Surround sound, Dolby 5.1, active, passive?

zippy10 · 13-09-2006, 16:06

??
I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I need to set up a sound system with my 42inch HD ready plasma.
Should I get sky+ upgrade from normal digibox? or go straight to HD box? I might get multiroom.

So which home cimena package do I need to maximise the whole experience.?

I don't know what passive or active actually means so what do I need for dolby 5.1 surround sound?

Thanks in advance for any helpful replies.

Richard46 · 13-09-2006, 16:36

I do not use Sky but as I understand it you need at least Sky+ and even then only some of the movies are in true Dolby Digital 5.1. However almost any multi channel amp will give you surround sound Prologic II from a stereo TV signal be it Sky or Freeview.

Without some indication of your budget it is difficult for anyone to say what you can do to maximise the experience. You can get Home Cinema outfits for as little as £70 which might be better than your TVs sound. Some people spend thousands and thousands of £.

An active speaker is one that has its own built in amplifer; like a computer speaker. You tend to get these on cheaper surround sound systems*. Passive speakers are usually better quality and must be powered by a separate Amplifier. On Home Cinema Systems with passive speakers the amp is often built into a box also containing a DVD player.
Basically you need either powered (active) speakers or a separate amp somewhere in the system.

More expensive amplifers are usually just that an amplifer with numerous input options. Good makes are Yamaha; Denon; Pioneer.

*The exception to this is sub-woofers. These are often active; i.e. have there own amplifers even on quality stuff. Amps usually have a low power; signal only output to feed powered sub-woofers. (Its the .1 bit of 5.1).

Richard

13-09-2006, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard46

I do not use Sky but as I understand it you need at least Sky+ and even then only some of the movies are in true Dolby Digital 5.1. However almost any multi channel amp will give you surround sound Prologic II from a stereo TV signal be it Sky or Freeview.

Richard is correct, you need Sky+/Sky+ HD to get 5.1 from movies/some sport/disney. The majority of movies now do appear to be in 5.1.

Only you can decide on the Sky upgrade. You have a HD ready TV so Sky HD will give you HD images. Only you can decide wherther it would be good value for money. If you watch movies, sport (football/cricket/golf) US series (Sky One) Wildlife and docs order now.

You would need HD Box £300, install £60, Full package (saving £10 Sky+ subs) £46 + £10 HD sub.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard46

An active speaker is one that has its own built in amplifer; like a computer speaker. You tend to get these on cheaper surround sound systems*. Passive speakers are usually better quality and must be powered by a separate Amplifier.

Sorry Richard but I have to slightly disagree here. Only on a personal note.

Yes, PC speaker systems are usually active, can be cheap and nasty, but their application is basically designed for PC use. The low budget speaker systems that are normally associated with home cinema are usually passive satellite speakers.

Now studio monitors/actives that are associated with a full blown home cinema system are another story. These partnered with a top quality processor really do put passives in there place. Their design (active crossovers, bi-amplification, all components match etc) is their advantage, bass is also much tighter. As for price, they are not cheap, starting price for a decent monitor I would say is around £200 each, rising to £2k+ each. But you do have to take into account you do get an amp included, and usually a good quality one. Take the PMC AML1's, these have on board Bryston amps, sheer class.

Actives are becoming very popular for home cinema. They are detailed and dynamic. The only downside is they are not a very forgiving speaker, you feed it poor material you get poor reproduction, it will pick up everything.

I have been running actives for many years and wouldn't go back to passives. I have had some very expensive passives in the past, none have come close to the actives I have owned.

http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/index2.html

Last edited by TommyW : 13-09-2006 at 18:55.

Richard46 · 13-09-2006, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyW

Sorry Richard but I have to slightly disagree here. Only on a personal note.

Yes, PC speaker systems are usually active, can be cheap and nasty, but their application is basically designed for PC use. The low budget speaker systems that are normally associated with home cinema are usually passive satellite speakers.

No need to apologise Tommy; you are quite right.

