I was going to purchase the 710 but have held off untill the 860 was available. After reading these threads I am left in a quandry. To purchase the Sony 860 or not?

I have a Sony Wega digital TV + Sony surround sound system and Sony VCR. The TV obviously has a digital tuner and EPG.
What advantages would I get?

Hi,

I'm in the same situation, seems to be a lot of complaints about the 860, thought it was going to be ideal for me.

Think I might wait a couple of weeks to see what the new Pioneer 545 is like.

al

I'm on the same boat. I was looking forward to the release of this new Sony RDR-HXD860, but there is very little things positive being written about it !! :yawn:

So I am also hanging on for the new Pioneer DVR-545HX to be released, hopefully it will only be a couple of weeks :sleep:

you've got to remember these forums about the D860 are 99% filled with people who have problems or issues to vent with their machines, it doesn't give a fair reflection of the number of completly satisfied users against those with problems

Ahem - Not many moaners about the DMR75 in the Panasonic section!

DONT!!
see link below
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=429239

It's only me, do you actually own an RDRHXD860S or are you basing your answers on your RDRHXD710 ?

Well I had an 860 for only 10 days and it locked up - just like my previous 710!

Just goto the thread i linked and read for your self, there seems tobe an issue with virtualy all $ony PVR/Freeview systems from the 310,710,910 and 860's where we are all experiencing the same type of problems
and the answer to your question is no i don't own a 860 and i don't ever intend to ever own anything made by sony again.

I meant to add, that I sent it straight back. I bought the 860 hoping to overcome the lockup problem I'd had with my 710.

Seemed to be mainly the 710 and 910 in that thread couldn't find a reference to the 860

see posts 86,143,162
but it is a 710/910 thread though and i know a person at my work place who has a 860 and he's had a number of lockys and various other weird thing happen!!

I have just recently purchased an 860 (1 month)
and so far I am very happy with it. Most of the problems I have had is with me not setting it up or using it correctly and appart from 1 blip last night when I set it to record Monarchy on 4 I got 5 minutes of black screen but my daughter is unsure if she was to blame. The unit also recorded
a sky channel right after 4 so I will see how it goes.

One thing I need to ask was that last night there was meant to be an software upgrade for the box
does anyone know if the box highlights this and if not how do you check for it.

If you are going to buy an 860 then do not go to Comet or John Lewis co I got it on the web via pricerunner for £310 instead of £400.

I would point out that this box can do a lot of things your old video could not such as record to hard drive whilst watching something else on the hard drive.
Last edited by paragon : 14-11-2006 at 16:43

I thought I'd just post a reply to one or two comments and questions on this thread.

Firstly, the software upgrade was between 4th and 6th of November and was for the HXD860, 560 (and SRS500 I believe - though my memory may have failed me on this last one).

For the '860, the new software is "1.00.03 CE" and you can check this by pressing the system menu button on the remote control, choosing "setup" and then selecting "DTV settings". Choose the "manufacturer information" option and the software version is displayed. The previous version was 1.00.02 CE and my box upgraded automatically on Saturday 4th November...

As far as what this release does, the only difference I've noticed is that it has fixed the bug reported elsewhere on this forum that if you choose some of the more obscure recording quality modes (Most people normally just use HQ or SP) then even if the box showed that it was committing the recording to the HDD, it didn't appear in the list of recordings after the recording had finished.

I experienced this bug once while trying to grab a piece of the news in "ESP" recording quality mode. Since the upgrade to 1.00.03 CE, I grab in ESP, SLP and other (even more obscure) recording qualities and the files are always listed in the title list for the HDD...
Last edited by George45 : 14-11-2006 at 22:48

I do wonder if anyone on here actually owns an '860 or they're just jumping on the bandwaggon after hearing horror stories about the old 710 or 910.

I've had an '860 for a couple of months now after putting it on advanced order. I have to say that the box gets a hammering every day - I use a mixture of manual (daily repeat) recordings to grab a section of channel 4 during the morning, one in the early evening and I have a number of chained scheduled recordings in the evening.

