I have had Humax 9200T for 10 months which has got better with time as Humax has further released software updates adding extra features and correcting some issues.

My Humax has a minor fault which means i am able to exchange it or get a refund.

Because of this, i thought, a chance to purchase a different machine wondering if there was a better PVR on the market. From what i can gather the topfield and humax are on the best PVRs on the market (would like a media PC but too expensive so out of the equation).

Wanting to find out more about the topfield, i have read some of the threads on this forum.

To help me decide which to buy (hummy or topfield) i need advice from people who have had or have both PVRs so that i can make the correct purchase.

What i like about the humax:

*Excellent Picture quality

*Easy-ish for my wife to use when i am not in (although i tend to program timers for her).

*Decent fast forward speeds (although a 32x speed would be ideal)

*Love Chase Play

*Auto padding (there were problems with this but i think it has been corrected with the recent available software 1.00.08 although i have not tested this myself)

*My USB transfers have been a 99% success getting transfer of 1GB every 12 to 14 minutes approx.

*Like the interface

*Like how i can press stop and what i am currently recording is displayed

*Like the display play bar when you press play which
you can fast forward by pressing right etc...

*Like how you can instantly record and by pressing record again you can extend recording time

*Like cheaper price compared to toppy

*like get 100hrs of recording from 160GB (believe on toppy you get less)

*2 year G/tee

What i dont like on Humax:

*7 day EPG times (ie if going away for 14 days etc...)

*Slow USB transfer speed.



I really like the idea of Taps but have never used anything like this- is it alot of messing around?
Is there much more to gain from Taps compared to what the Humax can already do?
I dont like the fact that Taps takes up even more hard drive space and slows the PVR down - ( going off what i have read?)
Dont like the idea of the heat which the Toppy produces? (the Hummy is cool with its built in fan.)

Humax is currently about £190.00
Topfield 160 GB version = £240.00
Fancy the 250GB version but at £300.00 it is expensive.

Your help would be very much appreciated.


PS One last thing, i read in a very very well known video type magazine that the Topfield is a fantastic machine but is let down by the picture quality?

Yet in another magazine they gave it top marks= 5 stars as they did with the Humax
Last edited by manuel : 15-09-2006 at 00:17

Even as a Topfield enthusiast I am at a loss at what minor faults with the Humax you think justifies you sending the Humax back. Your two objections to the Humax apply equally to the Topfield AFAIK.
The application of TAPs increases the functions of the Topfield beyond that of the Humax but Humax never claimed such features so that would not seem to justify you returning it.

Richard

To be honest if you are not using taps there probably isn't a lot to choose between the Topfield and the Humax. If you don't use taps however you will be missing out on the chance of some great functionality, so on that basis I prefer the Topfield.

The Humax UI is probably a little better than the standard Topfield one in a couple of area's. In particular I don't find the Topfield timer list that easy to use. I personally find the 20 timer limit a bit of a pain on the Humax but you don't mention it so presumably you don't.

I think most of your list of Humax likes and dislikes also apply to the Topfield, so I don't think you would find much difference there. To address some of your specific points.


The both record the raw bitstream so with 160 GB on both you'll record exactly the same amount.


Since you can transfer recordings using usb you won't have any trouble installing taps either. As to how much "messing around" is involved it depends very much on the tap(s). Many are very easy to use, some are more complex.


With taps the Topfield capabilities are well beyond what the Humax can manage.


Disk space isn't an issue - you have 160GB and even complex taps seldom exceed a few hundred KB. Installing taps make startup marginally slower, but we're talking seconds. In normal operation a well written tap doesn't slow anything down.


Yes the Toppy gets warm, but not so much it's a problem. I wouldn't worry about it.


I don't know their particular test setup but I've certainly never noticed any great difference in picture quality between the two machines.

Intermitent Faulty clock which causes failed recordings.

Thanks for the reply DX30 -very informative.



Could you give any examples?



The picture quality would be high on my list of priorities.

I have both machines and before using TAPS I prefered the Humax, mainly because of the poor EPG display on the vanilla Topfield. However installing the MyStuff TAP has transformed the Topfield and it is now the PVR of choice. The Humax is now relegated to being the backup machine, only used on the rare times where there are more than two programs to be recorded at the same time.