I was really just trying to warn the OP off systems like this;

http://www.3wisemonkeys.co.uk/prodde...id=1298&cat=54

which while really being PC speakers are advertised as suitable for TV.

Richard

RayGreen · 14-09-2006, 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard46

No need to apologise Tommy; you are quite right.

I was really just trying to warn the OP off systems like this;

http://www.3wisemonkeys.co.uk/prodde...id=1298&cat=54

which while really being PC speakers are advertised as suitable for TV.

Richard

I dont see an optical digital input on the above system! It was my understanding the you would need this to pick up DD 5.1 from Sky +/HD, but im ready to be corrected.

I purchased this low power system from Argos. Im very pleased with it, it fills the room with sound without sharing the noise with the rest of the street. It also has the digital input.

The remote is a bit naff!

and you need to buy the optical link

Last edited by RayGreen : 14-09-2006 at 06:22.

Richard46 · 14-09-2006, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayGreen

I dont see an optical digital input on the above system! It was my understanding the you would need this to pick up DD 5.1 from Sky +/HD, but im ready to be corrected.

I was not recommending that system; did you read my post?

.

Richard

RayGreen · 14-09-2006, 08:09

Hi Richard,

Yes, I was suggesting that the optical link is a good idea, if you want DD 5.1 out of your Sky box. But happy to be corrected

Regards

Ray

Richard46 · 14-09-2006, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayGreen

Hi Richard,

Yes, I was suggesting that the optical link is a good idea, if you want DD 5.1 out of your Sky box. But happy to be corrected

Regards

Ray

Hi Ray

Cannot but think we are talking at cross purposes here.

You are correct you do most definitely need a digital optical input for true DD from Sky+ or I presume Sky HD although I have never seen one.
In fact the lack of such connections is one of the reasons I would not recommend ppl. buy these cheap Home Cinema systems if they can.

Richard

RayGreen · 14-09-2006, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard46

Hi Ray

Cannot but think we are talking at cross purposes here.

You are correct you do most definitely need a digital optical input for true DD from Sky+ or I presume Sky HD although I have never seen one.
In fact the lack of such connections is one of the reasons I would not recommend ppl. buy these cheap Home Cinema systems if they can.

Richard

Your right. We are at cross purposes. Sorry

JBlink · 14-09-2006, 20:14

Two comments:

What a polite thread! Far too often the parentage of contributors seems to be questioned when someone disagrees with a comment, so well done! (patronising git, yes I know!)

On the OP's question of which home cinema, it all depends on budget of course. All I can do is recommend the Denon 1906 amp and Kef KHT1005 speakers as an entry level separates system. Active (powered) sub and great sound from DD and PL2 sources such as Sky+ and DVD for £600.

Richard46 · 14-09-2006, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayGreen

Your right. We are at cross purposes. Sorry

Thanks Ray you are a gentleman

Back to the OPs enquiry. Can I suggest that if budget allows a system built around a separate AV Amp is advisable in the long term. There are frequent posts on here from ppl who already have Home Cinema Systems and are coming up against the problem of limited connectivity.
I would recomend a visit to a local Richer Sounds* for both advice and good prices on quality separates.
They often have great deals on discontinued or exdemo amps and speakers.
*I am just a satisfied customer, no other links with them.

Richard

exNTHell · 28-12-2006, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard46

The exception to this is sub-woofers. These are often active; i.e. have there own amplifers even on quality stuff. Amps usually have a low power; signal only output to feed powered sub-woofers. (Its the .1 bit of 5.1).

Richard

I have just bought a separate amplifier and DVD recorder to replace my old all-in-one system. All of my old passive speakers connect to the amp okay, except the subwoofer. How do I connect my passive subwoofer speaker cable to an RCA Phono input. Is there a way that I can transform my passive subwoofer into an active one? Any help would be gratefully received.