At the same time, I use the machine here at home pointed at the Crystal Palace transmitter and also in the Midlands when I'm visiting rels and want to be able to set up spontaneous recordings that I couldn't schedule for a few weeks in advance and leave the box behind at home...

I do a lot of dubbing from HDD to DVD - I've tried 3 different disk formats (DVD-R, +R, -RW - just haven't been inspired to buy +RW's yet...), repeatedly leave the box on pause for hours at a time while I take a shower or cook a meal (or fall asleep...) and most of the rest of the time I'm simultaneously playing back a recording while a scheduled recording is taking place.

Not once, in the two months I have had the machine, has it ever, ever misbehaved. Not one lock up, stall, reset or episode of "strange" behaviour.

If anyone can pinpoint exactly under what circumstances their machine is locking up, I'd love to know so I can try and replicate the symptom.

But as I said, my box receives an absolute hammering and has done so for nearly 2 months so far... I do wonder how I managed without a PVR... and all I've had is faultless operation.
Last edited by George45 : 14-11-2006 at 23:01

Why do you say this? I've already posted before about this.

After getting sick of constant lock ups on my 2x 710's, I bought 2x 860's - hoping they'd be OK.

One week later and one of the 860 machines locked up. The other 860 also had a 'disc dirty' message - but from the HDD, not a dvd!

Naturally, they went straight back for a refund.

I've now got Sky+ and Sky HD and am very happy.

Dirty disk??? From the HDD ??? And, while I don't believe that for a second, did you try formatting the HDD from the system menu?

Your experiences sound "untrue" to me. Dirty HDD... indeed! What were you recording!!!

Sky+ boxes have been all over Watchdog this evening. One customer even reported having to have their box replaced DAILY 11 times...

I just wouldn't pay Sky 15 quid a month for the pleasure of dodgy software and a load of repeats...

I'll definitely let you know if my 860 ever locks up... I promise.

You don't know what you're missing... and freeview is exactly that - FREE.

Even Film 4 realised it could make more money with advertising than by getting a cut of the Sky subscription. Much better. And I can whizz through the adverts with my Sony box and I'm 300 quid a year better off...
Last edited by George45 : 15-11-2006 at 00:30

So, you're calling me a liar then?

Here's the picture I emailed the retailer.

Notice 'HDD' in bottom left corner. This was when trying to playback something.

Why should I have to format the drive on a six day old machine.
Last edited by simon1 : 15-11-2006 at 00:37

He says this because there are other people out there (and I am one) who have owned an 860S for a similar period of time and have not had one single "glitch" (like George45) in operation since owning it!

I've read through lots of "angry" threads on these forums before posting here and it never ceases to amaze me how many "technologically challenged" peeps there are out there who are quick to slag off a particular machine when, if truth be known, it's usually "operator error" that caused the problem in the first place... (probably)

People need to understand something about modern technology and that is that they are mostly a piece of specific function hardware being controlled internally by a computer and software. This means they are prone to error at times but nearly ALWAYS because of a software BUG. Eventually these usually get recognised or reported to the manufacturer and in time get fixed with a software update.

The other times when they go wrong, it's usually the operator who has no, what I like to term, "technological sympathy" meaning that they just keep on banging away in frustration at the remote when it doesn't do (IMMEDIATELY) what it's supposed to do instead of having patience and waiting to let the "computer" complete its functions first.... (before hitting that next button).

The only complaint I would have since owning the 860S is the dreaded "Series Recording" functionality from within the Program Guide and actually, contrary to what others have asserted in other threads, that is mostly the fault of the BROADCASTERS and NOT the machine itself!! If the collective broadcasting authorities can't get their act together in deciding on a consistent standard, how on earth are the manufacturers supposed to keep up?? In any event, since it is software functionality, its something which can be fixed in time by a box update. It's darn right irresponsible of BBC's Watchdog to infer that we'll all have to "throw out our existing machines and get new ones" if we want a box where it will work properly. That is just ignorance on their part! /rant off....

Anyway, I'm glad to see you are happy to line Rupert Murdoch's pockets even more by paying his ridiculous prices!

Where does that man come from thinking its ok to pay upwards of £50/month to watch TV???!!! Sheesh....

