There's a danger of the voting public getting "all Emma's out."

The amount of attention she's getting and will continue to get, right up to 17th November is not really fair on the other competitors.
It was very unprofessional of the BBC to select someone from the competitors to do this video. But they will have deliberately taken this decision as it's all about the show's ratings and not the actual competition.

I understand that. Can I ask one question for whoever may know the answer? Who picks the person to sing the Children In Need song? Because if it is the BBC then its obvious. I think though having the main CIN promoter doing SCD is going to raise even more money for CIN and publicity, meaning the BBC will be estatic won't they? I just hope that what you've just said doesn't prove to be Emma's downfall, because I don't even think she wants all the attention she's getting to be honest, form what I've seen.

I agree. Whilst not my favourite dancer, Emma has been quiet, unassuming and taken criticism maturely. Tonight, she and Darren gave a mild mannered, but accurate explanation of their take on Saturday. She isn't gushing in her greatness like Zoe was. I do hope she doesn't suffer via the public vote, and I also hope Craig has listened and explains why she is so good rather than just making bland statements of 'lovely pinky fluffiness' that the couple exude.
Last edited by Kez100 : 31-10-2006 at 21:24

If you don't mind me saying, I think you're being a little naive.

She'd almost disappeared off the "pop radar."

She'll be loving all this, she'll see this as a chance to revive her singing career. I don't know what else she's got "on" at the moment, but it doesn't sound from what she's said, as being much.

"Stick Spice" must be green with envy and "Tattooed Spice" wants to get in on the act too, she's already plugged her dire re-hashed CD on SCDT2.

I'm all "Spiced out!"

I agree with what you said. They seem to be getting a lot of criticism off these boards and I don't understand why to be honest. So what she is doing a CIN song and she is promoting that, she has all the other dancers in the video with her. Give Emma and Darren a break they have done nothing wrong, they are training like everyone else, trying their best like everyone else. Yes Emma is Craig’s favourite but even Darren said he would like to think that Craig would mark the dance and not Emma. I just think all this criticism towards them is unnecessary.

Depends how dense the voters are. Zoe was the best dancer there consistently apart from once or twice when Colin was. People who were never any teacher's pet reacted to that.

Emma has a possible journey and she's not actually the judges pet when they are clearly split between 3. She can get better but will need to get her detail right. Darren I think makes life to complicated for her and leaves Emma looking less vivacious than Louisa - its his job to dramatise her and not to give her such complicated things to do that don't add much to the effect.

Its somewhat bizarre because the judges like her for the overall act which has some verve and liveliness to it which ought to entertain the public but people are moaning because she isn't getting the detail as right as people who look as if they are at some dull Darby and Joan club dance.

Its going to be a difficult job to win though - another cricketer winning by a mile would be dire and Emma and Louisa coming back would be a good ending for the series but is very difficult to pull off a comeback when the public vote is going to the worst dancers and anyone in the middle or low top of the judges order could go any week.

Louisa interestingly is in the same boat - she could get a 10 for a dance where her arms were wandering aimlessly for most of the time and also has the issue over detail and the benefit of actually looking exciting .

But thats all because professional marking isn't a one way street - in any field. The judges marks also include aspects that your don't.

If you see it as a combination you end up with the possibility of 7s and 8s even with something consistently wrong - the foot work is wrong but the overall impression is good and dynamic and there are some very good bits and something harder was attempted. Thats going to get more than something where the footwork was more right but the overall effect was dull, unimaginative and there were no real highlights. Its a complex picture - how do you measure great arms against bad footwork or compare badfootwork in one dancer to dire headwork or a silly facial expression in another?

If you start at 10 and just knock off marks for mistakes you will end up with completely different marks - and people who are anally retentive, dull and risk avoidant doing well.

Well said.

The problem for me is not that Emma is particularly bad, but there are so many other couples who are very good this year, and a lot of the comments on the night don’t really seem to reflect this. I also take issue when the comments get personal instead of constructive, whether derogatory (Arlene’s unnecessary comment to Louisa about her peaking to soon) or praising (taught buttocks) both of these comments for me were entirely inappropriate, these examples both came from Arlene but it’s not just her who does this.