Richard46 · 28-12-2006, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by exNTHell

I have just bought a separate amplifier and DVD recorder to replace my old all-in-one system. All of my old passive speakers connect to the amp okay, except the subwoofer. How do I connect my passive subwoofer speaker cable to an RCA Phono input. Is there a way that I can transform my passive subwoofer into an active one? Any help would be gratefully received.

Hi
If your new amp has unamplified line out subwoofer output then it will not drive a passive subwoofer; you need an actual amplifier somewhere.
Your amps manual should tell you what kind of subwoofer would be suitable I would have thought.
If you need a powered subwoofer I think most of these have their own amp;

http://www.richersounds.com/productl...1055729eee56d5

The other option would be to find the setting on your amp for running with just five speakers and not use a sub. I am sure it will have such a setting. The bass will then be redirected to the main speakers.
How effective this is will depend on how good your main speakers are of course.

Richard

exNTHell · 28-12-2006, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard46

Hi
If your new amp has unamplified line out subwoofer output then it will not drive a passive subwoofer; you need an actual amplifier somewhere.
Your amps manual should tell you what kind of subwoofer would be suitable I would have thought.
If you need a powered subwoofer I think most of these have their own amp;

http://www.richersounds.com/productl...1055729eee56d5

The other option would be to find the setting on your amp for running with just five speakers and not use a sub. I am sure it will have such a setting. The bass will then be redirected to the main speakers.
How effective this is will depend on how good your main speakers are of course.

Richard

Thanks for the info, looks like another trip across town tomorrow to Richer Sounds. Anyone know if the Gale products are good, ie is it just bog standard bass or do you get a rumbling effect that you can feel.

13-09-2006, 16:06	#1
zippy10 Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kissimmee, Florida Posts: 207	Surround sound, Dolby 5.1, active, passive? ?? I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I need to set up a sound system with my 42inch HD ready plasma. Should I get sky+ upgrade from normal digibox? or go straight to HD box? I might get multiroom. So which home cimena package do I need to maximise the whole experience.? I don't know what passive or active actually means so what do I need for dolby 5.1 surround sound? Thanks in advance for any helpful replies.

13-09-2006, 16:36	#2
Richard46 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: London Posts: 41,718	I do not use Sky but as I understand it you need at least Sky+ and even then only some of the movies are in true Dolby Digital 5.1. However almost any multi channel amp will give you surround sound Prologic II from a stereo TV signal be it Sky or Freeview. Without some indication of your budget it is difficult for anyone to say what you can do to maximise the experience. You can get Home Cinema outfits for as little as £70 which might be better than your TVs sound. Some people spend thousands and thousands of £. An active speaker is one that has its own built in amplifer; like a computer speaker. You tend to get these on cheaper surround sound systems. Passive speakers are usually better quality and must be powered by a separate Amplifier. On Home Cinema Systems with passive speakers the amp is often built into a box also containing a DVD player. Basically you need either powered (active) speakers or a separate amp somewhere in the system. More expensive amplifers are usually just that an amplifer with numerous input options. Good makes are Yamaha; Denon; Pioneer. The exception to this is sub-woofers. These are often active; i.e. have there own amplifers even on quality stuff. Amps usually have a low power; signal only output to feed powered sub-woofers. (Its the .1 bit of 5.1). Richard Last edited by Richard46 : 13-09-2006 at 16:37.

