I do love the judges. They are normally really funny, give really good and useful comments and only occasionally mark differently to their comments! But my god this series they are being so weird!!! They have their obvious favourites and don't seem to realise how important their marks are! They need to think more about what they are marking and actually make sure its fair! Hopefully on saturday it'll be better and the atmosphere surrounding the show will go! And I hope they don't hold a grudge against Brendan!
Unprofessional Judges
5 of 5
I think the judges were trying to get Georgina out. They have worked out that the dancers at the bottom of the leader board get more votes from the public than those in the middle. By giving low marks to popular dancers they ensured that the public would vote to keep them in and Georgina, who then ended up in the middle of the leader board, did not receive as many votes. That is the only thing in my mind that would account for their confusing comments and marking on Saturday night. They achieved their goal, tho!
So you think they wanted Peter and Erin to stay and Claire and Brendan? Not sure. I thought they would like Brendan off...Peter & Erin (along with Jan & Anton) weren't that good so their low score was justified - though not a 2, I have to say.
Originally Posted by Liz G-S:
“Brendan wasn't 'acting up to gatecrash the final party' as you put it 'thenetworkbabe' but was reacting to Arlene's remarks that Claire was hanging on for dear life (which he clearly didn't feel that she was and he would know) and Len's remark that they should stick to the raunch and leave the elgance to others without passing judgement on their performance at all. Judging by the reaction when they went backstage, they clearly had the backing of all their co-competitors too.
The 4 judges have no right to try to manipulate the final by choosing three favourites and overmarking them if this is what they are doing. The show is for the 6 million people who watch it every week and vote for the couple they would like to see and not just for the four judges. Maybe Emma and Louisa are the best dancers but that isn't everything in what is, after all, a pure entertainment show. I think it would be a poorer show without the likes of Brendan and Claire.
As for Arlene's remarks about LI during the results show - it was uncalled for and unprofessional and showed that, for her, this show isn't really about the dancing alone. Brendan wasn't rude - he just said what everyone was thinking and they certainly seemed to appreciate it.
It isn't a professional dance competition where people have to put up with all that is thrown at them for the sake of their career - I am pleased that Brendan spoke his mind but sorry he had to put up with the humiliating remarks afterwards. That was uncalled for and Arlene didn't do herself any favours.”
“Brendan wasn't 'acting up to gatecrash the final party' as you put it 'thenetworkbabe' but was reacting to Arlene's remarks that Claire was hanging on for dear life (which he clearly didn't feel that she was and he would know) and Len's remark that they should stick to the raunch and leave the elgance to others without passing judgement on their performance at all. Judging by the reaction when they went backstage, they clearly had the backing of all their co-competitors too.
The 4 judges have no right to try to manipulate the final by choosing three favourites and overmarking them if this is what they are doing. The show is for the 6 million people who watch it every week and vote for the couple they would like to see and not just for the four judges. Maybe Emma and Louisa are the best dancers but that isn't everything in what is, after all, a pure entertainment show. I think it would be a poorer show without the likes of Brendan and Claire.
As for Arlene's remarks about LI during the results show - it was uncalled for and unprofessional and showed that, for her, this show isn't really about the dancing alone. Brendan wasn't rude - he just said what everyone was thinking and they certainly seemed to appreciate it.
It isn't a professional dance competition where people have to put up with all that is thrown at them for the sake of their career - I am pleased that Brendan spoke his mind but sorry he had to put up with the humiliating remarks afterwards. That was uncalled for and Arlene didn't do herself any favours.”
Well said Liz
I am sure Brendan would not have said anything had there not been conversation back stage about how random the judging had been that night and good on him for having the guts to go out there and say it. The aplause from his fellow competitors when he went back stage showed how they supported what he said.
I quite enjoy the judges different perspective and am glad that they are not all ballroom dancers but look for different things within the dances. However, what I do want is for their comments to be constructive and not personal, or if they do have to be personal then for it to be put nicely - there are ways and there are ways of saying the same thing.
Not once did Brendan turn to personal insults on the judges. He was just stating a fact. However, Arlene's comment about him on LI was totally uncalled for, bitchy and downright rude. There was no way he deserved that and I for one hope she has the decency to apologies to him, and for it to be shown on tele, like he did to those he'd hurt on LI.
Let us be grateful that the final decision isnt up to the judges !!
Had Brendan and Claire been in the bottom 2 after the public vote the mood the judges were in, Len and Arlene especially, Brendan would`ve have been voted off.!
Had Brendan and Claire been in the bottom 2 after the public vote the mood the judges were in, Len and Arlene especially, Brendan would`ve have been voted off.!
Thought the judges scores were extremely bizarre on Saturday. To give Brendan and Claire such low marks yet Louisa got an 8.....
Peter's Paso was nowhere near as dire as Georgina's jive yet it scored lower.
