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CRT = Clear Real Television
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call100
27-08-2006
Originally Posted by mongosito:
“The above is the same bull being used by LCD supporters on every thread.
They know the pix are crap,we know the pix are crap,the salespeople know the pix are crap,but while mugs shell out for sexy cabinets that look better off than on,they'll keep selling them.
Unfortunately,with HD broadcasting already here and the majority of the public not caring less about quality or even recognising it,LCD/plasma sets ARE the way forward.
I'm in the market for a new set within a year and I will buy an LCD/plasma,but I'm hoping that HD broadcasting and HDDVD players are more readily available than they are now.
LCD dos look awesome if you are 20 feet away,up close its dross.
The usual get out clause is that its not setup properly and of course Curry's/Comet etc don't come out well in that deaprtment.
However,as I posted on another thread,I've seen sets in Sevenoaks Sound and Visions,Richer Sounds and even the high end retailers in Central London and not one has had me gasping at any improvement with DVD or Sky.
As Jarrak(a pro LCD poster) points out on another thread,SD pictures will not look very good on LCD,especially pix from Sky with its low bitrate mess ,and DVD is the best that SD will give you,yet even upscaled the difference is not worth the expense.
I'd love to have a nice thin screen on the wall,but until HD is available or I can adjust my viewing to 20 feet,I'll stick with CRT and its incredible bulk”

Once again you post utter crap. It doesn't matter how many time you post it. Your main thrust is still to call people liars or insult there eyesight. You have the unfortunate view of yourself that only you have the perfect vision and only you know whats good.
Rack off and give it a rest...
natural lamer
28-08-2006
Originally Posted by call100:
“Thats really great, You are getting your advice from a Currys/Comet man...That says it all.....
tvholic a bit like alcoholic...doesn't really know whats what...
”

LOL, yep that was my first thought as well. Great plan listening to a Currys/Comet salesperson, yeah that will go well.
mongosito
28-08-2006
Originally Posted by call100:
“Once again you post utter crap. It doesn't matter how many time you post it. Your main thrust is still to call people liars or insult there eyesight. You have the unfortunate view of yourself that only you have the perfect vision and only you know whats good.
Rack off and give it a rest...”

Check out the LCD thread where a few posts from the more technically minded members actually gives you some techi info to show what many know already----thats its technically impossible for LCD to give a better display of SD(not HD) material than a GOOD CRT.
I insult you only in the same way I would insult the viewers who watch 4:3 pix stretched on a 16:9 screen in composite ,and don't even realise but still think their pix are "excellent".
Both the LCD and CRT threads have a good many posts from those expressing similar views to my own.
The bottom line is that you like your LCD.
I'm happy for you---I really am.
But as you can see,many people,not just me,can see how LCD displays the SD defects to a higher degree than CRT.
Even some LCD supporters agree on that,so its only right that its pointed out to those in the market for an LCD that they should audition the sets first and not go in blindly as some have obviously done then start moaning.
Some of the lesser mags and some of the sales people try to convince you that buying an LCD will give you instant heaven once switched on,but even you know thats not true for all video sources.
The buyer must beware.
Having said that,some buyers may have a viewing distance of 15-20 feet and LCD will look good anyway,but surely you don't agree that buyers should go in uninformed?
Not all LCD's are equal,just as its the same for CRT.
Those buying a new set,including me,are looking forward to a sexy slim screen,but I'm not going to be let down by the pictures,so I'm holding off for a while.
Similarly,someone with Sky HD and/or a US HDDVD player will be perfect for an LCD set.
Its not a perfect science.
Many of those buyers will be the same wallies who have been watching stretched pictures,composite pictures etc and once they have their LCD set they won't mind or perhaps even see or care about those defects.
But its right to assume that many buyers are not the wallies,so they should be told what to expect
Last edited by mongosito : 28-08-2006 at 21:57
Technophile
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by mongosito:
“They know the pix are crap,we know the pix are crap,the salespeople know the pix are crap,but while mugs shell out for sexy cabinets that look better off than on,they'll keep selling them.