13-09-2006, 18:47	#3
TommyW Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally Posted by Richard46 I do not use Sky but as I understand it you need at least Sky+ and even then only some of the movies are in true Dolby Digital 5.1. However almost any multi channel amp will give you surround sound Prologic II from a stereo TV signal be it Sky or Freeview. Richard is correct, you need Sky+/Sky+ HD to get 5.1 from movies/some sport/disney. The majority of movies now do appear to be in 5.1. Only you can decide on the Sky upgrade. You have a HD ready TV so Sky HD will give you HD images. Only you can decide wherther it would be good value for money. If you watch movies, sport (football/cricket/golf) US series (Sky One) Wildlife and docs order now. You would need HD Box £300, install £60, Full package (saving £10 Sky+ subs) £46 + £10 HD sub. Quote: Originally Posted by Richard46 An active speaker is one that has its own built in amplifer; like a computer speaker. You tend to get these on cheaper surround sound systems. Passive speakers are usually better quality and must be powered by a separate Amplifier. Sorry Richard but I have to slightly disagree here. Only on a personal note. Yes, PC speaker systems are usually active, can be cheap and nasty, but their application is basically designed for PC use. The low budget speaker systems that are normally associated with home cinema are usually passive satellite speakers. Now studio monitors/actives that are associated with a full blown home cinema system are another story. These partnered with a top quality processor really do put passives in there place. Their design (active crossovers, bi-amplification, all components match etc) is their advantage, bass is also much tighter. As for price, they are not cheap, starting price for a decent monitor I would say is around £200 each, rising to £2k+ each. But you do have to take into account you do get an amp included, and usually a good quality one. Take the PMC AML1's, these have on board Bryston amps, sheer class. Actives are becoming very popular for home cinema. They are detailed and dynamic. The only downside is they are not a very forgiving speaker, you feed it poor material you get poor reproduction, it will pick up everything. I have been running actives for many years and wouldn't go back to passives. I have had some very expensive passives in the past, none have come close to the actives I have owned. http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/index2.html Last edited by TommyW : 13-09-2006 at 18:55.*

13-09-2006, 21:08	#4
Richard46 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: London Posts: 41,718	Quote: Originally Posted by TommyW Sorry Richard but I have to slightly disagree here. Only on a personal note. Yes, PC speaker systems are usually active, can be cheap and nasty, but their application is basically designed for PC use. The low budget speaker systems that are normally associated with home cinema are usually passive satellite speakers. No need to apologise Tommy; you are quite right. I was really just trying to warn the OP off systems like this; http://www.3wisemonkeys.co.uk/prodde...id=1298&cat=54 which while really being PC speakers are advertised as suitable for TV. Richard

14-09-2006, 06:19	#5
RayGreen Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Merseyside/Wirral Posts: 216	Quote: Originally Posted by Richard46 No need to apologise Tommy; you are quite right. I was really just trying to warn the OP off systems like this; http://www.3wisemonkeys.co.uk/prodde...id=1298&cat=54 which while really being PC speakers are advertised as suitable for TV. Richard I dont see an optical digital input on the above system! It was my understanding the you would need this to pick up DD 5.1 from Sky +/HD, but im ready to be corrected. I purchased this low power system from Argos. Im very pleased with it, it fills the room with sound without sharing the noise with the rest of the street. It also has the digital input. The remote is a bit naff! and you need to buy the optical link Last edited by RayGreen : 14-09-2006 at 06:22.

14-09-2006, 08:00	#6
Richard46 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: London Posts: 41,718	Quote: Originally Posted by RayGreen I dont see an optical digital input on the above system! It was my understanding the you would need this to pick up DD 5.1 from Sky +/HD, but im ready to be corrected. I was not recommending that system; did you read my post? . Richard

14-09-2006, 08:09	#7
RayGreen Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Merseyside/Wirral Posts: 216	Hi Richard, Yes, I was suggesting that the optical link is a good idea, if you want DD 5.1 out of your Sky box. But happy to be corrected Regards Ray

14-09-2006, 18:02	#8
Richard46 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: London Posts: 41,718	Quote: Originally Posted by RayGreen Hi Richard, Yes, I was suggesting that the optical link is a good idea, if you want DD 5.1 out of your Sky box. But happy to be corrected Regards Ray Hi Ray Cannot but think we are talking at cross purposes here. You are correct you do most definitely need a digital optical input for true DD from Sky+ or I presume Sky HD although I have never seen one. In fact the lack of such connections is one of the reasons I would not recommend ppl. buy these cheap Home Cinema systems if they can. Richard