Ok, I'll crawl back into my box now!

I'd be a fool to continue spending money on Sony HDD/DVD recorders that don't work properly.

The cost of my new Sky+ and HD box was £219 including fitting (the cost of the 1st years subscription is heavily subsidising the true cost of the equipment). I don't mind paying £50 a month for a wealth of programming, including plenty of HD material. I don't see how that is a ridiculous price.

You obviously don't like Sky. That's fine.

Your idea that the other posters are operating their Sony machines incorrectly baffles me. How long is reasonable for a customer to wait for a response from the remote? 1 sec, 10 sec, 10 min?

People have spent between £400 - £700 each on the 710/910 models (myself included). It's hardly surprising that they're angry, particularly when Sony won't even acknowledge the problem.

They'll be even angrier after reading you're irritating "I'm alright jack" post, which suggests they're all idiots not capable of operating a dvd recorder.

This does happen. I've had it more than 10 times in 6 weeks - I think that is the recorder's default error message. It usually happens when the timer interrupts something you're doing manually on the HDD.

You said it. It's the 710/910 that had lock-up problems. And that was EPG related. So I suspect it's something strange in the program order in the BBC EPG that causes the firmware to get confused. Every time someone in the central collation service makes a mistake - certain PVRs lock up.

You've given yourself away with pointing the finger at the 710/910 to be honest. Sounds like you're truley bitter. I can understand that if you lost money, or it took time and effort to return the product to the retailer more than once. Perfectly understandable.

But if you're now putting people off the '860 on this forum just out of spite, that's a different matter. If anything you're saying about the '860 isn't true... it may come back to haunt you. There have been articles in the main stream press recently about manufacturers going after people who publish false claims regarding products and service in blogs, etc. I'd watch your tongue if I was you.

I suggest you vent your anger in some other way. You could vent it directly at Sony if you want to - just so they get how annoyed you were/are with the 710 you purchased. That's surely better than putting people off the '860 when it looks for all the world like they've solved the issues with this new model.

If the '860 is the machine someone is going to like the most, why turn them off it?

I may be a little bit biased because of a long standing loyalty to Sony, but I think their kit is grade A - and you can't say that about many other manufacturers - they're all "me too" standard designs. Personally, I don't like how other systems work. I actually like the look and feel of the '860 compared to other PVRs of similar capabilities at around the same price.

So you got burned. So you went for Sky instead. So what. But you may be cutting off your nose to spite your face because as far as my experiences go, the '860 has no problems and it appears to be getting on-going support from Sony anyway.

What an earth is the matter with you? Do you have shares in Sony?

First of all, you doubted I had a 'disc dirty error' when using the HDD. Now you trying to make out that A) I either didn't purchase an 860, or B) the 860 I bought didn't lock up.

For your information, I bought 2x 860 models. These were purchased a few weeks prior to them being released. I paid £325 each for them from electronicsonline. They were delivered Tues 12th Sep.

I too am a loyal Sony customer, but their equipment now is not what it once used to be.

No I don't have shares in Sony. And I didn't mean anything I said to sound like I'm calling you an outright liar.

If the 860s you've had misbehaved, fair enough. They may both have been faulty, you never know. I'm just saying, I haven't noticed locking up and I am a pretty heavy user. I reckon I record 4 hours a day using a mixture of manual (daily repeat recordings) and one-off recordings selected from the EPG directly. So far (2 months from the date of purchase) I haven't had a lock up.

Another reason I'm biased could be that I think the DVB receiver in the machine is the best of the lot. It's the same design as the Sony VTX800 set-top box (you can tell - the EPGs and operation are the same).

I achieve the impossible with both the VTX800 and '860 (I have both) - I have a moderate gain aerial pointed at a transmitter 70 miles away. I use a mast-head amp and an 8-way distribution amp to get the RF around the house, using bog-standard coax (not the fancy foil shielded stuff).

Without the masthead and / or distribution amp, not even an analogue TV will pull a watchable signal from the aerial - and the picture is frosty at best with the two amps in the loop.

