left Homechoice and now have better and cheaper services is very relevant.


Your pathological hatred of Sky and NTL is comical.

Homechoice are of course gaining customers, shedloads of advertising will do that. Doesn't change that they have a 40% churn rate, nor that their penetration is around 3%.

Fine where I have commented on their imminent demise please. I know you have problems with facts but try just this once.


So you can't actually say anything solid to contradict my posts, all you can do is swear at me and babble semi-coherently. Again can't attack the post so attack the poster.

May I remind you and anyone reading this about what you consider to be 'right' and how far it is infact away from the truth: http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...66#post9895366

I have never said that Homechoice or their parent will be going bust imminently, I have said that competition to them is increasing, which is true, and that I have serious doubts about ther ability to continue functioning as a stand alone company. I have also highlighted the prodigious amounts of red ink that VNL have bled throughout their time trading.

You clearly have serious issues. If you think people commenting in here is slanderous you take this all far too seriously. I don't see why the fact I'm a Sky customer automatically means that I'm going to 'slag off' a competitor's product, especially when I used that product for several months. I actually think that you can't handle reality, proven by the fact you are unable to contradict what I've said about Homechoice at all.

I'm still waiting for some cohesive argument from you as to why Homechoice is so superior to the services I have, and you've continuously failed to supply them and just gotten more and more testy. If you're honest you don't have one.

Your post reads like a hastily typed rant from someone who has lost their temper.
Last edited by BBRealist : 03-08-2006 at 13:43

I don't think any of BB's arguments involved half truths or were convoluted at all. I followed his examples, which were well reasoned and they did indeed illustrate that, having the choice, Homechoice is most definitely not the most cost effective. And I think that will only get worse if they don't pull their fingers out (after all this time, where the f*ck are the 'red button' features that everyone else enjoys??!) and ramp up their services.

And unfortunately I speak as a current Homechoice customer. I desperately want them to start innovating again as the potential is still huge, but I'm seriously considering leaving. In fact I might just get Freeview and a separate unlimited broadband package for less cost..and C1 would not be missed as those programs can be downloaded from the internet without much detective work.

Half of it is the way HC never announce new channels or features, they just leave us to stumble across them. I'm pretty sure that every new feature I discovered was through this forum.

You just get the feeling that they can't be arsed anymore.

What a fantastic discussion this is! The passion a TV/ISP (or whatever) can inspire is truly amazing!

I was a HC customer, moved to Harrow though and could no longer get it as outside their area, despite being well inside the M25. I still enjoy the forum though, as I'm interested in what is a very interesting company which I really want to see do well. But lets face it - HC is a great early attempt at IPTV - but for various reasons put both eloquently and clumsily on this forum, the game is well and truly up.

In short...

HC's competition is catching up.
HC is losing money.
HC can't raise capital for long delayed national roll out.
HC is for sale.
HC is struggling to find a buyer.

I hope whoever buys it utilizes the technology, brings it forward, rolls is out, gets the content that everyone on this forum wants etc. But it needs to find a buyer quick as its burning cash.

Sorry if the above offends anyone.
Then again, seeing as the posts above have been so entertaining - lets all have a fight!

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

Pat

ps 'HC' rhymes with "Peter We". Coincidence?

>ps 'HC' rhymes with "Peter We". Coincidence?

LOL, your name isn't Wordsworth is it?

OK, I like Homechoice again now - they've just given me 4 months max speed and max pack for free...

BTW, stop bickering you two...

Told them not to even bother offering discounts to me.

That's pretty impressive though nearly £50 a month of services FOC for 4 months with no contract extension.

End of the day we are (nearly) all in for as much as we can get at as good a price as possible so why not?

glad to see my initial post sparked an interesting debate. first off johnny rocker, your right the dates dont match from when i got broadband to when i signed up here, simple really i didnt find out about this forum until i had been with homechoice sometime.