DVD is the best that SD will give you,yet even upscaled the difference is not worth the expense.”

Why not can it. You plainly don't know what you're talking about and you just keep saying everybody's lying if they disagree with you. The "pix" on my LCD are excellent, and I personally doubt that you've ever seen a picture on an LCD through an upscaling DVD - go on admit it. You're the kind of pest that gives internet forums a bad name.
call100
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by Technophile:
“Why not can it. You plainly don't know what you're talking about and you just keep saying everybody's lying if they disagree with you. The "pix" on my LCD are excellent, and I personally doubt that you've ever seen a picture on an LCD through an upscaling DVD - go on admit it. You're the kind of pest that gives internet forums a bad name.”

I'll second that. He's so out of touch...Poor soul!
rufnek2k6
29-08-2006
So much abuse for a guy expressing his views, go easy on the poor sod people
call100
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by rufnek2k6:
“So much abuse for a guy expressing his views, go easy on the poor sod people”

Have no problem with the fool expressing his views. The problem is that if anyone says anything different to his views he labels them liars or visually impaired. Hardly a convincing argument....
2Bdecided
29-08-2006
Is there an LCD TV which gives a better picture than a good CRT?

Can I find one in my local Sony Centre, or even my local Currys (gulp)?

I ask because I'm keen to see such a beast, if it exists.

Cheers,
David.
skinj
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by 2Bdecided:
“Is there an LCD TV which gives a better picture than a good CRT?

Can I find one in my local Sony Centre, or even my local Currys (gulp)?

I ask because I'm keen to see such a beast, if it exists.

Cheers,
David.”

It really depends what source you are go to be watching.
If you have a really good analouge tv signal the picture will be fairly good on the lcd, but not quite as good as the crt. If you are watching dtt or sky the crt will still give a better image as the low bitrates are less obviously displayed by the crt. The lcd has to do more processing to match the res of the broadcast to the native res of the screen.
If watching a well mastered/recorded dvd the lcd may have the edge unless there is a lot of quick motion or very dark moody scenes (like batman films or the matrix). If watching an HD broadcast the lcd again will have the edge as it has a higher resolution thus giving more detail on the screen. unless of course the movemant is very fast or the picture is very dark.
Interestingly if you connect a Sky HD box via rgb scart/component to a top end tv such as the Panasonic acuity and run a HD source the picture is stunning. I would say better then the LCD on overall performance.
mongosito
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by Technophile:
“Why not can it. You plainly don't know what you're talking about and you just keep saying everybody's lying if they disagree with you. The "pix" on my LCD are excellent, and I personally doubt that you've ever seen a picture on an LCD through an upscaling DVD - go on admit it. You're the kind of pest that gives internet forums a bad name.”

You and Call100 are obviously from the same school of retarded thinking.
Its been shown to you on these threads that many LCD owners and CRT owners know that the pix from SD sources are not up to scratch.
Jarrak and others have even given you techi info to support these facts.
You are obviously both too thick to see it or acknowledge it,but perhaps your dodgy sight is what makes you believe the opposite of what clearly is true and has been proven to be true.
The reason I call you liars is because I have seen sets displayed from all levels of retailers and all levels of sources so I know what you are looking at.
As I said before in the last few years I have spoken to and seen many setups that the owners claim are "excellent",while seeing these setups are watching stretched 4:3 pix instead of correctly setup displays,composite instead of RGB,even analogue channels stretched to fill a 16:9 set,so I treat your opinions with equal disdain.
If I was the only one saying it you could have a point,but as there are many with the same views,even those who have LCD,the "incorrect setup" crap is simple justification for the fact you realise you have bought crap and are stuck with it.
I notice Call 100 has not repsonded to the comment I made regarding his earlier post in another thread where he said his LCD display of VHS was "excellent".
Surely that tells you something about his standards of quality.
The upscaled dvd's I recently saw were better than Sky on an LCD set,but still don't match a good dvd on a good CRT
mongosito
29-08-2006
And Technoman ,you may want to look at the LCD thread where a new buyer has gone and bought one on impulse and has come to the same conclusion as most savvy buyers,and he also noticed the contrast ratio listed,although some idiot said it was now unimportant---I wonder WHO THAT WAS
Technophile
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by mongosito:
“And Technoman ,you may want to look at the LCD thread where a new buyer has gone and bought one on impulse and has come to the same conclusion as most savvy buyers,and he also noticed the contrast ratio listed,although some idiot said it was now unimportant---I wonder WHO THAT WAS”