For me one of the best things is MyStuff is the ability to set control timers which automatically search the new EPG data for full or partial program title matches and schedule them to record. This overcomes to, a large degree, the seven day limit on Freeview EPG data and provides an equivalent to series link.

The EPG display in MyStuff is far easier to use than the Humax. No more cumbersome having to select the green button then the day to jump forward in 24 hours. Also more channels are displayed at the same time.

The ability to create folders is also useful, making the management of recorded programs easier.

Being able to delete recorded programs directly from the playlist is also another plus point for the Topfield. The convoluted menu process for deleting programs on the Humax now drives me crazy.

I have not noticed any difference in the picture quality between the two machines.

My vote goes to the Toppy with MyStuff as well - set up correctly it even gets round the problem of a 7-day epg (by setting up control timers whch are almost like series links, but not quite).

As for heat - not an issue with mine. Yes, it gets warm, it's an electronic device with a power supply and hard drive, But I would not say that it is hot.

What is a useful tap is a very personal thing and you should take a look at http://www.toppy.org.uk/downloads/taps.php?tc=all to see what might be useful to you, but here are some examples.

One of the first I installed was UK Timers, which avoids the poor timer UI I mentioned earlier. Another of my favourites is UK/Oz Surfer, a greatly improved PiP experience.

You might not like the look of the standard EPG but you can easily change it. MyStuff, EPG Navigator and Jag's are some of the most popular but there are dozens.

If you want to automatically search the EPG and record programmes by keyword, useful for series which have irregular times or channels. This functionality is built into some of the EPG taps (e.g. MyStuff, Jag's), or available stand alone in other taps like UK Auto Scheduler.

If you want to play MP3's there are players like MP3 Jukebox that improve the UI and features.

You can load game taps such as Chess or Sudoku, as well as more arcade style games such as Snake.

You can, with the aid of an external router, connect the Toppy to the network. This opens up more possibilities.

You can choose an alternative source of EPG data, the Radio Times website being popular as it gives a 14 day EPG with detailed film and programme reviews. The EPG data can replace the Freeview EPG data and be used both by the Topfield firmware and any taps you install.

You can set record timers remotely using an internet browser or a mobile phone.

The main thing about taps is they open up the machine. If there is something you personally don't like about the Topfield UI, or some additional feature you think would be useful, there is the possibility to do something about it. You aren't at the mercy of the manufacturer providing an update.

I have both machines and I would echo the comments here, namely that the Toppy definitely provides more functionality.

However, a couple of things that may annoy you if you move from the humax to the toppy are:

Toppy does not record in standby, i.e. it switches on to record.
The front display is only seven segment led, which severely limits what it can display nicely.

Although taps can address these 2 issues slightly they cannot overcome them completely.

For me, the big advantage of the Toppy is the order of magnitude increase in functionality provided by the ability to set timers automatically from keywords.

This means that you can go away on holiday for any number of weeks and come back to find all the programmes you want recorded, irrespective of what time they were on. Because of this, the fact that the progamme guide is only eight days, rather than the 14 of some other machines (not Humax) is irrelevant.

In order to do this you have to be prepared to load a tap but you only need to connect up your computer once and it's a painless operation.

Hope this helps some people to make up their mind.

This is indeed the reason I went for a Toppy, but didn't I read quite some time ago that a "future" Humax firmware was going to do a keyword automatic record ? I take it that hasn't materialised ?

Yes you must have been following this thread: http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...d.php?t=401690 They went for series record in the end. Although Freeview have decided they cant progress with it very quickly because of a delicate situation they have got currently with the broadcasters. Maybe they should just do automatic record by keyword anyway and get back to series record when its time. Especially as it could be next year.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Originally when i first started this thread, i felt i was going through the motions as i believed that i would stick with the Humax, as i am very fond of it and because of price.

Now having received some very helpfull informative replies, i am slowly edging towards the topfield because of the added benefits of being able to delete recordings easily, folders and taps.

I have very quickly skipped through the available taps (there's so many?) and I like the sound of mystuff series type record link, the improved PIP program Uk/oz surfer and Quickjump- add skipping.

Like the sound of the radio times EPG for reviews as the one the Humax uses sometimes is scarce on info especially info on films.