Second Mr Wee.. oops i mean we, your comment about this not being a sky topic... again you get the facts wrong . when i started this post it was not only concerning homechoice giving me 4 months free ( a desperate plea by a desperate company to keep customers) but also to point out the far superior benefits in transferring to sky.

at every turn you spout incorrect facts about HC's abilities as a server provider of any kind yet despite all the facts that show and prove that homechoice is an overpriced, poorly run company with no redeemable features you insist on arguing with anyone who slights homechoice in any way.

If you dont like it dont read the posts, stay outa the topics and go form your own little HC supporters club elswhere,.
Im sure you and.... well just you going by alot of peoples views on here will be very happy on your www.ilovehomechoice.com website.

lastly cos i really cant be arsed with wasting bandwidth on your incessant HC obsessed rants is you constantly quote how Hc's customer base is gaining by 20%

the truth is that may be a 20% gain in New customers signing up from the previous months but then lets compare that to the unquoted figures of customers leaving HC each month for far better services supplied by other companies

It is worth mentioning that the current growth rate across Western Europe for IPTV is above 20% / quarter and the UK is specifically singled out as being a weak area for IPTV, which is reflected in the huge churn rate (around 40%, 3 times that of Sky / cable) and relatively slow growth of Homechoice despite a huge and ongoing advertising spend in London:

http://www.gartner.com/press_release...148795_11.html Table 1.


Of course as these stats are not pro-Homechoice they must be wrong or biased as Homechoice isn't even mentioned in this article.


Homechoice are certainly installing at a fairly good rate but again the huge churn rate is a major issue that's hurting. Companies that aren't having issues retaining customers don't offer 4 months of services free.
Last edited by BBRealist : 05-08-2006 at 12:27

More lies NTLMan.

Where did you get your 40% churn rate from? you made it up didn't you?
I also like the way you link NTL and Sky as having similar churn, when NTL (19.2%) has twice that of SKy (10.6%) (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/research/tv/...q4/q4_2005.pdf)

I'm not saying HC are not lose customers but all companies offer deals to keep them for obvious reasoning that its cheaper than getting new ones. You can't draw any conclusions or slag them off for it.

Also IPTV is doing badly in the UK, but it still has 20% growth on the last quarter (actually HC picked up the additional Hull IPTV service customer numbers so HC's growth was actually 35%). Either figure is the same as European growth of IPTV, not worse as you imply. The reason, as the report states, is because of BkyB

Homechoice got 8.5% (or 12% with hull) of ALL new digital TV subscribers even though the only have one tenth of the coverage of Cable or satellite.
View that way, NTL in particular looks piss poor.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/research/tv/...tu_2006_q1.pdf

Going with Sky would be a last resort for me. I have been with Homechoice for many years and was excited by this new technology but as we all know the climate is changeing a quickly which is a shame for HC considering it was one the first out there.

But despite my dislike for Sky it will always come down to the service on offer. Homechoice has changed the way I watch TV but like many Im as loyal as what I get for my money.

Could be worse, I could be famed on this forum as Homechoice man. I don't work for ntl and haven't for over a year, while you claim to have never worked for Homechoice and are happy spout nonsense.


Have a read of the Register, can't be bothered to find the exact URL but you'll find a remark in there from a story regarding Homechoice being up for sale coming complete with a 40% churn rate - more than satisfactory for a lawsuit if untrue.

Unlike yourself I don't engage in propoganda, and I love the way that you are trying to use this as a personal attack on my credibility. Yours couldn't get much lower in this forum if you insulted every poster personally, though your constant insults to their intelligence is probably enough.


My mistake, churn for ntl was 1.3% = 15.6% during the year. Your own PDF indicates this is the case though you've found 19.2% from somewhere, no idea where. Yep I made a mistake there, it happens, hands up.


If this company is gaining customers so quickly, etc, etc, why do they need to offer £200 of free product to people to retain them? Who's slagging who off anyway? I just commented on the discount being impressive?


I don't understand. IPTV is doing badly in the UK, no IPTV is doing fine in the UK it's growing as quickly as Europe? 20% growth is a touch less than the growth in Europe. In any case I thought Homechoice was far superior to Sky, so why would a company like BSkyB be any obstacle to Homechoice?