From the distribution amp downstairs I run a cable up to a third-floor bedroom and the 860 is up there with the VTX800 and my TV. I have to say, even though the RF is going through 70 miles of rainy, warm, foggy, electromagnetically noisy air, 1 cheap "digital" aerial, 2 cheap amplifiers and about 20 metres of "standard issue" coax, the 860 decodes all channels faultlessly, even in bad weather, as does the VTX800.

I don't know of another box that has this sensitive a tuner. It even pulls in duplicate stations from another transmitter off the back of the aerial. I've tried a few PVR's at the same price (mentioning no names) and a range of set-top boxes (admittendly the VTX800 is the most expensive of its type) and in all cases, I experience worse picture and sound drop-out and in most cases fewer channels are deemed to be of suitable quality to add to the EPG. It's only the Sony kit that manages to deliver all channels faultlessly.

So you see - you have to remember that the Sony kit has given me something I didn't think I could get - decent freeview from a transmitter all the rule books say I can't receive from. And yes I know I'm not guaranteed reception from this distant receiver- but it just works. The main transmitter is the other side of the city to my house, and I don't have line of sight through the concrete boxes on the horizon.

Perhaps this more than anything else has caused me to be irrationally biased. But I'm just pleased (very) I can get all DTV channels this way when I've previously suffered with cr@p TV reception for years.

Of course not, that's just common sense but that's not the issue here...


It's ridiculous because 12 x £50/month = £600 for a year for 100's of channels of rubbish (most of which, many Sky customers never watch) and not very good films... For that price, I could either buy (almost anyway) 2 x new PVRs a year or take my wife to the cinema once a week, EVERY week for a whole year! Still think my notion is ridiculous?


Not QUITE correct.... Since I am in a block of apartments where there is an MATV system, I have the choice of either or all of the digital systems available. I have also been in the TV/RADIO/TELECOMMS/DATACOMMS industry at engineering level for over 40 years and therefore take a keen technical interest in the technology advances. I also have a basic £18 subscription (as high as I am prepared to go) so that I am more able to criticise objectively from a platform of practical experience. I have MANY technical criticisms of the Sky system as a whole but that's for another thread.

No, what I have a problem with is the man himself; Mr Murdoch. For one man to have such a grip in so many areas of the media, in my view, is very unhealthy and I will not put a penny more in that man's pocket than is absolutely necessary.


My answer to that is "as long as it takes". To give one example let's look at the "Pause Live TV" functionality shall we? (...and I see a couple of other active very busy threads about this already...). I see lots of complaints about "this doesn't work and I'm angry about it!". Well guess what? It does work 100% reliably every time it just takes a bit of "savvy" to realise what that all important statement in the Sony manual ("It may take one minute or more to resume playback of the paused programme") actually means.

This pause functionality requires a buffer of the information data stream to be built up so that you can then subsequently start the replay off again since, at that point, it will be doing two things: a) playing the buffered stream for you to watch whilst at the same time b) buffering the live stream so that it can be manipulated in this way.

Ok, I'll own up, Sony was a bit optimistic by saying "one minute or more" because it actually takes a minimum of at least 120 seconds before it will allow you control over that buffered stream again. Try it. You'll see I'm right. Works every time. This is what I mean by being "technologically sympathetic" in having the savvy to realise how things are with a given machine/software combination... but then, I guess I'm asking the impossible of substituting common sense for impatience/anger....


Trust me, they'll acknowledge it if you shout loud/aggresively enough in the right direction to the right person in the company, which is, when all else fails, usually the Chairman!


Your suggestion, not mine! Let's just get one thing straight Simon? (if that is your real name) What I say is what I say. No hidden meanings or connotations and I find it irritating when people like to twist what I say to their own meaning which I don't approve of, ok? I'll decide the meaning of what I say, no-one else.

If I put something forward for discussion, it's based on a lot of experience and put forward in as objective an opinion as I can manage based on fact. If that comes across as arrogant and aggressive then I'll apologise in advance to anyone for saying it in that way but, it won't change what I say or how I say it.

Finally, if I turn out to be wrong, I'll own up graciously to that too, no problem.

Colin