Could somebody give info on the following please:

1: When you fast forward is it true that you cannot visually see the video picture - do you just have a blank screen?

2: If this is so, is there a tap available so that you can see the picture when fast forwarding? (as wife not keen on this)

3: Does the topfield have chase play as featured with the Humax?

4: Why do reviews state that the topfield only has 88 hrs recording time yet the Humax has 100 hrs?

5: How long does it take to transfer a 1GB recording from the Topfield to the PC via the USB?

6: can you transfer recording back onto the topfield From the PC via the USB?

7: Are the recorded files same type as the Humax? ie .ts files

8: Does the sound on the topfield via optical/spdif sounds equally as good as the Humax? (as i will have it connected to my hifi / surround sound system)

9: Does anywhere offer 2 year g/tee on the topfield?

10: is there an "i" button on the remote that will give you instant info on the channel you are watching?

11: When the Humax is recording , if you press the stop button a info box appears with what is currently being recorded with the option to stop any of the recordings. Is there something similar with the Topfield?

12: Is there a tap that shows the topfield as a hard drive when connected to the PC (ie so that recordings can be transferred quickly) or is this not possible to do?

Replies would be much appreciated. Thanks
Last edited by manuel : 16-09-2006 at 23:09

1: When you fast forward is it true that you cannot visually see the video picture - do you just have a blank screen?
At speeds of x2, x4, x6 you see the picture.
when moving faster..in live chase play you see thumb nails, but not on/during a recording

2: If this is so, is there a tap available so that you can see the picture when fast forwarding? (as wife not keen on this)
Don't think so.

3: Does the topfield have chase play as featured with the Humax?
Oh yes.

5: How long does it take to transfer a 1GB recording from the Topfield to the PC via the USB?
It's slow. You also said the hummy was bad.

6: can you transfer recording back onto the topfield From the PC via the USB?
Yes, after conversion,

7: Are the recorded files same type as the Humax? ie .ts files
No they are .rec and require converting to mpeg with something like projectX or videoredo

8: Does the sound on the topfield via optical/spdif sounds equally as good as the Humax? (as i will have it connected to my hifi / surround sound system)
Don't know. But the volume can't be changed with the remote. It's fixed. IIRC

9: Does anywhere offer 2 year g/tee on the topfield?
I think so, yes.

10: is there an "i" button on the remote that will give you instant info on the channel you are watching?
Yes

11: When the Humax is recording , if you press the stop button a info box appears with what is currently being recorded with the option to stop any of the recordings. Is there something similar with the Topfield?
Yes, sounds the same

12: Is there a tap that shows the topfield as a hard drive when connected to the PC (ie so that recordings can be transferred quickly) or is this not possible to do?
No. Can be transfered via FTP though


You can remove the HDD from the toppy (breaking the g/tee seal) and stick it in you PC for fast downloading.

Do you know why the files need converting? Stange?


Can .rec files be easily converted to an AVI file?
At the moment i convert the Humax .ts files with PocketDivXEncoder (0.3.60) to play on my mobile digital video player Archos AV530.
(The AV 500 plays .AVI fi les that are encoded with in MPEG-4 format. It can play such video files at a maximum
size of 720 x 576 pixels (25 frames/second). It can also play .WMV files (WMV9 SP) up to a maximum size of
352 x 288**. The AV 500 will not directly play fi les of type .mov, .mpg, or .mpeg.)
Last edited by manuel : 17-09-2006 at 00:19

In no way am I an expert. But I do transfer a lot of programmes from my Toppy to my laptop. I set up Turbo mode and a film is done in about 15-20 mins (clearly depending on length of the film). It's very easy, you don't need to convert them to watch on your PC (I use VideoLan). Even to make up DVD's is easy. I have tried DVRStudio Pro ... so easy I manage it There are others, some are free, some you pay for. I seem to recall Project X converts to many formats .. do a google search (or search toppy.org) and see what the latest formats are.

I think the recording 'TS' stands for transport stream - and think this is what the Toppy records but just uses .rec file extension. Maybe someone more knowledgable can confirm.

I think a .rec is a TS just with a header added on.

