I hope somebody can help with a problem we've been having with our BT landline recently.

We have had permanent caller ID witholding ever since BT introduced the service in 1995 or thereabouts due to problems in the past with nuisance calls (we are also ex-directory). In the past 2 weeks or so however we have had at least 4-5 calls from people claiming we called them and they even claim to have our caller ID on their mobile phones and recite it perfectly. In fact we have not called any mobile phones in this 2 week period. How can this be happening? My theory is someone is calling these mobiles, ending the call after a few rings but transmitting our number as caller ID. Is this possible and, more importantly, is it probable? Anyone else had any similar problems? BT have said it could be a crossed line somewhere in the system but would need the mobile numbers of the people who claim to have been "called" by us. This is fine in theory however the last person who called us this afternoon to tell us about us "calling him" left a landline number as caller ID (although he did give us his the start of his mobile number but I forgot to write it down ) Any advice would be appreciated - thanks

Well I've had a familar thing happen to me in past with my mobile phone.

I had a very angry man on the phone claiming that I was sending his daughter naughty texts and I wasn't. (She'd be so lucky as I'm gay - ha ha) anyways I called Orange and the Police and they're answer was change your number!

So I do belive they can manage to spoof your number somehow.

I used to be able to spoof CLID to display any number, be it 00000, 011111, or even a real looking number, but not assigned. However the service I was using for my calls is no longer available.

This is scary and is my worry - that somehow someone is spoofing the CLID on our landline and is out to create trouble. Since posting this we've had one more call from a supposed person who had our CLID on his mobile but his CLID showed up as Anonymous (so witheld) on our CLID box and he hung up before giving us his mobile number. If we get anymore calls like this though I think I'll go back to BT and see what, if anything, they can do short of changing our number.....

As far as sending text goes, from any number you want its very easy.

http://www.a1sms.co.uk/

Don't know if it is possible from a normal phone.

But have you wallet ready!
So that's £1.50 to get a code (to enable messaging, you have to send a text to a short text number and they send a message - which costs you £1.50 to receive - back) and another £1.50 for each message sent.

And then they have you number and could keep sending you messages at £1.50 a time.

I can spoof again, any number any country, I can display phone numbers such as 0123456789, VoIP Cheap have updated their softphone, this allows you to assign any number as an outgoing number, unless you have a VoIP In number from them.

We've got the exact same problem. People calling us, claiming we'd called them, our number is displayed on their phone (mainly seems to be mobiles). Some of them say we've called them maybe once, others it would seem many times. Of those that we've meant to have called some are ok when we explain the problem. Others claim we're lying and we just receive torrent of verbal abuse and threats to involve the police! A blessing is disguise maybe?
As far as BT (line rental) Onetel (billing) go neither seem to care and blame one another. I'm getting nowhere with them and it's so so painful when I have to talk to either of them. Until these companies recognise that this is going on and escalate possible CLID spoofing cases to the Telecommunications Ombudsman, us consumers are the ones that pay.
I spoke to Ofcom an hour ago about this. However from their perspective I seem to be the only one they're aware off with this problem...Although it was highlighted in the press as a potential problem at least 18 months, if not longer ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4482139.stm
Of course though, Ofcom is a body that can act only on evidence, so it's not helping that BT, Onetel and the rest are essentially burying the evidence when they test their hardware and software, find no problem and close of the fault (leaving the consumer without an answer - which is bad enough!).
Ironically though the evidence is there is no evidence!... apart from the number on the mobile phone and the strange absence of any records of us calling those mobile numbers.
Who knows how many similar faults BT etc have misdiagnosed! I think reporting this to BBC's Watchdog would be a start. If enough of us do maybe the media will assist in getting this problem recognised and addressed? What do others think?

It is entirely possible that the telecoms companies genuinely do not have any evidence however.

There are two caller ID fields in the data burst that accompanies a phone call. One is a "public" number which you will see displayed on your phone. The other is a "private" number used mainly for billing. Though other organisations such as the 999 operator and, I believe, the Gas emergency lines can see this number.

You can change the "public" number fairly easily. For instance in a couple of minutes I could re-program the phone next to me to send your phone number - if I knew it. It is not that difficult on many company switchboards and some VOIP operators give you that facility as well.

The trouble is the telecoms companies may not record the "public" number. After all they are only interested in getting money back for the call. So they would only really be interested in the private billing number.

So when you complain to BT they check their records and as far as they are concerned no calls from your number have been made to the other person, because all they see is the billing number. Whoever is spoofing your CLI will obviously have a different billing number to yours - unless they have some very clever kit!

Not sure how to solve the problem. Perhaps the Telecoms companies ought to be recording the public CLI number alongside the billing number. that would certainly help in tracking down incidents like this.

I am having the same problem with my Telewest line - people we've never met are calling up saying that they have missed calls on their mobiles from our number. Telewest are supposedly looking into it at the moment but there seems to be rather patchy awareness of the possibility of caller ID spoofing within their organization. I'm going to give them a chance to have a go at it but I would also like to get in touch with Ofcom as well; they need to know that this is happening in the UK.