I also agree with people about the over scoring that has been going on, I loved Louisa’s jive and she is definitely my favourite so far this year, but to give it a 10 was crazy. I can understand why Bruno did it as he had already given Emma a 9 and Louisa was miles better. But a 10 should only be given when a performance is truly perfect or else really special, ala Jill Halfpenny. To throw them around willy nilly, especially this early in the competition, robs all the excitement for me of seeing that perfect score.

To sum up I think it is the judges at fault, the same happened with Zoe Ball last year, of course they have different back grounds and look for different things it’s why they are there. But they are behaving in an inconsistent manner not just compared with each other but with themselves as well, and Emma is becoming the public’s scapegoat for it.

I actually think any more praise from judges over a bad rountie will put them in trouble

The problem is that few people seem to be able to see the "bigger picture."

The BBC have few "high rating" shows as has this one and they are "ratings fixated" The main priority is to beat ITV on Saturday nights over the number of weeks this competition runs. That's why more competitors were included this year and we had the silly situation where there were so many, they had to split the men from the women at the commencement of the run.

The competitors selected are of a mix that even the inclusion of some will cause a bit of controversy.

The judges? They're the ballroom dancing equivalent of the "Village People" their characters are so diverse. Including the prerequisite "baddie." Added to this they are encouraged to be volatile,

Arlene and Bruno having little "pre-prepared "critical comments" including elements of alliteration and onomatopoeia (anyone believe they're bright enough to think them up on the spur of the moment?) which they use for certain dancers whatever their performance. They are also more concerned with projecting their own personalities and promoting their own favouritism and prejudices than being honest.
Len rarely gives anyone less than five and a few quips from his dancing class patter. Craig seems the most genuine.

In the effort to milk the last drop out of the "ratings cow" the BBC have made SCDT2 more like "Top of the Pops 2" than a dancing review.

The inclusion of Ms Bunton in CIN is the last straw.
This is totally unprofessional by the BBC and extremely unfair on the rest of the competitors, but boy! will it be good for the ratings!
Anyone who doesn't think Ms Bunton who'd practically disappeared off the pop scene isn't loving every minute of it regardless of what she says to camera, have no idea how competitive is the "pop" business or is completely naive.

The Saturday night show "break" always includes a "pop singer" catering for "the wider audience" rather than giving dance fans the opportunity to see the professionals dance to a "proper" dance number played and sung by the resident band. The BBC are frightened the "uncommitted" will switch over to ITV at that point.

The occasional "dodgy" tune selected (no one owned up to chosing Eleanor Rigby last night on SCDT2 did they? and Claudia didn't mention it, did she?) is the result of the interference by the producers to attract what they perceive would be a wider audience of younger viewers regardless of what Darren said last night. You could see he was choosing his words carefully.

The "results" programme gets higher ratings than the actual show, because a considerable number of the viewers just like to see someone "fawn vorted" off!

Still it all makes for great entertainment doesn't it?

I hope I haven't burst anyone's comfy bubble.

Dog house Riley, I won't use the quotes, it would just take up to much of space.

In many ways I agree with your opinions of Emma, and the fact she is doing the CIN song this year, made me think I know why she has been overmarked by the judges, which only IMHO, she has EVERY WEEK. Can't have the official singer of CIN 2006 getting dumped or humiliated on SCD even before the single is released, now can we.

If anything BEFORE I found out she was doing the song I thought it was a bit of a coup to get her to do SCD and I was thinking that maybe even the judges were a little star struck. I mean compared to retired goalkeepers dumped as a pundit, the ex presenter of Changing Rooms and sundry soap stars current and ex, a genuine Spice Girl is a bit of a catch.

Got to say though, I am sorry but the abuse of Len has gone on long enough, yes he was very wrong to have a go at Brendan like that and I have said so many times since Saturday, but to now start to criticise his entire judging technique is a little unfair, he is the ballroom dancing expert, if he says it, it is true, maybe idiots like me would get to know otherwise if there was another ballroom expert on the judges panel, but there isn't so what he says is the truth and no argument about it. OK he was dragged into the controversy by marking Emma so high after pointing out the total failure of her foxtrot technique.... BUT we then come back to the embarrasment of an early exit for Emma and the BBC can't have that with the video for CIN still in the edit suite, and that was heightened by the shock exit of Spoony the previous week. AND it is an indicator of Len's tendency to mark higher and try to be positive about most couples. Which I have always appreciated and felt far better than Craig 'Upper Northwood' just droning on about how unprofessional these amateurs look, and Arlene well being just Arelene.

