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Old 20-12-2002, 23:56
wavejockglw
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Well it's been a bad year for DAB.

Just over 70,000 users in the UK now out of a population of 58 million. That after over 8 years of investment! Freeview are clearing the shelves at the rate of 30,000 a month just now!

ITN & Bloomberg threw in the towel... they both kwow DAB is the white elephant of digital technology. I suspect there is more chance of getting people to take digital images with mobile phones (allbeit a small one) than DAB becoming even remotley relevant in this decade.

Well done to Videologic for advancing the DAB concept by 0% with the lauch of their "Heathkit" wooden wireless product - the price is less but then again so is the product!

I suspect there will be a lot of head-scratching in 2003 as to where the whole DAB thing is going.... can the broadcasters really keep shovelling their hard earned cash into the abyss? I think not!
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Old 21-12-2002, 08:44
mjk79
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Originally posted by wavejockglw
I suspect there will be a lot of head-scratching in 2003 as to where the whole DAB thing is going.... can the broadcasters really keep shovelling their hard earned cash into the abyss? I think not!
Do they care though? Remember all the big groups who launch stations on DAB will get an automatic 8yr renewal of their local/regional station if it gets on DAB...
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Old 21-12-2002, 09:28
covfan
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Are there any DAB Walkmans avilable at a price I can afford.
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Old 21-12-2002, 20:23
digiwigi
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Originally posted by covfan
Are there any DAB Walkmans avilable at a price I can afford.
Well thats the $64,000 question; it depends what you can afford and how much you want it. I think there's only one pocket sized portable out at the moment, and thats £170. Personally, I'm waiting until the first half of next year when more receivers come out (like this one) http://www.dabi.co.uk/mosdab.jpg

Also, I'll need to try it out to and from places I frequent to see if the reception is all its cracked up to be. And anyway, the manufacturers are already making modifications based on early comments by customers, so chances are if you wait a few months the models will be more reliable anyway
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Old 22-12-2002, 12:07
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DAB hasnt been a runaway sucess because:

1. The price of sets untill the last year have been really expensive.

2. There are very few companies who manufacture the sets. Noteabley the Japanese manufacturers have shown little interest in the format.

3. Dubious sound quality. Mostly the radio stations / multiplex owner to blame for this. Most people probably wouldnt notice the diffrence or if they did wouldnt care its Digital after alll!

4. Coverage or rather lack of it.
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Old 18-02-2003, 10:22
briwinter
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The price, and availability of sets has been the major problem. But, more worryingly is the sound quality. Let me state here, to me it makes little difference as I have a hearing problem, but I could imagine hifi purists and those with good hearing would be less than happy at paying out vast sums of money for receivers when the service itself produces no better sound quality than clear FM stations. Also the sheer lack of coverage of DAB in listings mags is another major problem.
Further more, on listening to my local multiplexes it is abundantly clear that many of the stations are automated, and not checked at that. Smooth plays non stop music after 10 am, and the news from DNN is the same bulletin throughout the day. I am in the North East but occasionally get travel for Somerset and West of England. Someone is not checking the output of these stations.
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Old 18-02-2003, 13:29
steve_mcfc
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Originally posted by briwinter
... but I could imagine hifi purists and those with good hearing would be less than happy at paying out vast sums of money for receivers when the service itself produces no better sound quality than clear FM stations.
It's not even no better, it actually sounds worse than clear FM stations.

Also, the fact that cheap hi-fis have improved a lot in the last decade you don't need to have expensive kit to notice that DAB sounds worse than FM.

Now that Radios 1-4 are on Freeview, DAB seems set to be solely a portable and car stereo system where the audio quality is less important. It just doesn't cut it for fixed home listening.
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Old 18-02-2003, 14:47
Pete_uk
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Originally posted by steve_mcfc

Now that Radios 1-4 are on Freeview, DAB seems set to be solely a portable and car stereo system where the audio quality is less important. It just doesn't cut it for fixed home listening.

Get a radio receiving only FreeView box
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Old 18-02-2003, 16:48
Gabriel
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I really don't think we should get to bogged down in the sound quality of DAB. It is often quoted that DAB is inferior to FM. However if you compare DAB to all analogue transmssions and take that as an average then surely DAB is closer to FM sound quality than it is to MW & LW. Now this my seem very simplistic to me but surely then DAB has its merrits. Mabey for the purist a fixed installation may not provide the ultimate in reproduction but would the average Joe Public really notice a difference and if they did then surely the fact that Radio 5 (and other MW & LW stations) sounded infinitely better than it did on there analogue tuner would prove a huge bonus.

Surely the fact that so few units relativley speaking have been sold is soley down to the fact that thats all the manufacturers could produce. 70,000 units sold, 70, 000 units manufactured. From what I know PURE Digital have recently doubled production in China and in press that I have read all retailers who stocked DAB receivers sold out of them all.

