I am sorry, but am I the only one who thinks that Len's marking is also quite literally appalling? All the judges have their faults when it comes to marking, most of all, sorry for the capitals, but ARLENE'S LOVE FOR MARK, which is getting ridiculous now and quite frankly, is putting me off this programme - yes, something as little as that.
Anyway, as to Len, as I have said in another thread, Len's marking seems to be subjective rather than objective. By this I mean that he marks the dancers according to their own abilities and circumstances, ie Georgina danced a lot better than she usually does and got an 8????????? I know she did a lot better this week than previously, but overall, if you ranked the celebs in the order Len marked them to show who he considered to be the best and the worst, it would have absolutely no refelction on how the celebrities danced in comparison with each other - the fundamental basis of a competition! So objectively, Len's marking is just terrible.

Yes - I think Len overmarks. He and Bruno are trying too hard to be the nice guys.

Its an art form not maths. Its not marked technicaly because they would all end up with 3s and 4 s. There is a bit of a technique element plus a bit of an artistic impression mark combining together. A lot of artistic impression overwhelms a technical defecit - just as it does with the audience. That makes disagreements likely as a performance often works for someone but not someone else. There is no ability to drop the odd markers like in gymnastics or argue it out as academics would.

Thats said the judges are playing to stereotypes and they also have different tipping points - Craig stresses technique unless he reaches a very high point where he likes the performance and rewards that generously. Len is usually moderate on both counts and ends up with no marks to play with.

Thats not all thats going on though. I wouldn't be surprised if the judges are fixing the totals so that the right people go in the face of the public's inexplicable voting. You protect who is good and give the public a real choice at the bottom between popular people and those who are not very good. There is also a bit of avoidingthe teachers pet phenomena which leads to the public voting for someone who isn't the best to win. They have now de-established Emma as the favourite and now done the same for Louisa. That may allow either of them to come back later on and stop yet another hunky cricketer winning. i think there is some play acting going on here too - Len is playing tough, Bruno has gone Louisa, Craig has stayed Emma and Arlene has gone with the hunk. this gives them some more credibility when they come back at the end and tell us who they agree actually is the best - its a lesson from Zoe's fate. If she gets her detailed work right, I wouldn't be surprised if they are all agreed by the end - but now it would be fatal to agree this early.
Last edited by thenetworkbabe : 28-10-2006 at 20:50

I used to like Len I donit anymore and Arleene fancys Brendan so much she loves it whenhe is bad

actually as much as I dislike Arlene I don't think she ever really overmarks him, it would just be nice if she was a little less blatent about having the hots for him

The problem is that Len gave Georgina a 6 for her jive, and the foxtrot was obviously a vast improvement and that's why he gave her an 8. I like it that he tries not to be too hard on the bad celeb's but sometimes a bad dance warrants a 3 or a 4. He needs to stop trying to curry favour with the public IMO

Len is sometimes too nice. Sometimes a low mark is deserved and he will give something obviously too high.

All of this furore this evening makes me even more convinced they should replace Bruno with Paul Killick who actually does know his a**e from his elbow...... UNLIKE Bruno.

He's both controversial enough to stir things up nicely which will keep the viewers happy and more than experienced enough in the world of dance to be taken seriously.

aww but I have a bit of a soft spot for Bruno. I know he talks rubbish most of the time and is a complete prat but he's just funny with it.

I can't say i'd be sorry to see the back of Arlene though...

So have I....... a peat bog in Wester Ross !

Actually I would like to see Arlene, Craig and Bruno replaced with judges who were experienced in ballroom dancing. In my opinion the judging would be more accurate and more based on technique and ability. Does anyone agree?

Totally agree.

A lot of viewers assume that they are ballroom dancers but they are not, they never were. Quite the contrary, quite a few of the professionals are champions in specific dance. I don't know what's wrong with BBC to put someone who are not professional to judge the professional dancers and their students. The fact that BBC has put a professional ballroom dancer to do the commentary mean that they do know the importance of experience and expertise.

Not necessarily...... I think that from a choreographic perspective, Craig is usually very astute and he never frowns on a bit of "edginess" and innovation which is good.

The other 2 however are different story altogether

It's amazing, it astounding, but what a difference a week makes. Last week it was more power to the judges so that the crap daners go out, this week its the judges that are in the wrong. I suppose this just balances the universe, and probably sorts out that the total system at present is just fine!!

As Len said to Brendan it would be boring if all judges were from the same background ie all fuddy duddy old men but the experience/background gives it the variety. Fully agree that sometimes they are biased and decide their score as the celeb takes to the floor - tonight with Emma Bunton was an example. They should mark according to the performance they've just seen and comments such coincide with the score they give.

