When faced with the dilemma of Lost or Torchwood, I chose an early night. 
Torchwood Ratings Thread
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Originally Posted by infiniteloop:
“a cursory glance at the wails from people who can't get Sky on DS demonstrate that downloading is a minority habit”
“a cursory glance at the wails from people who can't get Sky on DS demonstrate that downloading is a minority habit”
Or perhaps it demonstrates that those who download keep quiet about it.
Originally Posted by gyles:
“Or perhaps it demonstrates that those who download keep quiet about it.”
“Or perhaps it demonstrates that those who download keep quiet about it.”
These ratings are pretty misleading so it's not really about downloading. BBC3/Torchwood is available on Freeview, Cable and Sky, Sky One/Lost is only on Sky and Cable so Torchwood has a much larger potential audience. Sky have 8million subs and Freeview has around 7million subscribers. Ultimately Torchwood has almost double the potential audience of Lost and should be expecting to out-perform it each week. 100,000 difference is really small when you take the potential audience numbers into account. Sky will be delighted that Lost has picked up a high percentage of it's own subscriber base.. BBC will be happy but less impressed.
Originally Posted by gyles:
“Or perhaps it demonstrates that those who download keep quiet about it.”
“Or perhaps it demonstrates that those who download keep quiet about it.”
given the popularity of the Lost ABC pace thread, that would seem to be a very false assumption.
Originally Posted by Rooks:
“These ratings are pretty misleading so it's not really about downloading. BBC3/Torchwood is available on Freeview, Cable and Sky, Sky One/Lost is only on Sky and Cable so Torchwood has a much larger potential audience. Sky have 8million subs and Freeview has around 7million subscribers. Ultimately Torchwood has almost double the potential audience of Lost and should be expecting to out-perform it each week. 100,000 difference is really small when you take the potential audience numbers into account. Sky will be delighted that Lost has picked up a high percentage of it's own subscriber base.. BBC will be happy but less impressed.”
“These ratings are pretty misleading so it's not really about downloading. BBC3/Torchwood is available on Freeview, Cable and Sky, Sky One/Lost is only on Sky and Cable so Torchwood has a much larger potential audience. Sky have 8million subs and Freeview has around 7million subscribers. Ultimately Torchwood has almost double the potential audience of Lost and should be expecting to out-perform it each week. 100,000 difference is really small when you take the potential audience numbers into account. Sky will be delighted that Lost has picked up a high percentage of it's own subscriber base.. BBC will be happy but less impressed.”
Also, one should throw into the mix that TW is available on terrestrial telly later in the week, so nobody really has to watch it on a sunday night if they don't want to...
K
Originally Posted by KennyT:
“Also, one should throw into the mix that TW is available on terrestrial telly later in the week, so nobody really has to watch it on a sunday night if they don't want to...
K”
“Also, one should throw into the mix that TW is available on terrestrial telly later in the week, so nobody really has to watch it on a sunday night if they don't want to...
K”
Absolutely and the same can be said of Lost which is repeated a few times during the week too. I'm really just trying to say that Torchwood hasn't really won any battles here as it's expected to outperform Lost due to it's larger potential audience. I think the BBC will still be happy with an audience of around a million for Torchwood and Sky will be delighted with just under a million for Lost.
Originally Posted by KennyT:
“Also, one should throw into the mix that TW is available on terrestrial telly later in the week, so nobody really has to watch it on a sunday night if they don't want to...
K”
“Also, one should throw into the mix that TW is available on terrestrial telly later in the week, so nobody really has to watch it on a sunday night if they don't want to...
K”
The problem is that they're not choosing to watch it on BBC2 later in the week either. Those ratings are also down considerably. And isn't BBC3 terrestrial, just not on analog? My TV picks it up and I don't have a box or pay any subscriptions. It doesn't pick up Sky though, and I would have to pay for it if it did.
I agree fully with a previous post, freeview has a much bigger potential audience and 100,000 is hardly "leaving Lost behind" when there are other shows on at the same time getting 8 million viewers or more.
Last edited by Banjo String : 12-12-2006 at 14:42
Originally Posted by Banjo String:
“The problem is that they're not choosing to watch it on BBC2 later in the week either. Those ratings are also down considerably. And isn't BBC3 terrestrial, just not on analog? ...”
“The problem is that they're not choosing to watch it on BBC2 later in the week either. Those ratings are also down considerably. And isn't BBC3 terrestrial, just not on analog? ...”
True, sorry, used the wrong term! But hopefully you know what I meant. There's an option for 100% of the TV viewing public to watch TW later. Not true for Lost.