Come on judges...sort it out!
Peter's Paso was nowhere near as dire as Georgina's jive yet it scored lower.
Come on judges...sort it out!
Originally Posted by hodman:
“Here is my two cents ...
<snipped>
What seems to be changing is our expectation of the show.
We all want it to mature in line with our growing appreciation of dancing as an art.
”
“Here is my two cents ...
<snipped>
What seems to be changing is our expectation of the show.
We all want it to mature in line with our growing appreciation of dancing as an art.
”
You've probably identified at least part of the problem. When this show started many of the non dancing fans, myself included, could have barely told a fox trot from a jive. But as the show has progressed over the years we are becoming a bit more informed as to what to expect.
Thus we have expectations of the judges we did not have in series 1 or even 2.
That said, the current situation has got out of control and the beeb does need to address it some way. It is unacceptable to have swearing on tea time Saturday evening viewing. With Bruno the week before last, I can kind of forgive it as it was clearly a mistake. But with Brendan - well I understand where he was coming from, but he shouldn't have been put in that position. And the sheer hatred that Arlene and Len showed in the results show - well - even without swearing - that is what really got me annoyed.
I can't say how many will stop watching as a result of all this - it may even be good for ratings - but if it carries on much more I'm going to lose interest. Rightly or wrongly I have come to expect that the judges give some sort of mark that is in line with technical and artistic merit - while the public vote on whatever criteria they like. When the judges regularly deviate from this, it cheapens the whole thing for me.
Nick
I know it's a different series but I just watched this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB77VwJqU30
Now those scores were 8,9,9 and 9. With that in mind did Louisa really deserve a 10 the other week? It was probably just because Bruno had overmarked Emma and had to score Louisa higher in comparison, but it does seem as if the judges are generally being more generous in this series.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB77VwJqU30
Now those scores were 8,9,9 and 9. With that in mind did Louisa really deserve a 10 the other week? It was probably just because Bruno had overmarked Emma and had to score Louisa higher in comparison, but it does seem as if the judges are generally being more generous in this series.
Originally Posted by Nausikaa:
“I know it's a different series but I just watched this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB77VwJqU30
Now those scores were 8,9,9 and 9. With that in mind did Louisa really deserve a 10 the other week? It was probably just because Bruno had overmarked Emma and had to score Louisa higher in comparison, but it does seem as if the judges are generally being more generous in this series.”
“I know it's a different series but I just watched this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB77VwJqU30
Now those scores were 8,9,9 and 9. With that in mind did Louisa really deserve a 10 the other week? It was probably just because Bruno had overmarked Emma and had to score Louisa higher in comparison, but it does seem as if the judges are generally being more generous in this series.”
I don't think it's fair to mark this crop of dancers against previous couples (heck, they're finding it hard enough marking them against each other!
).I think the biggest problem comes with the fact the way the judges boxed themselves into a corner by giving the 7's and 8's way too soon in the competition. The judges seem to have altered the way they think of the marks - so whereas before a 9 was an achievement and given sparingly a 10 was something to dream about - and given usually only in the semi or the final - now they are handed out like sweeties to the person they consider the best on the night.
This gives the couples nothing to aim at or for - I'd always thought (rightly or wrongly
) that not only were the couples marked against each other, but also against their own previous performances - and their marks went up or down accordingly, but this doesn't really seem to be the case now - if it ever was.If the best dance on the night is scored all 6's, there is no shame in that - they are still top but there is room to see the improvement reflected in the scores.
Originally Posted by JoDay:
“I also wonder how much time is spent judging the dance and how much on thinking up a "clever" phrase or soundbite. Some of the stuff Bruno says is such rubbish that I can believe it is spur of the moment (like when he used Incredible Hulk as a compliment for Ray). But when Arlene said to Matt Dawson "well, you're a scrum half but you didn't do that by half", had she really come up with it in the couple of minutes she was watching the dance? Or did she think of it on the previous Tuesday and therefore would have said it regardless of the performance?”
“I also wonder how much time is spent judging the dance and how much on thinking up a "clever" phrase or soundbite. Some of the stuff Bruno says is such rubbish that I can believe it is spur of the moment (like when he used Incredible Hulk as a compliment for Ray). But when Arlene said to Matt Dawson "well, you're a scrum half but you didn't do that by half", had she really come up with it in the couple of minutes she was watching the dance? Or did she think of it on the previous Tuesday and therefore would have said it regardless of the performance?”
I've often wondered that too, with regards to Arlene...
Just been remembering the final of series 1 where Bruno screeched into the camera......"remember thees ees a dance competition....you have to vote for who ees the best dancer.....not who you fancy"
pot, kettle, kettle, pot anyone ?
pot, kettle, kettle, pot anyone ?