Luke Johnson (restaurant owner not a techno chappy) in the Sunday Telegraph this week gives a glowing report to the Evoke1 and DAB in general, stating that everyone he has demonstrated it to wants one.
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Old 18-02-2003, 17:14
briwinter
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Gabriel you are right. Getting bogged down in techno speak over sound quality is not relevant to the average listener who just listens to the radio, washing up, cleaning, doing DIY or driving a car. I fully understand the SERIOUS radio listeners disatisfaction with the reduced bit rates on DAB. For classical music lovers, wide sound spectrum is clearly important. But, as someone pointed out somewhere else on this forum, Classic FM has actually benefited from DAB because they are not using audio compression, as they had to use on VHF FM.
I do agree that the franchise holders of the multiplexes have looked at their profit margins in deciding what stations to have, and at what bit rate, and that sadly has resulted in, for the purist, a drop in sound quality. In an ideal world, all music stations would have 192 bps and all speech stations at least 96 bps, but we have to face facts, Multiplexes have a limited capacity and there seems to be only 5 frequencies in use in the UK so we have to mak do with the best of a bad lot.
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Old 18-02-2003, 18:42
steve_mcfc
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Originally posted by Pete_uk
Get a radio receiving only FreeView box

I've already got a Nokia Free-to-View box. It's ideal for use as a stand-alone tuner because it's got an LED channel number display, a digital autio output, and sounds really good.
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Old 18-02-2003, 18:48
steve_mcfc
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Originally posted by briwinter
Classic FM has actually benefited from DAB because they are not using audio compression, as they had to use on VHF FM.

Classic FM does use audio compression on DAB. It's just not quite as high as it is on FM.

What they should do is to use DRC (dynamic range control) like Radios 3, 4 and 5, BBC7 and World Service do which allows the user to compress the dynamic range if they want to (e.g. if they're in a car) or leave it alone in a quieter environment. Classic FM gets slagged off on the alt.radio.digital newsgroup because its audio compression is too high on DAB!
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Old 18-02-2003, 20:28
Mark Smith
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DAB needs more multiplexes. Isn't it possible to have an additional national multiplex that can be shared by Digital One and the BBC? This would enable them to increase the bit-rate of their stations.

Coverage is still a problem. Many areas still do not have their local licences even advertised. Eight years on since DAB started, shouldn't most of the country by now have one or two local multiplexes, as well as the BBC national and Digital One muxes? DAB has only just arrived in my area, and that's for Digital One only. No BBC or local stations yet. BBC national will probably come later this year, but the local stations could still be a year or more away at least.

For now I'll stick to MW/FM and Freeview for my radio listening...
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Old 18-02-2003, 22:46
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Originally posted by wavejockglw
Well it's been a bad year for DAB.

Just over 70,000 users in the UK now out of a population of 58 million. That after over 8 years of investment! Freeview are clearing the shelves at the rate of 30,000 a month just now!
You may be right with your figures but if you are saying that 70,000 DAB units have been sold, then there will be more than 70,000 users, since all the members of that household will be users. Out of 58 million population, there are only 14-15 million households. Your comparison with Freeview is quite telling. I suppose people tend to watch TV in the home rather than listen to the radio. I think a lot of people listen to the radio when they are doing something else at the same time. Like driving, or maybe working, so they might not feel inclined to spend money on a secondary household entertainment unit.

I think DAB will take off when it is made available in cars. My Granddad is currently ordering a new S-Class Mercedes. This is a £65,000 car and it has everything you can think of, but it doesn't have a DAB radio. Well, make DAB an option on most cars and people will start to listen to 6music, BBC 7, etc. and they will form a habit. Then they will want to continue listening to it at home. Of course, most major radio stations are available on Freeview and Dsat anyway, so people may be happy with that arrangement.
 
Old 19-02-2003, 11:04
briwinter
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The fact that some of what is on DAB is also on DSAT and FREEVIEW in my opinion is part of DAB's problem. Why go off and pay for a DAB set if you can get what you want, at better sound quality, according to some of the contributors to this forum, via DSAT and FREEVIEW. Has anyone done a comparisom of DAB DSAT and FREEVIEW in relation to stations available.
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Old 19-02-2003, 12:57
Farmer Giles
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If you listen to DAB stations over the internet with a broadband connection and connect your computer to your HI-Fi, wil you get a good quality sound ?
Is the type of computer soundcard installed relevant to sound quality ?
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Old 19-02-2003, 13:07
Ragazza
 
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Originally posted by brendalee
If you listen to DAB stations over the internet with a broadband connection and connect your computer to your HI-Fi, wil you get a good quality sound ?
Is the type of computer soundcard installed relevant to sound quality ?
When you listen to a radio station on the Internet, you are not using DAB. Simialry, when you use a PC DAB card, you are not listening over the Internet. The PC DAB card will have an aerial, and the reception is local, and independent of any Internet connection.

