I meant to say HER back!

I just wondered if maybe she's got scholyosis or something .

She does walk with a bit of a hunch, doesn't she

Just out of interest, Gritty, what do you judge and how is accountability assessed?

I was wondering about if they scored like ice dancing is scored, with scores for technical stuff and a seperate score for interpretation. Might be interesting. But then again the show would go on forever!

Well, if we just stuck to the scoring and cut the judges comments/waffle/argueing down by half, it should still fit in the time slot ... <winky smilie>

LOL! Although I wouldn't be suprised if Bruno and Craig were!

Hit the wrong button and lost my post. Glad really 'cos it got a bit technical. I judge dressage horses and riders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6sKP9fHAd8 (OK this does deserve a 10). At this level there are 5 judges.

In freestyle they ride a test and complete lets say about 12 different movements (simply walk, trot, canter). For each movement they are scored out of 10. Here is our official interpretation.
10 Excellent 9 very good 8 good 7 fairly good 6 satisfactory 5 sufficnt 4 insufficient 3 fairly bad 2 bad 0 not executed.

Finally we have overall impression marks (which are weighted) but there should be a strong relationship between the average movement score and the collectives. Dressage riders are given my sheet at the end of the competition with my comments.

Bet the dance community have something similar. I would give the professionals a sheet of moves I would expect to see that are appropriate for the level of competition. They would then be scored out of 10 (as per above). I would then have a performance score (10x4) and a level of difficulty score (10x2).

The viewing public would not have to see all this, all we would hear is their thought-process as they concluded.
Last edited by gritty : 02-11-2006 at 13:30

That's quite amazing control.

Sorry for the continuing OT, but I must ask - is it a learned routine, or is the horse responding to commands, or is it a little of each (ie the routine has been practised a lot but the horse is responding to what the rider is doing)?

Just nosey

Thanks Gritty, thats an excellent and informative post.

I bet you're right that they do have something similar in the dance comps (any dancers out there able to confirm this?) as whilst SCD is primarily light entertainment for charity purposes I would imagine that in the seriously competitive comp circuit you couldn't have four random opinions (three of which from "unqualified" observers!)

Are there degrees of difficulty in a routine too, like in gymnastics, where the total marks possible for a routine can vary according to difficulty?

Gosh, absolutely not a learned routine. The horse has to work to the individual commands of the rider (anticipation is a fault).

But this is the Olympic champion riding an olympic horse and winning. That's talent riding natural ability at world level.

But honestly the principle is the same when I'm presented with a 12yr old girl on her lovely native pony. Does she do the movements? how well are they executed? Is she riding well and influencing her horse well. Is it a well presented routine, does the music fit the partnership/gait of the horse ........

better get back OT.

Wow... I'd be impressed even if it was somewhat "practised in"

Anyway, yes, back on topic

I agree with all the comments on the judging, but as far as the music goes..the couples choose it so we can't blame the judges for that..I remember last year Craig saying to Colin&Erin that he thought Thriller was a very strange choice but that it worked..that said..it's rare for me to know what is and isn't suitable music for SCD and I've always thought the judges would say if something was totally wrong..but then I used to trust the judges!

Without being rude, I always thought that Louisa was deformed in some way before she even joined SCD. Or is it just that she is just so under-sized? No offence meant here.

Thank you or the intresting information

Thanks for all your interest - its my passion but I want to abide by forum rules and keep on-topic. But I just don't have it in me to be rude, so I'll answer this question but any more will have to relate to dance (where I am most definitely not an informed poster).

Yes, there are degrees of difficulty (about 9 levels off the top of my head)
Each level increases the difficulty by
- the shapes and sizes of the movement required - harder to do a 10 mtr. circle than a 20 mtr circle.
- asking the horse to move laterally (sideways)
- asking the rider to show different expressions of a movement (the very controlled collected trot through to the very expressive extended trot, for example).
- at each level you require to see more correct training through controlled muscle development which allows the horse to be more engaged and produce the harder movements

Just like dancers you nurture their development, stretch and develop their muscle power and control. A young girl may be able to get her leg over her head, but that's not the same as a dancer doing it in a controlled way, moving from one position to another.

Getting back on-topic at a recent competition, we chatted about the professional dancers on SCD in the same way as we would our better riders. Not sure I like where this is going so I think I'll bow out now
Last edited by gritty : 02-11-2006 at 17:04

Definitely agree. Even other half who usually has no interest in it was puzzled by some of the choices for the dances

Oh, right, when you say that S.C.D. is not about technicalities you presumably mean correct footwork. For your information, correct footwork is the absolute fundamental basic of ballroom and latin dancing - that's why the BBC have engaged the professionals to teach it! If the footwork is all wrong then ALL the judges should reflect this in their scores. If some of the judges award points for dancers grinning like a Cheshire cat then they are losing the plot.
As for the music needing to be different, any dancer will tell you that there are many hundreds of different tunes suitable for each and every dance - so there need be no 'sameness' as you infer. And why on earth should 'technically correct dancing' mean dull performances? A visit to any professional dance competition will soon prove otherwise.
Yes, the audience may not consist of 'dancing anoraks'
as you so sweetly call them but I think that most would agree that in any dancing competition the correctness of the fundamentals is of paramount importance.

Dancin' Doc.
Last edited by blomes : 02-11-2006 at 20:08

I agreed with this point that Brendan made, but doesn't it seem a bit odd, coming from Brendan, with his penchant for crowd-pleasing illegal lifts? He was marked down for it, of course, which is maybe why he made the point, but it just made me smile to hear him arguing in favour of rules!

Brendan may do illegal lifts, but when he is teaching he makes sure EVERY ASPECT IS TECHNICALLY PERFECT!!!!!

Thats an idea!!

why this week dont we score the judges!! on consitancy! meanness, and if they can add CONTRUCTIVE CRITISM TO THE CONTESTANTS!

No, he doesn't. Claire's kicks in the week 3 jive were nowhere near technically perfect.

Doesnt mean claire can do that jsut as a professional!

and having arthiritis doesnt help either¬

But your point was that Brendan ensures he has taught until every step is technically perfect. Her kicks were not technically perfect, she just didn't do them right at all.

They were not technically wrong, just not high enough. In this case, it is a matter of accepting what is physically possible

Musicangel is probably right. The professionals, including Brendan, may well have taught the steps correctly but if the celebrity does not do them right on the night there's not much the professionals can do about it. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink!

Dancin' Doc.