Originally Posted by allyfree:
“Just been remembering the final of series 1 where Bruno screeched into the camera......"remember thees ees a dance competition....you have to vote for who ees the best dancer.....not who you fancy"
pot, kettle, kettle, pot anyone ?”
“Just been remembering the final of series 1 where Bruno screeched into the camera......"remember thees ees a dance competition....you have to vote for who ees the best dancer.....not who you fancy"
pot, kettle, kettle, pot anyone ?”
*laughs*
I'd forgotten that - that is quite funny.
Although I thought he was gay? So I guess he doesn't "fancy" Louisa as such!
Originally Posted by sarah-flute:
“*laughs*
I'd forgotten that - that is quite funny.
Although I thought he was gay? So I guess he doesn't "fancy" Louisa as such!”
“*laughs*
I'd forgotten that - that is quite funny.
Although I thought he was gay? So I guess he doesn't "fancy" Louisa as such!”
may be he fancies Vincent!!!
I agree the major problem with the judges marks is that they are being a bit too exuberant and marking too high too early on. No way did Louisa deserve that high a mark, but the judge had to make the distinction between the two dancers and there was nowhere else to go.
the judges have been bonkers thi series. They need replacing or, better still, the whole judging system needs reviewing.
the judges have been bonkers thi series. They need replacing or, better still, the whole judging system needs reviewing.
I've been thinking about the situation of the Judges...
In Series 1, I got soooo frustrated with the 3 non-Ballroom judges because they were saying completely wrong things about the dances.
Series 2.. they started to feed off what Len was saying and didn't embarrass themselves quite as much.
Series 3 I appreciated the fact they were all looking at the dancing from different angles and was impressed that Craig at least looked like he had taken the effort to study some Ballroom and understand it more. His comments were making more sense...
but Series 4... I think they've now decided that the public is going to accept that they're not Ballroom trained so they can publically state that they do not have the same technical background as Len and are looking for different things in the performance and therefore can mark whatever they want to mark no matter if the dance looks like the dance it's supposed to look like or not. I do NOT think that this is acceptable. If it's a foxtrot, it should be a foxtrot. If this was a ballet competition and a celebrity came out doing a great disco dance with no ballet technique I'm sure the judges would not mark them high because it wasn't ballet. It should be the same in this competition. Every dance is completely different and has a different technique. I thought this was what the competition was about... learning Ballroom dances and delving into the world of its technique and style. I don't think the judges can carry on marking the way they have started out this series without more riots taking place! Len I think too, this week got personal or tactical with his marks. He should stick to being 'solid' Len and not trying to fix the mess of other marks or jump into the 'personal' side of judging.
I agree thoroughly with Brendan saying last night that the judges at least need to be coming from the same basic foundation of the dance before going off and specialising on their particular comments
Last edited by PeachUK : 31-10-2006 at 09:16
In Series 1, I got soooo frustrated with the 3 non-Ballroom judges because they were saying completely wrong things about the dances.
Series 2.. they started to feed off what Len was saying and didn't embarrass themselves quite as much.
Series 3 I appreciated the fact they were all looking at the dancing from different angles and was impressed that Craig at least looked like he had taken the effort to study some Ballroom and understand it more. His comments were making more sense...
but Series 4... I think they've now decided that the public is going to accept that they're not Ballroom trained so they can publically state that they do not have the same technical background as Len and are looking for different things in the performance and therefore can mark whatever they want to mark no matter if the dance looks like the dance it's supposed to look like or not. I do NOT think that this is acceptable. If it's a foxtrot, it should be a foxtrot. If this was a ballet competition and a celebrity came out doing a great disco dance with no ballet technique I'm sure the judges would not mark them high because it wasn't ballet. It should be the same in this competition. Every dance is completely different and has a different technique. I thought this was what the competition was about... learning Ballroom dances and delving into the world of its technique and style. I don't think the judges can carry on marking the way they have started out this series without more riots taking place! Len I think too, this week got personal or tactical with his marks. He should stick to being 'solid' Len and not trying to fix the mess of other marks or jump into the 'personal' side of judging.
I agree thoroughly with Brendan saying last night that the judges at least need to be coming from the same basic foundation of the dance before going off and specialising on their particular comments
Last edited by PeachUK : 31-10-2006 at 09:16
Originally Posted by PeachUK:
“I agree thoroughly with Brendan saying last night that the judges at least need to be coming from the same basic foundation of the dance before going off and specialising on their particular comments”
“I agree thoroughly with Brendan saying last night that the judges at least need to be coming from the same basic foundation of the dance before going off and specialising on their particular comments”
I did find it quite ironic though, that the person sat on the sofa next to Craig saying all this was Brendon - who in his first dance totally flouted to Ballroom rooms to put in a lift - and the person who defended him was Craig!!
(Is a good memory a bit of a hinderance in these situations?)
Originally Posted by Tissy:
“Let us be grateful that the final decision isnt up to the judges !!