 
Old 19-02-2003, 13:24
Farmer Giles
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I realise I'm not listening to true DAB radio.Let me rephrase it.If I want to listen to stations like Core,Saga,The Arrow over the internet.
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Old 19-02-2003, 13:30
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Then that's not DAB at all, and the quality is dependent on the bit rate which should show on the Windows Media screen.
 
Old 19-02-2003, 13:48
steve_mcfc
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Originally posted by Ragazza
You may be right with your figures but if you are saying that 70,000 DAB units have been sold, then there will be more than 70,000 users, since all the members of that household will be users. Out of 58 million population, there are only 14-15 million households.
There will be more than 70,000 listeners to the 70,000 DAB radios, but about 45,000,000 people listen to analogue radio so the percentage who listen to DAB is tiny.

Also there will be far more than 14-15 million households these days. There are far more people who live alone these days. At a guess I'd say there's about 25 million households.

Recent figures show that there are about 1 million households with digital TV, so if there were only 14-15 million households then that would mean that two-thirds of households already have digital TV, and I don't think it's anywhere near that figure.
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Old 19-02-2003, 14:15
blair
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Originally posted by brendalee
I realise I'm not listening to true DAB radio.
hello again little miss dynamite

... "speak to me pretty speak to me nice" ...

i have 2 DAB receivers and it definitely is my best buy!

its TERRIFIC ... so please dont be put off by the air heads in here waffling on about bit rates and compression and other forms of techno speak and babble

.... just take the plunge i know you wont be disappointed!

and as to going no where fast the retailers simply can't get enough of them

and now ford are offering as an optional extra on new cars an in car dab - cd player

its happening now and you heard it right here!

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Old 19-02-2003, 14:18
Ragazza
 
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Originally posted by steve_mcfc
Recent figures show that there are about 1 million households with digital TV...
According to DigitalSpy news this week, Sky alone have 6.5 million subscribers, that's without Freeview and cable.

Here

Edit: Looking back at your post, maybe you meant 10 million, and that sounds about right. Most people I know seem to have digital TV. We count as three subscribers, because we have three Dsat systems in our house.
 
Old 19-02-2003, 14:20
Gabriel
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I wonder how many were listening to analogue radio 5 years (or how ever long it has been) after it started broadcasting, bearing in mind that at its launch analogue radio had no real competition when it came to entertaining and informing the population. DAB has so much more competition for our attention. The Internet, games consoles, digital TV (incl. Freeview, Sky and cable), analogue TV and radio. CD, DVD not to metion all the pressures that come with living in a modern society. I think DAB has done rather well considering what is it is up against. After all we all spending time trying act cleverer than the next person with our knowledge on bit rates and compression. After all it is only radio and if you don't want it don't buy it.
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Old 19-02-2003, 15:27
Farmer Giles
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Originally posted by blair
hello again little miss dynamite

... "speak to me pretty speak to me nice" ...

i have 2 DAB receivers and it definitely is my best buy!

its TERRIFIC ... so please dont be put off by the air heads in here waffling on about bit rates and compression and other forms of techno speak and babble

.... just take the plunge i know you wont be disappointed!

and as to going no where fast the retailers simply can't get enough of them

and now ford are offering as an optional extra on new cars an in car dab - cd player

its happening now and you heard it right here!




I have a very limited selection of DAB stations where I live and no BBC on DAB , that's why I was curious about using broadband internet to receive them.
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Old 19-02-2003, 18:09
steve_mcfc
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Originally posted by brendalee
I realise I'm not listening to true DAB radio.Let me rephrase it.If I want to listen to stations like Core,Saga,The Arrow over the internet.
It depends on the type of stream the radio station is using and the bit rate of the stream.

For example, if the station is using Real Player and is using low bit rates then it will sound poor, and DAB will sound better than this.

But if you listen to Shoutcast Internet radio stations that use mp3 streams then if the bit rate is 128kbps or higher then it is likely that the audio quality will be better than DAB because DAB uses 128kbps mp2, and mp2 is not as good as mp3. But the audio quality will be affected by the source of the audio, so if for example an Internet radio station is using a poor quality audio source then DAB may still sound better.

There are literally thousands of Internet radio stations on Shoutcast and the quality is highly variable, but some of them do sound good. So really it's a case of try it to see which ones you like. If you look then you will find something to your taste because there's so many stations and some of them do sound very good. See:

http://www.shoutcast.com/

you'll need Winamp.
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