I have a nasty feeling that the men in white coats are imminent. Not before time. Contrast ratios are advertising BS as you should know.

BTW, where was it that you watched an upscaling DVD through an LCD - and which upscaler was it and which DVD. I get around much of the country so I'm interested to look them up.
Technophile
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by 2Bdecided:
“Is there an LCD TV which gives a better picture than a good CRT?

Can I find one in my local Sony Centre, or even my local Currys (gulp)?

I ask because I'm keen to see such a beast, if it exists.

Cheers,
David.”

Have a look at the V2000 at the local Sony centre. It'll probably be fed through a PC HD signal, but it might be on a shared aerial. The HD will look superb, but the shared SD signal will look terrible. Also it'll be adjusted to "vivid" colour which is not good.

However. when you actually buy one and set it up to your liking through a decent aerial it'll blow you away. The new Toshiba is also good, and the Samsung R74.
Last edited by Technophile : 29-08-2006 at 20:33
mongosito
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by Technophile:
“I have a nasty feeling that the men in white coats are imminent. Not before time. Contrast ratios are advertising BS as you should know.

BTW, where was it that you watched an upscaling DVD through an LCD - and which upscaler was it and which DVD. I get around much of the country so I'm interested to look them up.”

I saw upscaled dvd in branches of Sevenoaks Sound and Vision and Richer Sounds.
I was not impressed enough with the picture to bother asking for all the details.
All I know was that the dvd player was over a grand.
Denon IIRC.
TommyW
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by mongosito:
“I saw upscaled dvd in branches of Sevenoaks Sound and Vision and Richer Sounds.
I was not impressed enough with the picture to bother asking for all the details.
All I know was that the dvd player was over a grand.
Denon IIRC.”

The DVD player at Sevenoaks was probably the Denon 3930. A cracking player.

Doubt if all the players Richer Sounds hold in stock add up to £1k.
mongosito
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by TommyW:
“The DVD player at Sevenoaks was probably the Denon 3930. A cracking player.

Doubt if all the players Richer Sounds hold in stock add up to £1k. ”

Judging from the quality of the upscaled picture,the extra cash for the Denon appears to pay for the build quality and superior components.
I can't remember what player it was,but I recently saw some el cheapo nasty far eastern jobbie under £100 also had upscaling----be interesting to compare it with the Denon.
Actually RS are quite good for some things.
In the MK branch they have a series of plasma and LCD sets on display each clearly labelled as displaying from different inputs :composite,RGB,component,HDMI etc
Last edited by mongosito : 29-08-2006 at 21:58
TommyW
29-08-2006
Originally Posted by mongosito:
“I can't remember what player it was,but I recently saw some el cheapo nasty far eastern jobbie under £100 also had upscaling----be interesting to compare it with the Denon.”

No comparison what so ever. The Denon is far more superior.

I have a Denon 2910 in the bedroom and have done a side-by-side comparison with my sons Pioneer 696. No guesses to which came out on top.
Technophile
30-08-2006
TommyW, maybe you could explain to me the benefit of an upscaling DVD. I've got the Sony 910 connected via HDMI and I've compared the upscaled output from this with my old Sony 535 connected via scart and I can see no difference. It occurs to me that the TV obviously has to upscale the picture to display it and that the upscaling DVD is just doing exactly what the TV does. Am I correct or is it more complicated than this?
Basil Faulty
30-08-2006
This thread reminds me of so many discussions:

Is CD better that Vinyl?