Someone at Telewest told me that it couldn't be spoofing as someone doing that would never use a real number, but there's no real other explanation (they are looking into the possibility that it's a "crossed line" but the patterns of call times don't make sense to me that way).

All BT operator services, including Directory Enquiries services will see the actual number, regardless of whether you use a "public" number for CLI for business purposes, or even if you withold your number.

BT used the same "crossed line" rubbish as an excuse but I strongly suspect it is caller ID spoofing. My case is eerily similar to wydmex. I am going to be calling up OFCOM about this tomorrow and if they start to claim it cannot be done I shall point them to the BBC article as proof. In the end though, if the calls continue (and they have done at a rate of at least 1-2 calls a week) I feel Watchdog may be a viable suggestion, especially as their new series is not too far away.

Contact centres can also program their telephony switch to show any CLI they want, so it may be a contact centre has mistyped a CLI on their system

An update: I did speak with a BT engineer a couple of weeks back who told me he suspected it may be caused by the use of 0844 lo-cal numbers used by companies that provide low cost calls to foreign countries. Somehow, don't ask me how (and he didn't explain all that convincingly to be honest) it's through the use of some of these kinds of services that could ultimately end up bouncing our CLI around random stranger’s mobile phones!

It just so happens we do use CheapestCalls.co.uk quite a bit as we have friends and family abroad. We've been using it for about the last 2 years although it's only been during the last 6 months we've been getting these calls from strangers that have told us we have called them.

However far out this suggested cause was, we decided to heed the engineer's advice and keep away from that particular 0844 service for a while and see if the calls reduced.
Coincidently they have, we haven't had a problem call back in over 2 weeks.

However, since the engineer’s explanation is a little unbelievable, I'm leaning towards exactly that, it's simply a coincidence and we’ve just been lucky or folks have just not bothered contacting us…Anyway how many people nowadays call numbers back they don’t recognise? Not many I’m sure.

Anyone out there that can explain how the use of an 0844 number, servicing low cost international calls can potentially end up bouncing a landline CLI around the mobile networks? Surely for this to happen someone's software has to be severely screwed up?

This would make sense as we use the cheap providers a lot and this would be possible however we have 1471 turned on all the time so whoever we call, our CLID should be left as anonymous but we have gotten calls in the past cliaiming to be from TeleDiscount and other similar companies claiming we used their service (we did) and would we like them to send out a revised list of numbers (we always answered no).

Just to add a new twist to this whole sorry tale, someone called us at 10:31 this morning using our number as caller ID!

Doesn't the ring back service use your own CLID when calling you back once the dialled line is clear? Never used the service so can't be sure.

As for Telediscount calling you, they will have your number, as you have used their service, withholding your number or permanent number withheld only withholds your presentation number, that is the number displayed to the end caller, telecoms operators will still see your actual phone number, same as when you call BT and withhold your number, they will still see your number and can tell you had withheld your presentation number, same as when you call emergency services.

I have sometimes for a laugh called a friend using their own number as the CLID.

Well, the problem still persists, even though we haven't been using Cheapest Calls we had another call this morning which my wife took. There's been a couple of others I think too since we've had a couple of missed calls from mobiles we didn't recognise.
This time I called OneTel/TalkTalk as this is who our calls are billed via. (Line rental is still with BT)
BT anyway have already pretty much told us they are no longer interested in our problem since as far as they are concerned their infrastructure is fine and advised I should call Onetel next time it happens. Hell they refused out rightly to let me even raise a complaint with them when I got nowhere with their fault division. To be honest I’d be very happy if we don’t have to speak to them ever again!
Unsurprisingly in speaking to OneTel they told me they they’re not going to even investigate since my line rental is with BT and I should speak to them.
I think it was at this point something snapped.
After a few colourful comments and the red mist had cleared I (relatively calmly) asked them to take the line rental over from BT; simply explaining that my problem will then become wholly their problem. Of course they obliged and almost promised that all my problems will be gone once this had happened! Aye right! I’ll believe it when I see it!

So...in 10 days we'll be 100% Onetel, calls and rental. Hopefully then we might see some progress, even if that's simply means Onetel acknowledging the existence of CLID spoofing or that something is severely messed up with the CLID service.
As I said to the Ontel woman. I’m sure Onetel with what is likley to be a multi million pound contact with BT can get a lot more out of them than me with my measly 10 pound a month contract! – Let’s hope that’s true!

Oh dear, oh dear, you are going to quickly regret ever moving your line rental away from BT.

The problems will continue, and you will still get no joy, people on Telewest are having the exact same problems.

Now your line rental is moving away from BT, you will no longer be able to use low cost calls providers, you will no longer get caller display for free (therefore making your line rental and services dearer than BT) and making your calls dearer than you could have got, they do block cheap call access, if they find you have got around the block, they will either charge you more than the published rate for any call-though number you use, increase line rental to cover the lost of revenue or kick you off their line rental service.

All you have done is made a very bad mistake moving line rental.