You can add the viewings up for all showings if you like:
From most recent available BARB week (they've both dropped in the overnights since, I know)
TW: 4m
Lost: 1.3m - plus whatever the repeats get (BARB doesn't say as it's below the top10), call it about 1.7m total?
So, if SkyOnc, IIRC, is available in about 12m homes (including cable) and BBC2 is available in 25m homes, that still puts TW slightly ahead...
K
Last edited by KennyT : 13-12-2006 at 04:20
Originally Posted by KennyT:
“So, if SkyOnc, IIRC, is available in about 12m homes (including cable) and BBC2 is available in 25m homes, that still puts TW slightly ahead...
K”
“So, if SkyOnc, IIRC, is available in about 12m homes (including cable) and BBC2 is available in 25m homes, that still puts TW slightly ahead...
K”
According to Sky's last investors reports, Sky One is available in 8.8 million homes.
BBC2 ratings for "Random Shoes":
"Torchwood on BBC2 attracted 2.2 million and 10% in the same slot"
G
"Torchwood on BBC2 attracted 2.2 million and 10% in the same slot"
G
Originally Posted by Rooks:
“BBC3/Torchwood is available on Freeview, Cable and Sky, Sky One/Lost is only on Sky and Cable so Torchwood has a much larger potential audience. Sky have 8million subs and Freeview has around 7million subscribers. Ultimately Torchwood has almost double the potential audience of Lost and should be expecting to out-perform it each week. 100,000 difference is really small when you take the potential audience numbers into account.”
“BBC3/Torchwood is available on Freeview, Cable and Sky, Sky One/Lost is only on Sky and Cable so Torchwood has a much larger potential audience. Sky have 8million subs and Freeview has around 7million subscribers. Ultimately Torchwood has almost double the potential audience of Lost and should be expecting to out-perform it each week. 100,000 difference is really small when you take the potential audience numbers into account.”
You need to understand that the subscription figures play no part in the "potential audience" whatsoever because its really unlikely that loads of people are going to tune in and watch them shows.
You also have to consider: Do people even like them shows? Are they going to be around on that time? (its sunday night at 10pm - the best time to get a decent viewing share on that day would be between 7pm - 9pm)
Originally Posted by DanMan01:
“You need to understand that the subscription figures play no part in the "potential audience" whatsoever because its really unlikely that loads of people are going to tune in and watch them shows.
You also have to consider: Do people even like them shows? Are they going to be around on that time? (its sunday night at 10pm - the best time to get a decent viewing share on that day would be between 7pm - 9pm)”
“You need to understand that the subscription figures play no part in the "potential audience" whatsoever because its really unlikely that loads of people are going to tune in and watch them shows.
You also have to consider: Do people even like them shows? Are they going to be around on that time? (its sunday night at 10pm - the best time to get a decent viewing share on that day would be between 7pm - 9pm)”
'Potential audience' in telly-land refers to people who are physically able to receive the show - nothing else.
Originally Posted by DanMan01:
“You need to understand that the subscription figures play no part in the "potential audience" whatsoever because its really unlikely that loads of people are going to tune in and watch them shows.”
“You need to understand that the subscription figures play no part in the "potential audience" whatsoever because its really unlikely that loads of people are going to tune in and watch them shows.”
If programme A has a 'potential audience' of 10m (ie 10m have the ability to watch it) and is viewed by 1m, then it is grabbing 10% of its potential. If programme B has a potential audience of 30m and is viewed by 1.5m, it is only being seen by 5% of its potential, and I would regard it as less successful in relative terms even though it has 50% more viewers. So of course subscription figures are relevant.
Originally Posted by DanMan01:
“You also have to consider: Do people even like them shows?”
“You also have to consider: Do people even like them shows?”
Yes, and the youth of today have word for this issue: 'Duh'.
Originally Posted by DanMan01:
“Are they going to be around on that time? (its sunday night at 10pm - the best time to get a decent viewing share on that day would be between 7pm - 9pm)”
“Are they going to be around on that time? (its sunday night at 10pm - the best time to get a decent viewing share on that day would be between 7pm - 9pm)”
I think the general thrust of this discussion at the moment seems to be about Torchwood v Lost, which are both airing at the same time on the same day.
Originally Posted by Histeria:
“According to Sky's last investors reports, Sky One is available in 8.8 million homes.”
“According to Sky's last investors reports, Sky One is available in 8.8 million homes.”
Does that include cable subscribers? I thought Sky's satellite subscriber base was 8-9m and that there are 3-4m cable subscribers that have access to it. (I may be wrong though, it has been known!)