Is digital recording better than analogue?

Is Betamax better than VHS?

Is the English Broadsword better than a Turkish Scimitar Sword (old tale from the Crusades - you know that one?)

You get the idea......
mongosito
30-08-2006
Originally Posted by Basil Faulty:
“This thread reminds me of so many discussions:

Is CD better that Vinyl?

Is digital recording better than analogue?

Is Betamax better than VHS?

Is the English Broadsword better than a Turkish Scimitar Sword (old tale from the Crusades - you know that one?)

You get the idea......”

Not quite,as CD is better than vinyl,digital recorder is better than analogue.
Bets and VHS were similar in quality.
The LCD v CRT is possibly the first time new technology has been so obviously inferior to what its replacing,as posted by some unfortunate LCD owners.
I have always been an early adopter,but not this time
webbie
30-08-2006
Yes, but is the Broadsword better than a Scimitar?
gomezz
30-08-2006
Didn't the Scimitar have a tendency to rust rather easily?
Basil Faulty
30-08-2006
Originally Posted by mongosito:
“Not quite,as CD is better than vinyl,digital recorder is better than analogue.
Bets and VHS were similar in quality.
The LCD v CRT is possibly the first time new technology has been so obviously inferior to what its replacing,as posted by some unfortunate LCD owners.
I have always been an early adopter,but not this time”

Does CD sound better than Vinyl? That would open a whole can of worms.

Also, digital recording of music is certainly more convenient, but ask any musician if something recorded in Pro Tools really sounds better than through a Neve console

Beta was technically superior to VHS
Basil Faulty
30-08-2006
Originally Posted by webbie:
“Yes, but is the Broadsword better than a Scimitar?”

The legend is that Richard demonstrated the power of the broadsword by using it to cut through a piece of iron.

Saladin then threw a piece of silk in the air, and sliced it in half with his razor sharp blade.

Richard then noticed that it said 'Philips' on the side of his sword, went home, and waited for a firmware upgrade for it.
call100
30-08-2006
Originally Posted by mongosito:
“You and Call100 are obviously from the same school of retarded thinking.
Its been shown to you on these threads that many LCD owners and CRT owners know that the pix from SD sources are not up to scratch.
Jarrak and others have even given you techi info to support these facts.
You are obviously both too thick to see it or acknowledge it,but perhaps your dodgy sight is what makes you believe the opposite of what clearly is true and has been proven to be true.
The reason I call you liars is because I have seen sets displayed from all levels of retailers and all levels of sources so I know what you are looking at.
As I said before in the last few years I have spoken to and seen many setups that the owners claim are "excellent",while seeing these setups are watching stretched 4:3 pix instead of correctly setup displays,composite instead of RGB,even analogue channels stretched to fill a 16:9 set,so I treat your opinions with equal disdain.
If I was the only one saying it you could have a point,but as there are many with the same views,even those who have LCD,the "incorrect setup" crap is simple justification for the fact you realise you have bought crap and are stuck with it.
I notice Call 100 has not repsonded to the comment I made regarding his earlier post in another thread where he said his LCD display of VHS was "excellent".
Surely that tells you something about his standards of quality.
The upscaled dvd's I recently saw were better than Sky on an LCD set,but still don't match a good dvd on a good CRT”

You still at it??
Calling people liars on a forum like this could get you into trouble.
You are obviously of advanced years, and as I was brought up to to respect senior citizens I am now finding your rantings amusing.
We are never going to agree, so it is not worth all the hassle.
You have completely missed the point, and lost the plot.
As for the VHS - compared to the crt I was watching it on it was excellent.
Now don't stay up late, you know you need your sleep.
God bless!
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