MadMulla,
Thanks for the head's up.
I've not heard about that before to be honest. I still get 1571 for "free" and I pay 1.50 +VAT for CLID. ( I was paying that before with BT too)
There's nothing to say I can't make use of 0844 low cost call providers either.
Well, let's see how we get on, if any of what you suggests starts to happen I guess I go crawling back to BT!

For the last 15 months or so, you have been able to get caller display for free from BT, via www.bt.com/btprivacy or calling 24hr automated line: 0800 916 5544.

If you do use the 0844 etc dial thru numbers, keep an eye on the charges, as the published rate for the number is only from BT landlines, often from other providers the costs are higher, there was details in their T&C about use of other carriers, definitely still there on the TalkTalk service, which is what everyone on OneTel is being transfered to.

MadMulla,
Thanks for the advice. My billing has been with OneTel for over 2 years now and it's on this bill where the 0844 numbers have always shown up. Now that I'm with them for rental too it should make no real difference to the billing I hope. Fingers crossed.
I'm just hoping that now that my contract is with one company there's less of a chance for us to be bounced from pillar to post! No more BT blaming OneTel and vice versa.
Watch this space.

No, it won't make much difference to your billing.

Except that you're now going to have to pay £1.50 extra each month for Caller Display - which you could get with BT for nothing;

And you're now going to have to pay 10% extra for your 084/087 calls (without notifying customers, OneTel increased their charges back in 2005 - see the links below). Before you moved your line rental, you at least had the option to dial 1280 to send such calls out on BT at BT's published rates.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...d.html?t=72952

http://www.onetel.co.uk/index.php?no...l-rates-nongeo

As MM says, moving line rental was a bad move - which is going to cost you dearly.
Last edited by Heinz : 25-09-2006 at 09:32

What can I say; ignorance in this case is indeed bliss. We've neither bothered using 1280 to dial out using BT and never subscribed to the free CLID service...i.e. nothing really should change for us as far as far as our bill goes.

Anyway the point of this exercise was not for me to drive the costs of our bill down by a few bob each month but hopefully to make it easier for us to put focused pressure on the telecommunications companies.
As it stood previously BT were all too quick to blame Onetel and Onetel to blame BT. We saw no resolution or acknowledgement from either that CLID spoofing was even possible. To be honest their responses were a complete farce. Basically their rule of thumb appears to be... If it's not in their crib sheet of known problems then it's not happening - Problem solved, call closed! - Stats look great don't they?
Anybody bothered asking the customer if I'm happy with the so called "resolution"?

Now hopefully with our contract with one company I can apply pressure to Onetel until such time they resolve the "fault", if one exists or they recognise the fact that CLID spoofing is happening. They need to realise that there's others out there just like us struggling away unheard because these companies don’t acknowledge it's happening! Until they do, the Ombudsman can't act and these problems will only get worse.

Far, any joy with Ofcom or Watchdog?

I have had exactly the same problem with people receiving calls with my caller ID. For the last 6 months I have been getting calls from people saying they just missed a call from me. Of course I never made the call. The number calling me back is generally a mobile, though I have had some back from Ghana and Malaysia as well.

The people calling me back from UK numbers seem to have, as a general rule, heavy African accents.

Having spoken to some people who "missed a call" from me, they say that it rang just once or twice and no message was left, except for one occasion, where a message was left but the caller was very difficult to understand (i.e. heavily accented).

I spoke to my network provider, Orange, who have REFUSED to believe that I didn't make the calls accidentally, and keep coming back with instructions as to how to operate my keyguard!! So for six months I have got nowhere in sorting it out.

Since then, it has started happening at my office, whereby someone calls saying they just missed a call from our office, and it has also happened to my dad... really weird.

On reading this website I noticed that someone thought it could have something to do with using 0844 numbers. I have used in the past (though not at all recently) Just Dial which has an 0844 number providing access to certain international destinations. I might have used it in my office, and my dad might have used it also. But I can't be sure.

This is becoming a real problem. I get a call a day from someone saying they just missed a call. I have been in other countries, in the Channel Tunnel, had my phone switched off, and people still "miss calls" from my number.

Any thoughts anyone?

mark55,
It looks like you're having the same problem as us.
All I can suggest is to keep a record of the calls, the numbers and the times etc.
It is looking more and more likely that there are individuals out there, gathering numbers (the likes of yours and ours) and then using them to prank call others by spoofing their CLID using our numbers. Maybe un-reputable staff running some of these 0844 lo-call companies...who knows?

I'm sounding like a broken record now but these telecommunications companies really need to wake up and realise that they have a responsibility to their customers to protect us from such acts and that means to capture and report on instances of possible CLID spoofing so that Ofcom can see what's happening and take action. Telling us how to lock our phones or that their equipment is working fine is not going to wash anymore!

Certainly once I've gathered enough evidence I'll be writing a letter to Watchdog, I'm sure this will be something they'd be interested in. Maybe they'd help the likes of BT, Orange, Onetel etc to extract their heads out of the sand?