K
edit: I was basing it on this from wiki
Originally Posted by wiki:
“As of 30 June 2006 Sky had 8,176,000 direct to home customers in the UK and Ireland. However, this figure also includes all those who subscribe to "Sky By Wire" IPTV services such as Homechoice. As of the same date it also had 3,294,000 indirect customers through the cable operators NTL and Telewest in the UK, and a further 604,000 indirect cable customers on NTL Ireland and Chorus in Ireland.”
“As of 30 June 2006 Sky had 8,176,000 direct to home customers in the UK and Ireland. However, this figure also includes all those who subscribe to "Sky By Wire" IPTV services such as Homechoice. As of the same date it also had 3,294,000 indirect customers through the cable operators NTL and Telewest in the UK, and a further 604,000 indirect cable customers on NTL Ireland and Chorus in Ireland.”
However, my assumption is that all direct customers and most of the cable customers get SkyOnc. I don't know how that fits in with the Sky 'pack' layout though...
Last edited by KennyT : 14-12-2006 at 17:16
Originally Posted by KennyT:
“Does that include cable subscribers? I thought Sky's satellite subscriber base was 8-9m and that there are 3-4m cable subscribers that have access to it. (I may be wrong though, it has been known!)”
“Does that include cable subscribers? I thought Sky's satellite subscriber base was 8-9m and that there are 3-4m cable subscribers that have access to it. (I may be wrong though, it has been known!)”
Thats about right, give or take. Freeview box sales now stand at over 12million though some of those may be replacement boxes and the like.
Long story short, Sky One has potentially 12 million viewers and BBC Three has potentially 24 million viewers making the potential audience for Torchwood double that of Lost.
It's difficult to deny that 2.4 Million for the first week of Torchwood was impressive and had the figure stayed at even half that value then the BBC would have been jumping for joy. 850,000 is still good numbers for a digital channel but I suspect the BBC expected it to keep above the 1million mark.
Originally Posted by Rooks:
“Thats about right, give or take. Freeview box sales now stand at over 12million though some of those may be replacement boxes and the like.
Long story short, Sky One has potentially 12 million viewers and BBC Three has potentially 24 million viewers making the potential audience for Torchwood double that of Lost.
It's difficult to deny that 2.4 Million for the first week of Torchwood was impressive and had the figure stayed at even half that value then the BBC would have been jumping for joy. 850,000 is still good numbers for a digital channel but I suspect the BBC expected it to keep above the 1million mark.”
“Thats about right, give or take. Freeview box sales now stand at over 12million though some of those may be replacement boxes and the like.
Long story short, Sky One has potentially 12 million viewers and BBC Three has potentially 24 million viewers making the potential audience for Torchwood double that of Lost.
It's difficult to deny that 2.4 Million for the first week of Torchwood was impressive and had the figure stayed at even half that value then the BBC would have been jumping for joy. 850,000 is still good numbers for a digital channel but I suspect the BBC expected it to keep above the 1million mark.”
Did you mean BBC2 and households?
K
Originally Posted by KennyT:
“Did you mean BBC2 and households?
K”
“Did you mean BBC2 and households?
K”
I think the BBC3 was correct (it's a free digi channel, so has a much higher potential audience than the subscription only Sky One), and he meant viewers in the same respect as you meant households - ie. Number of TVs* getting the show.
Could be wrong, mind.
(*Yes, I know there can be more than one TV in a house. You get the point)
Last edited by Histeria : 14-12-2006 at 22:07
Originally Posted by cobaltmale:
“BBC2 ratings for "Random Shoes":
"Torchwood on BBC2 attracted 2.2 million and 10% in the same slot"
G”
“BBC2 ratings for "Random Shoes":
"Torchwood on BBC2 attracted 2.2 million and 10% in the same slot"
G”
It looks as though Torchwood has found its natural audience level, which is just slightly under a million on BBC3 and just over 2 million on BBC2. I don't think anyone at the BBC is going to be disappointed with those numbers.
Originally Posted by Mickey S:
“It looks as though Torchwood has found its natural audience level, which is just slightly under a million on BBC3 and just over 2 million on BBC2. I don't think anyone at the BBC is going to be disappointed with those numbers.”
“It looks as though Torchwood has found its natural audience level, which is just slightly under a million on BBC3 and just over 2 million on BBC2. I don't think anyone at the BBC is going to be disappointed with those numbers.”
Well going by what has been said in previous discussions I've read on DS, anything under 10% audience share on terrestrial TV is considered to be pretty poor.
So I realy don't know why some people seem to get so excited and keep saying "Excellent" at ratings figures that are pretty average for BBC2.