14-09-2006, 19:11	#9
RayGreen Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Merseyside/Wirral Posts: 216	Quote: Originally Posted by Richard46 Hi Ray Cannot but think we are talking at cross purposes here. You are correct you do most definitely need a digital optical input for true DD from Sky+ or I presume Sky HD although I have never seen one. In fact the lack of such connections is one of the reasons I would not recommend ppl. buy these cheap Home Cinema systems if they can. Richard Your right. We are at cross purposes. Sorry

14-09-2006, 20:14	#10
JBlink Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 2,926	Two comments: What a polite thread! Far too often the parentage of contributors seems to be questioned when someone disagrees with a comment, so well done! (patronising git, yes I know!) On the OP's question of which home cinema, it all depends on budget of course. All I can do is recommend the Denon 1906 amp and Kef KHT1005 speakers as an entry level separates system. Active (powered) sub and great sound from DD and PL2 sources such as Sky+ and DVD for £600.

14-09-2006, 23:29	#11
Richard46 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: London Posts: 41,718	Quote: Originally Posted by RayGreen Your right. We are at cross purposes. Sorry Thanks Ray you are a gentleman Back to the OPs enquiry. Can I suggest that if budget allows a system built around a separate AV Amp is advisable in the long term. There are frequent posts on here from ppl who already have Home Cinema Systems and are coming up against the problem of limited connectivity. I would recomend a visit to a local Richer Sounds* for both advice and good prices on quality separates. They often have great deals on discontinued or exdemo amps and speakers. *I am just a satisfied customer, no other links with them. Richard

28-12-2006, 18:23	#12
exNTHell Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South East London Posts: 170	Quote: Originally Posted by Richard46 The exception to this is sub-woofers. These are often active; i.e. have there own amplifers even on quality stuff. Amps usually have a low power; signal only output to feed powered sub-woofers. (Its the .1 bit of 5.1). Richard I have just bought a separate amplifier and DVD recorder to replace my old all-in-one system. All of my old passive speakers connect to the amp okay, except the subwoofer. How do I connect my passive subwoofer speaker cable to an RCA Phono input. Is there a way that I can transform my passive subwoofer into an active one? Any help would be gratefully received.

28-12-2006, 21:45	#13
Richard46 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: London Posts: 41,718	Quote: Originally Posted by exNTHell I have just bought a separate amplifier and DVD recorder to replace my old all-in-one system. All of my old passive speakers connect to the amp okay, except the subwoofer. How do I connect my passive subwoofer speaker cable to an RCA Phono input. Is there a way that I can transform my passive subwoofer into an active one? Any help would be gratefully received. Hi If your new amp has unamplified line out subwoofer output then it will not drive a passive subwoofer; you need an actual amplifier somewhere. Your amps manual should tell you what kind of subwoofer would be suitable I would have thought. If you need a powered subwoofer I think most of these have their own amp; http://www.richersounds.com/productl...1055729eee56d5 The other option would be to find the setting on your amp for running with just five speakers and not use a sub. I am sure it will have such a setting. The bass will then be redirected to the main speakers. How effective this is will depend on how good your main speakers are of course. Richard

28-12-2006, 22:24	#14
exNTHell Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South East London Posts: 170	Quote: Originally Posted by Richard46 Hi If your new amp has unamplified line out subwoofer output then it will not drive a passive subwoofer; you need an actual amplifier somewhere. Your amps manual should tell you what kind of subwoofer would be suitable I would have thought. If you need a powered subwoofer I think most of these have their own amp; http://www.richersounds.com/productl...1055729eee56d5 The other option would be to find the setting on your amp for running with just five speakers and not use a sub. I am sure it will have such a setting. The bass will then be redirected to the main speakers. How effective this is will depend on how good your main speakers are of course. Richard Thanks for the info, looks like another trip across town tomorrow to Richer Sounds. Anyone know if the Gale products are good, ie is it just bog standard bass or do you get a rumbling effect that you can feel.

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Surround sound, Dolby 5.1, active, passive?