Had Brendan and Claire been in the bottom 2 after the public vote the mood the judges were in, Len and Arlene especially, Brendan would`ve have been voted off.!”
“Let us be grateful that the final decision isnt up to the judges !!
Had Brendan and Claire been in the bottom 2 after the public vote the mood the judges were in, Len and Arlene especially, Brendan would`ve have been voted off.!”
Sorry I have got to laugh at this comment, cos this time last week there were demands for wholesale alteration of the entire voting/judging procedure, with dance offs, and sundry other suggestions cos the GBP got it wrong big time.
NOW because Georgina has gone and everybody's favourite bad boy didn't have to suffer the judge's fate we are now relieved at the voting method.
It is a pity that in all the stuff and nonsense that went on on Saturday, that Georgina went out after her best performance and that Peter and Erin were truly horrendous and BASED ON SATURDAY should at least have been in the bottom two.
Originally Posted by mindyann:
“I did find it quite ironic though, that the person sat on the sofa next to Craig saying all this was Brendon - who in his first dance totally flouted to Ballroom rooms to put in a lift - and the person who defended him was Craig!!
(Is a good memory a bit of a hinderance in these situations?)”
“I did find it quite ironic though, that the person sat on the sofa next to Craig saying all this was Brendon - who in his first dance totally flouted to Ballroom rooms to put in a lift - and the person who defended him was Craig!!
(Is a good memory a bit of a hinderance in these situations?)”
Seems to me that because of the bias Craig shows, he was basically saying that he should have been able to give high marks for a lift if he felt like it (read: or if Emma & Darren did one) because of the spectacle if that's how he saw it. Its this kind of approach that's making the public grrrrr.
I agree totally with Peach..... they need to agree a basic standard for scoring a performance and I don't think Brendan is the one needing to explain himself here.
Originally Posted by mindyann:
“I did find it quite ironic though, that the person sat on the sofa next to Craig saying all this was Brendon - who in his first dance totally flouted to Ballroom rooms to put in a lift - and the person who defended him was Craig!!
(Is a good memory a bit of a hinderance in these situations?)”
“I did find it quite ironic though, that the person sat on the sofa next to Craig saying all this was Brendon - who in his first dance totally flouted to Ballroom rooms to put in a lift - and the person who defended him was Craig!!
(Is a good memory a bit of a hinderance in these situations?)”
OMG I have images now of Claires feet not touching the floor their whole routine next Saturday especially the mood Brendan is in
Originally Posted by Hamlet77:
“Sorry I have got to laugh at this comment, cos this time last week there were demands for wholesale alteration of the entire voting/judging procedure, with dance offs, and sundry other suggestions cos the GBP got it wrong big time.
NOW because Georgina has gone and everybody's favourite bad boy didn't have to suffer the judge's fate we are now relieved at the voting method.
It is a pity that in all the stuff and nonsense that went on on Saturday, that Georgina went out after her best performance and that Peter and Erin were truly horrendous and BASED ON SATURDAY should at least have been in the bottom two.”
“Sorry I have got to laugh at this comment, cos this time last week there were demands for wholesale alteration of the entire voting/judging procedure, with dance offs, and sundry other suggestions cos the GBP got it wrong big time.
NOW because Georgina has gone and everybody's favourite bad boy didn't have to suffer the judge's fate we are now relieved at the voting method.
It is a pity that in all the stuff and nonsense that went on on Saturday, that Georgina went out after her best performance and that Peter and Erin were truly horrendous and BASED ON SATURDAY should at least have been in the bottom two.”
That's the rub isn't it - is it a vote for strictly who is the worst on the night, or do you take into account the improvement over the weeks?
Perhaps a league table with points for an away success (as in, if you do well in the discipline that's not your forte) and penalty points deducted for naughtiness like lifts and regression instead of progression and then a dance off between the top 2 or 3. Divisons could be added with relegation and promotion ... I think I'm loosing it now
Originally Posted by allyfree:
“Seems to me that because of the bias Craig shows, he was basically saying that he should have been able to give high marks for a lift if he felt like it (read: or if Emma & Darren did one) because of the spectacle if that's how he saw it. Its this kind of approach that's making the public grrrrr.
I agree totally with Peach..... they need to agree a basic standard for scoring a performance and I don't think Brendan is the one needing to explain himself here.”
“Seems to me that because of the bias Craig shows, he was basically saying that he should have been able to give high marks for a lift if he felt like it (read: or if Emma & Darren did one) because of the spectacle if that's how he saw it. Its this kind of approach that's making the public grrrrr.
I agree totally with Peach..... they need to agree a basic standard for scoring a performance and I don't think Brendan is the one needing to explain himself here.”
Didn't say I didn't basically agree with him - I said I found it ironic that the most vocal was someone who had actually had that system of marking work for them, that's all.
5 of 5