So let's have a look at your PDF nonetheless. Homechoice cover a bit under 1/10th of the UK's homes I believe, Ofcom citing 25.2 million TV homes. Homechoice cover around 2.4 million in London.

So.. 25.2 million homes, Sky have 7.692 million customers, cable 2.794 million, digital only of course. Homechoice had in Q1 2006... 48,545.

I see no stats for Hull by the way, just stats for TV over ADSL as a single entity?


Serious? There are 24 million homes in the UK covered by cable? That means there are 48 million homes in the uk all together! That's like nearly 1 home for every single one of us.

Now let's deal with facts shall we just for a moment. You seem to think I'm a cable fanboy, which those who know me will tell you I'm not. However...

Perhaps you'd care firstly to tell me why ADSL added 8,500 customers over its' 2.4 million home footprint, while cable across 12.656 million homes added over 70,000 digital cable customers, this from that Ofcom report, if cable is so appauling. Correct me if I'm wrong but that suggests cable growing faster relative to its' covered area than Homechoice?

Where are the stats for Hull? The stats provided are for TV over ADSL?

A link to where Homechoice received 8.5% of all new digital TV customers would be handy as well, that PDF shows growth of 8.5% in pay TV services only, certainly not in all digital services, so who's telling porkies there? I love the capitalisation of ALL to try and add emphasis to the BS though.

I think it's also fair to say that growth comparison is rather irrelevant as Homechoice have relatively recently rolled out to new areas and are heavily advertising. Doesn't mean the product is any better just that they have been advertising tons while prior to a relatively few weeks ago cable wasn't advertising at all. Growing a subscriber penetration of sub 2% of passed homes is somewhat easier than a penetration of 30%. (Remember cable isn't just digital and offers other services before you comment on cable's TV penetration being around 25%).

Sky's growth was relatively slow, they did add 194k customers in Q4 2005 though.

Either way that growth is fairly predictable, probably those homes that can't receive Sky or cable and have a Pay TV option for the first time. Show me where Homechoice are taking digital customers from Sky and ntl and I'll be far far more impressed. Cable and Sky have been available in areas for years, Homechoice available in some areas for a matter of months. Is it really that big a leap of imagination that they are growing their userbase, especially considering its' really pretty miniscule size?

More FUD from the master though. Keep working on it, you should go into PR. You might even be able to convince someone to throw the money that Homechoice want at them to expand their network. Their bankers haven't managed it so far but if someone can talk them up it's definitely you.
Last edited by BBRealist : 07-08-2006 at 00:11

Think I'm going to leave this topic alone from this point on. Regardless of the fact Mr We that the only person agreeing with you is, well, you, which you'd think suggests something, I've better things to do than argue with this forum's troll.

I've also better things to do than respond to your pretty lame attacks on my character. I've proven in the past that your perception of the truth is a little distorted to say the least. Your attempts to do the same to me, while entertaining, have failed pretty poorly thusfar. You must be very proud.

I love the way you try and offend me by attacking cable as well - like I care

Hope that anyone who visits this forum looking for an impartial opinion on the Homechoice services reads this and other recent threads and realises that you are one of the worst sources of disinformation anyone could wish for, and to treat you as such. So long as that happens at least once my time isn't wasted

I leave you with news of a company that apparently was going to be offering ADSL2+ last year, and has been looking, and failing, to secure additional finance since 2004. Fairly ominous considering some of the crap that gets funded (such as Bulldog).

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09...oice_wakes_up/

Ah yes and..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02...sky/page3.html

http://www.digitaltx.tv/blog/?page_id=61

I'm sure an IPTV/VoD consultancy wouldn't make such a claim lightly?


Tata
Last edited by BBRealist : 07-08-2006 at 07:29

Read the definition of a Troll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Fits you, not me. Your use of the word alerted me to your true nature. You have absolutely no reason except a vindictive one.

>I'm sure an IPTV/VoD consultancy wouldn't make such a claim lightly?