Sorry seem to have gone on and on a bit but I felt it deserved more than a flippant dismissal or fawing agreement.

Why on earth would another cricketer winning be dire ?? Do you honestly think if Mark were the best dancer left at the end people wont vote for him because a cricketer won last year ??

Also imo Colin was far more consistent than Zoe last year.

the only problem I can see is retired footballers, golfers, rugby players and sundry other sports holding training courses to get the ex stars up to scratch to try to keep cricket down as the dominant force in SCD.

I mean a bit silly when no one moaned that 'another' woman won SCD 2 or 'another' BBC employee won SCD 2.

heck we have had a good spread of winners, a tv presenter, a soap actress and a sportsman AND never the same pro partner, heck it must be getting time that we did see a 'doubling up' winner, unless of course Jimmy Tarbuck EVER stood a chance, which from week 1 he never did.

I did wonder last year if they 'wanted' a male celeb to win - all through the judging they kept re-enforcing the fact that it is tougher on the men because they have to lead ... this year, barely anything said about that!

I think it was also because last year was the first year they had any decent male contenders.

Previous years they were nowhere near the standard of the women.

I liked Aled

People don't always vote for the best dancer. I imagine a great proportion of Mark's fans love him because of the way he looks.

I also think if he is the best dancer week in and week out and starts getting top marks from the judges, it might work against him, and somebody will come from behind and steal it.

Initially maybe yes, however after watching his performances over the past few weeks he is becoming a top contender for his dancing ability too

Yeah he is a very good dancer, do think most of the support for him is his looks though. I think he may well be in the final dont want them to win though, not to keen on Karen

I feel the same about Emma and Darren.

Zoe had some faults that were never marked down by the judges - the "gapping" in ballroom hold that's been mentioned in other threads. Personally I think Colin was more consistent than Zoe.


Definitely.


I think it would be a terrible shame - I want someone to win or not win on dancing, and how much they have captured people's imagination with their improvement. I make no bones about supporting Mark, but I don't want to see him, or anyone, win or lose on whether he is in the same profession as last year's winner. That would be downright stupid.

I agree also that Mark's becoming a contender dancing-wise. Yes, he's goodlooking, but that wouldn't make me, for one, vote for him if he wasn't also producing the goods dancewise.


ROFLMAO


So did I - he wasn't amazing, but boy did he work hard and improve a LOT!
Last edited by sarah-flute : 01-11-2006 at 13:01

I'm inclined to agree with you there, Tissy. I think I might have mentioned this on another thread, but I don't think Zoe did all that bad! She just wasn't consistently strong and sparky to my mind. I really enoyed her tango, but I felt Colin's overall quality, technique and flair seemed just that little bit stronger. He wasn't even one of my favourites, and I still believe that.

Oh, and MindyAnn, I liked Aled a lot, too! His absence from the final was a big disappointment for me.

As for Emma and Darren, I don't even think they're in trouble. Saturday's showdown may have drawn attention (if it was necessary) to the fact that favouritism just for the sake of it does not necessarily give a couple a significant advantage - certainly not with the public - but having said that, I don't personally think she has anything to worry about - unless she has a real arse of an evening this Saturday.

Err...

Help me out here!

All I said with Len, is that he very rarely gives anyone less than five. This I 'spose is a "gentlemanly thing to do." But when some are getting "sixes, sevens and eights" from him, why does he give no one "threes or fours?"
I think it's much the same as the philosophy I always used in business. "Find some small merit in even the worst performance," but by giving all the worst ones, mostly a five is, a bit of a nonsense isn't it?

Totally agree.
The marks are either there to use or not.
There is no shame in getting 3 & 4's - especially at this stage of the show - so long as the marking is consistent.
And it allows for a couple to progress marks wise through the show.

She could have revived her pop career with CIN, so there was no need to do Strictly in a sense. One thing I do have to say is us Emma fans can take the critisms your giving, its just I don't think you've given her a chance, and every celebrity that puts them up for a show like this surely should deserve that, just because some people haven't liked her in the past doesn't mean she should be hated. Just because the judges like her isn't her fault.
Tilly I agree with you about the Mark thing, he's just too quiet, if he livens up I may like him more