This is such an astute comment that I thought I would point it out again. You've convinced me!

LOL that is so true!
I'd take the judges decision over the public anyday.

Bit of a debarcle tonight! Methinks some serious production bigwig at the beeb will be "asking" that this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

And can someone please find Arlene a man? If Craig, Len or Bruno were to describe the hips/backside/any other part of the female contestants forms, or their own "arousal" in response to the dancing there'd be an outrage. Aside from diminishing the standard of Mark's dancing with such comments weeks after week, Arlene is in danger of becoming the equivalent of a drunken letch. She's supposed to be judging a Saturday evening dancing competition, not what you might want to buy at an Ann Summers party.

I think she has a man but he is just T I R E D! Or in desperate need of some Viagra!

I actually like Craig he is honest in gving critcism that will make them better dancers. I do dance and the thing I love is when I get good criticism or a lady says she is sorry for forgettng what to do: that means *I* have not lead properly. You may think Craig is a sod but I would love his harsh criticism as it would mean I would be a better dancer.

Len does give confidence to the dancers but without the critical comments I would not believe I would be getting better.

The Beeb have obviously set it up such that thre is a certai dynamic within the judges.

Craig: harsh (and sometimes fair)
Arlene: harsh and usually fair
Len: fair and usualy too nice.
Bruno: just too darn nice! The way he cooed over Zoe Ball and now Louisa I'm starting to think he isn't gay! He should be melting over Mark Ramprakash.

Tonight was a really wierd dynamic. Brendan was correct it was too haphazard. Normally the good judge/bad judge is OK but tonight with Craig being nice to them just threw the whole thing off and Len being very critical. I really enjoyed it actually. Dancing has serious passion. I have no idea why some blokes think it's a nacy thing to do.

Every where else in the world it's a sign of masculinity. Where else do women complain if you do not kae them do exactly what you want them to do?

As I said in another thread. I've gone to the BBC website and send an official complaint to them. I think we, viewers has the absolute right to ask for a relatively fair competition. The judges are apparently unfair and unprofessional and this can only ruin the show. Anyone want to make a complaint can go to the BBC complaint webpages and make your voice heard.

Though certain judges scoring tonight was quite erratic, the combined score for each couple on the whole IMHO was quite fair, with no couple being judges unfairly harsh or unfairly high.

There has been alot of talk about favourites with Arlene and Mark, and yes her comments were slightly over the top. However, her scoring was actually the same as two other judges (Bruno and Len), and only one point over Craig. So though she may go over the top on what she says, her scoring was actually quite consistent. Brendan said about Ray should be top, but IMHO I found that he looked really uncomftable doing it. Arlene also has a point, chemistry and sex appeal have alot to do with dancing, especially when watching it. A couple dancing with great chemistry and sexyness (remember all the fuss Olga had!), can really tranform a mediocre rountine to something magical.

Its also be mentioned that the scores of the judges should be quite similar for each couple, Why?. If that was the case, there is no point in having four judges, you would just have one. Each one is looking for specific things, every couple is not going to be an all rounder. Some couples are going to be better at technique or at acting, and thus are going to get a different score from each judge. As mentioned if the whole panel was made of Lens all dancers would be to scared of trying something differnt, or a modern interpretation as Len favours tradition, thats why we have Craig.

If you see when the judges are getting ready to state their scores, they each mark the same piece of paper with their score. So if their was some grand scheme from the judges, the surely they would check each others scores and make them the exact same score.

You have to only look at the board, there is a thread for nearly every couple proclaiming them the best. This is because different people look for different things when they like a couple, and the whole point of four judges is to represent this. If this wasnt the case wouldnt their only be one thread every week saying couple A was best and everyone would agree.

I really think alot of this out cry about the judges score is a reaction to the shock eviction of Spoony last week. But, we have to remember that was the audience, not the judges that leas to him going. Brendons routine with Claire at best was mediocre. He knows the way to get votes and press is to be outspoken and the badboy. He also knows that this season he had lost his title to James. Brendons an intelligent guy, and he just wanted to be controversial to get them extra votes and get himself in the entertainment stories in the papers (remember this is the same guy that did Love Island!).
Last edited by WLB : 29-10-2006 at 01:41

WLB, I see what you're getting at but it's a fact that the judges are biased towards certain contestants. Last year, though good, Zoe Ball was the victim of the judges very clear bias! The voting public had had enough!

as said above they are all as bad as each other and have cursed at Len's marks as much as some of the others

I agree wholeheartedly with this.
Well said!