I don't know what's supposed to be so amazing at getting just over 2 million on BBC2.
As far as BBC2 ratings go I simply see it as just surviving over the safety threshold.
Don't popular BBC2 shows get much better ratings than this usually?
I mean come on.....2 million and some people (especially over on OG) are practically having orgasms over this figure.
I just see it as simply surviving.
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“Well going by what has been said in previous discussions I've read on DS, anything under 10% audience share on terrestrial TV is considered to be pretty poor.
So I realy don't know why some people seem to get so excited and keep saying "Excellent" at ratings figures that are pretty average for BBC2.
I don't know what's supposed to be so amazing at getting just over 2 million on BBC2.
As far as BBC2 ratings go I simply see it as just surviving over the safety threshold.
Don't popular BBC2 shows get much better ratings than this usually?
I mean come on.....2 million and some people (especially over on OG) are practically having orgasms over this figure.
I just see it as simply surviving.”
“Well going by what has been said in previous discussions I've read on DS, anything under 10% audience share on terrestrial TV is considered to be pretty poor.
So I realy don't know why some people seem to get so excited and keep saying "Excellent" at ratings figures that are pretty average for BBC2.
I don't know what's supposed to be so amazing at getting just over 2 million on BBC2.
As far as BBC2 ratings go I simply see it as just surviving over the safety threshold.
Don't popular BBC2 shows get much better ratings than this usually?
I mean come on.....2 million and some people (especially over on OG) are practically having orgasms over this figure.
I just see it as simply surviving.”
The're good ratings when you consider that the episodes are aired twice on bbc3 before even debuting on bbc2,and excellent when you consider an large proportion of the target audience will be more likely to have digital tv.2.2 million is an pretty decent showing for bbc2 when you consider that bbc2s biggest hits like coast,extras,wild with bill oddie and catherine tate average around 3.5m and the next most popular shows are aired in daytime ie the weakest link[2.5m] and strictly come dancing -it takes two[2.5m].
The apprentice last year was a big hit for bbc2 and averaged around 4.1m but if episodes were aired on bbc3 like torchwood you could expect at least 1.5m off that average.The csi franchise is considered an big hit on five and it gets similar ratings to torchwood.
Originally Posted by DanMan01:
“You need to understand that the subscription figures play no part in the "potential audience" whatsoever because its really unlikely that loads of people are going to tune in and watch them shows.
You also have to consider: Do people even like them shows? Are they going to be around on that time? (its sunday night at 10pm - the best time to get a decent viewing share on that day would be between 7pm - 9pm)”
“You need to understand that the subscription figures play no part in the "potential audience" whatsoever because its really unlikely that loads of people are going to tune in and watch them shows.
You also have to consider: Do people even like them shows? Are they going to be around on that time? (its sunday night at 10pm - the best time to get a decent viewing share on that day would be between 7pm - 9pm)”
Yes but the bbc get told by ofcom they cannot broadcast anything likely to be considered at or around bbfc 18 cert level before 10pm, and I'd guess most of torchwood is (Well OK the first 5 eps are all bbfc 15s but you get the point. Except the ghost machine which is a 12)
Originally Posted by Histeria:
“I think the BBC3 was correct (it's a free digi channel, so has a much higher potential audience than the subscription only Sky One), and he meant viewers in the same respect as you meant households - ie. Number of TVs* getting the show.
Could be wrong, mind.
(*Yes, I know there can be more than one TV in a house. You get the point)”
“I think the BBC3 was correct (it's a free digi channel, so has a much higher potential audience than the subscription only Sky One), and he meant viewers in the same respect as you meant households - ie. Number of TVs* getting the show.
Could be wrong, mind.
(*Yes, I know there can be more than one TV in a house. You get the point)”
Well, we may be mixing eggs and apples here, but according to BARB, there are about 25m TV homes in total of which 16m are "digital" (and 12m are Sky/cable homes.)
http://www.barb.co.uk/tvfacts.cfm?fu...p&flag=tvfacts
So, Lost's potential audience is 12m homes, TWs BBC3 audience is 16m homes and TWs total audience is 25m homes.
Lost's total viewing figures are about 1.3-1.7m (equivalent to about 3m if it was available nationally like TW)
TW's total viewing figures are about 4m
K
Last edited by KennyT : 15-12-2006 at 04:55
My eyes are glazing over at this argument. Can someone remind me of what you're trying to prove/disprove? Does any of it matter?
Doesn't really matter I suppose, but someone asked whether TW was performing better than Lost.
However, do any posts or threads 'really' matter!
K
However, do any posts or threads 'really' matter!
K
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