Not too sure, go and have a look on toppy.org.uk
there is plenty of info about it there. I think it's in the computer section

Yes; Topfield .rec files are simply the transport stream, prepended with a header that includes information such as the EPG data for the recording, the channel, date and time. Various PC and Mac programmes will trim this off.

USB transfers are reliable and run either at around real time, or at 3-5 times that, in turbo mode.

With regard to fast forwarding, there are some TAPs, like ImproBox, that will 'auto jump' ie skip forward, play for a couple of seconds, then skip again, until you press a key, which is another useful alternative to viewing faster than the 6x of the standard FF

Nigel.

Finally, with regard to time recorded on the disk, it'll be exactly the same for both; Humax are probably looking one the average based on the UK channel mix, and come up with 100 hours.

Topfield's flyers are the same around the world, and they probably use a figure of approx 2GB per hour, which is more common elsewhere - here it's only the major PSB channels that bother with that quality.

You'll not see any difference in disk usage between the two.

Nigel.

Thanks for the replies Nigel very helpful.



I am able to obtain / download one of these .rec files created by the Topfield so that i can doubly make sure that the .rec files can be easily converted to an AVI file so that it will be compatible to play on my mobile digital video player Archos AV530?

Maybe someone will send you one; but trust me, they can be converted easily. Users on the Toppy.org.uk forums do that sort of thing all the time.

MPEG StreamClip will do the job, as will other tools. If you're fortunate enough to be a Mac user, the Mac version of StreamClip will even let you mark in and out points while the file's still on the Toppy, then download and convert it to AVI with edits made, all in one operation.

The PC version requires you to copy the file to your hard drive first.

If you can convert a .ts file, you can convert the Topfield file. There is no difference, other than the header, which is about 3k of data on the front of the file, and which can be stripped off by Project X, MPEG StreamClip, VideoRedo and a few other programs.

Nigel.

That'll just be because of variable bit rates. You might notice on your Hummy that a 1 hour recording on BBC ONE would require more Hard Drive space than an hour of ABC1 - this is becuase one is broadcast at, on average, a lower bit-rate than the other. So the difference is which bitrate the estimate is based on. The actual amount you can record is near enough identical on both (the Hummy's partition for MP3s will reduce some space, and any TAPs on the Toppy take some (very little) space).

MPEG StreamClip is great for file transfers/conversions - since the OP uses his Hummy with computer then it must be a Windows machine, however it'll still do what's needed.

hi - i also have a humax and thinking of getting a toppy.

the main reason is the limited space on the humax for mp3 and the inablility of the machine to play mp3 while recording tv etc.


Am i correct in thinking u can play mp3 on the toppy and the machine will still rec tv programs etc ? also assume no storage limit for mp3? mine are about 30gb.


the one minor issue is the fact is fast forward seems slower on the toppy compared to the humax . could someone clarrify if u can make it faster or not ?. i think one person on forum has said u can and another has said u can't. so i am a bit confused. - only a minor issue for me though

the sound quality on the humax on mp3 is excellent, i assume the sound quality on toppy is similiar ? i have a ipod for playing music through hi fi at mo. the sound quality is ok, but not great

would appreciate comments
thanks

Its yes and no really. Standard FF is tragically slow on the Toppy max 6x. However there are numerous alternatives and personally I never use FF any more.
There is a progress bar which can move very rapidly through recording but no visual of progress.
However with progress bar up the yellow key does 30 sec (think it is 30) jumps with each press of yellow which is actually fast and does of course give you visual at each stop.
You can use number keys to punch in %. So 50 takes you to half way instantly from anywhere.
With TAPs the quick jump options are very wide. I have all the coloured keys configured for different plus and minus jumps. Personally would not go back to using FF/RW which I now feel is just a hang over from VCR technologhy having got used to alternatives.

Richard

richard, thanks for clarifying the fast forward issue - only really use it for zipping thro soaps as most of those progs are rubbish, so guess could do at a slower fast forward speed


still could do with clarifying the position on mp3 though?

cheers

There's certainly no storage limit; I can't honestly remember if I've recorded programmes while playing MP3s, but I dont' recally anyone ever saying playback stopped recordings from happening.

Nigel.

i am fairly confident u can play mp3s and rec tv at the same time - though not confident enough to go out and buy a machine until 100% sure !