Where did they get that figure from eh? Pure guess work and rumor much like you post here. The fact is NTL and to a less extent Sky have very strong commercial fears of IPTV, not just from Homechoice. NTL is sitting on £billions of worthless cable assets thanks to IPTV and they will not be happy about it.
People like you have spent YEARS posting rumors and innuendo against HC , when it comes from an ex-employee (admitted) its no longer simply fun or an interesting pastime - its potentialy fraudulent.

So, Tata and F*** off.

BBRrealist - Peter We just told you to "f*** off"! You're not going to take that are you? Never mind 'Tata' get back here and fight!

Is there really any point? The guy is insane!


Or being an ex-customer who doesn't like to see someone like you lying on this forum about Homechoice, both the quality of their service and their stability and status as a company.

I'm not the one posting repetitively accusing the other person because they worked for a cable company of being biased, without showing anything to back it up. I'm not the one who has used the F word a couple of times. Nor am I the person posting inflammatorily, I'm challenging to produce facts and Mr We is failing and responding by posting inflammatorily and offensively. I'd call that trolling.


Hilariously paranoid garbage. Anyone who really thinks that many people care about Homechoice should consider a trip to the psychiatrist for paranoia and egocentrism. Of course, cable is really scared of Homechoice and their, erm, 50,000 customers. Companies with over 3 million customers, market caps of over 6 billion USD and billions in assets are always scared of companies described by analysts as being in freefall and looking for a purchaser. I do of course make it my business to post as much disinformation as possible about Homechoice. Nothing at all to do with me being an ex-customer who left for a better product and taking offense at a Mr We consistently posting complete BS on here.


Or market research and insider knowledge, that agency are professionals so the great Peter We insults them thinking he knows better than one of the foremost IPTV analysts in the world. Doing exactly what I thought he would because they besmirch his beloved Homechoice.

Ex-employee? The man appears to struggle badly with the definition of 'ex-employee' in other words, I left the company to work elsewhere. Hardly fits with the idea of posting on forums to big up an ex-employer.

The guy is either insane or trolling, no reasoning with him at all.

Oh and again yes again attacking the poster not what I'm saying because he knows he's talking complete BS. Homechoice are so little of a threat to Sky and cable at present it's not even funny.

IPTV will grow for sure, however it won't be Homechoice spearheading it, it'll be BT Vision and similar, upselling Freeview.

I was going to leave it be but Mr We had to have the last word and it was pretty offensive to be honest, which I find unacceptable. I'm rather tired of the constant character attacks and have, therefore, reported the relevant post as being intensely light on facts, written by someone of dubious grasp on reality, and extremely rude.

A look through Peter We's post history shows months of disinformation regarding Homechoice, from them growing at 10,000 / 5,000 customers a week to them having around 100,000 customers at the start of the year to them installing 550 customers a day.

It's really quite scary that the guy has been allowed to post such nonsense for such a length of time, and it's amusing how defensive and abusive he gets when someone pulls him up on it and shows facts as to why it's nonsense.
Last edited by BBRealist : 07-08-2006 at 13:17

Please don't report Peter, he is comedy gold

Please keep this thread on topic. Any further off-topic disruption of this kind will result in the closure of the thread and bans/warnings being issued to those involved.

Kris

Leave it out Kris, this is great!

Peter We - you aren't going to let BBRealist have the last word now are you?

Peter, what I genuinely am puzzled about is that if HC is doing as well as you seem to claim, why do you think they have failed to expand outside M25 after saying that has been their plans for so long?

Reports state that they have been up for sale for a long time, as money is running out. They also point to the failure to secure new funding. Do you believe these reports to be lies?

Now, I am genuinely interested in what you have to say on this, so get back on topic, as Kris has requested, and stand up and fight for HC!

Nope, don't feed the Troll.

I'll repeat the questions again, as I'm also interested in your opinion. Part of understanding someone's point of view is understanding why they have it and all that.

I assure you that I will not comment on what you say, as I think I already have offered my opinion and to offer it again wouldn't contribute to the thread, therefore no 'feeding the troll' involved at all.

These are pretty challenging questions, could promote a good discussion: