Okay - I never thought it would come to this!

I would just like to make a point and say that for all his faults Craig is not pervy (unlike Arlene!), marks fairly (unlike Arlene!) and behaves like a grown up (unlike Jan!)

He was in the right on Saturday and if Jan would ever like to try it, she would find the moral high ground a beautiful place to be!!!!


Jan thought she would get the publics support if she was horrible to Craig - but she didn't! WE VOTED YOU OUT!

I don't think Jan is an idiot - I think she was overcome by what she quite reasonably saw as an inconsistency in marking.

I think Craig was wrong on this one, much though I love him.

Jan went down in my estimation on Saturday. She acted like a spoilt child. I've never been Craig's biggest fan but he's growing on me and also came across well in the interview this morning. Jan, on the other hand, lost all dignity when she started spouting "I hope you're satisfied!" or whatever it was. Fair enough she had a point with the personal best thing, but afterwards she went over the top.
Last edited by Nausikaa : 05-11-2006 at 19:29

I do happen to think that Craig was in the right on Saturday - if he could give half marks then I am sure he would.

Plus he came over as a nice guy on that bbc2 programme this morning!
Last edited by FionaH : 05-11-2006 at 19:32

No we didn't. We don't vote anyone out. We vote people in.

Honestly this is just stupid - it's like playground stuff and totally unnecessary. Jan isn't the horrible meany having a pick on Craig. She was a human being in a highly emotional situation. She said something in an emotional state but so what?

I'm more than sure it's no skin off of Craig's nose so what's the need for this smug post?

Craig has always been the judge i've respected most. He has his faults (such as overmarking Emma in the foxtrot) but generally his marking is consistent plus he isn't afraid to look like 'the bad guy' and give out the 3's and 4's that are needed for bad dances.

Plus Jan's arguement was just a tad redundant. Yes marks should show if the competitors have improved or got worse but they also need to be marked against the other couples. Len I feel marks someone high if they improve but that means he often ends up giving an 'ok-ish performance' better marks than a good performance.. just because the couple who did an ok-ish performance improved a lot. I much prefer Craig's way of marking.

Why did she just pick on Craig what about the other 3 judges oh and Anton lovers and of course not forgetting 8 million viewers. I have always liked Craig and his opinion is always consistant and lets be honest he likes Emma but gave higher scorse to better dancers yesterday and that is consitant.

Yes, Craig tries to be fair I think.
Jan was obviously upset and overeacted. Its a shame her and Anton are gone but thats the name of the game.

It just goes to show the amount of physical and emotional energy that the celebs put in every week.

To practice for scores of hours a week to do a 90 second dance and then get it ripped apart must be galling.

I get p*ssed off if I can't get a four move sequence right in a lesson or have a bad dance that makes the woman feel like a bag of spuds so I have no idea what it must feel like for the celebs who try their best.

To put in so much work for it to be dismissed in a few pithy words must not feel nice.

However I do like Craigs honest appraisals but the way in which he makes cutting remarks is the spoiler. I would say the Beeb have something to do with that and it is part of the dynamics they want on the judging panel.

Craigs cutting comments are there for the same reason as the 'crappy' camera work: to hook people into the show and get them talking. The Beeb must be lvoing all this passion and emotion - let's hope it does not back fire on them.

The Sun headlines today "Raven's Mad"

Jan's husband Max Hole confronted Craig in the bar
following Saturday’s live show and screamed: “Get away from my wife — keep away from my family!”

Craig revealed he was also pushed several times in a “physical attack”.


I like Craig, and hope he will prosecute the A Hole

As I said on another thread I am sure Jan was disappointed after going out on a personal best. Even more so if you know that you feel it inside it was your best.

HOWEVER so did Georgina in this series and James Martin and Bill T in the last series.

Jan should have taken a leaf out of Ballroom Bill's book of how to exit with dignity and on a high. Remember how he took catty Arlene for a twirl around the floor

Jan should have learned by now to be gracious in defeat and not to act like a petulant teenager. Craig is not entirely to blame WE voted her out not him. Being perfectly frank she should have gone before now anyway!

I like Craig! He gets the worst press but he seems like a lovely guy (most of the time!!) and is actually a fair judge.

If Jan was so concerned that the worst performance on the night should be the one to leave, she should have cleared off two weeks ago after her embarrassing 'jive', and we could all have been watching Spoony instead. Go Craig!

Outbreak of reality here please!!!

Jan's point was that if she had performed much better than last week (and specifically been praised by Craig for it) why did he award her the exact same mark as he gave for the performance he slated last week? I happen to agree with her on that one. If he had given her 1 more point (to reflect his praise), then she and Anton would have been above Matt and Lilia in the judging rather than joint 3 points each (J&A would have had 3 M&L would have had 2).

However - mathematically that would have then put Matt and Lilia and Jan and Anton in the bottom 2 with Claire and Brendan being automatically saved (on the basis that for B&C to beat J&A they had to have got the 3rd lowest public vote)

ergo the bottom of the leader board MUST have looked like

Matt & Lilia - judges =3 + public 2 = 5
Jan & Anton - judges =3 + public 1= 4
Claire & Brendan - judges 1 + public 3 = 4

as Brendan & Claire scored higher with the public they went through despite the same overall score

Had Jan got her extra mark which she felt she warranted from Craig it would have been

Jan & Anton - judges 3 + public 1= 4
Matt & Lilia - judges 2 + public 2 = 4
Claire & Brendan - judges 1 + public 3 = 4

Which on the basis of the public vote would have taken C&B safely through - and with M&L and J&A in the bottom two, Jan would still have gone on the basis of the lower public vote.

Either way Jan would have gone - but her pride wouldn't have been so dented......

Will agree that her hubby was out of order though!

And Matt and Lilia need to watch out next week!
Last edited by CaroUK : 06-11-2006 at 09:50

I honestly think Jan must have got Craig mixed up with Len (who let's face it has a proven track recored of rewarding mediocrity with high marks). I really cannot think of any other explanation. It WAS her personal best but still the weakest performance on the night


Secondly this woman makes her living from satirising others (Not least she took the mickey out of Carol Smillie's toothy grin, Lesley's Garrett's large...ahem....breasts and Anne Robinson's wonky grin to name only three of her targets). It seems she can dish it out but not take it.

Thirdly it seems she is arguing that by Craig not giving her higher marks she went out....HELLO you were in the last 2 last week and you didn't complain when Georgina went out altho she gave her best performance....at the very least your support was ebbing


As much as I've enjoyed her sketches in the past if there is another series of Dead Ringers I really don't think I'll be able to enjoy her impressions quite as much ever again

Has anyone got a clip of Jan's outburst?

I have a really good idea.

Get Fiona Bruce to do a parody of Jan Ravens in SCD for Children in Need

Mind you was it not Fiona Bruce who stromed off after being booted out of "Just the Two of us" or am I thinking of somebody else

I wouldn't dream of speaking for Craig as he can do thast quite eloquently for himself. But I think he had to compare her V.Waltz against the others....and I guess he thought it deserved a 5 irrespective of improvement. I actually thought his harshest mark was the 6 he gave to Louisa. I thought it was a solid 7 bordering on 8

I thought her outburst "I hope you're happy now" really let her down. I really liked her at first, but that was way over the top. I understand she's upset, but she couldn't have thought she'd be in it forever, and let's face it, she'd been mediocre at best the past few weeks.

How could that work? Whoever came out first would have no one for their dance to be compared to.
And surely the marks given should be for the dance itself, not how well it stacks up against another couple doing the same dance?

Givn that Craig said it was her best performance, it should have earned her best mark from him. Did it? No. He didn't have to say it was her best performance, but he did, and perhaps that he was just being kind. So I can see where she was soming from, with her actual complaint, but to say it in the manner she did just made her look very silly, I thought.

No I don't remember Fiona storming off ''Just the two of us'', unless I didn't hear about it, but yes, Fiona doing a parody of Jan would be excellent. At least it'd be a way of Fiona getting her own back for all the years that Jan has been taking the micky out of her.

I think it was fair that Jan was voted out of the competition.
And sure her behavior was a bit childish at the end when she said to the judges:" I hope you got what you wanted"
But I think it all started when the judges were much too harsh about her performance and also about other performances. I mean those celebrities practise all week. Why do the judges have to be so mean to them? They can say that it was not all too good, but in the first 4 episodes some of them were so harsh and I don't understand that. You saw the fear on the faces of the celebrities and the professional dancers whenever it was Graig's turn to say what he thought of it. I think that is not good. It is an entertainment show, not the world championship. So why be so hard in your words?
I love the judges not thinking alike. That gives something extra to the show. But you can exaggerate that and I think that was the case. I also think that Graig tries to be a little more harsh now than before.
And I also think that it is not good that some judges do have their favorites. That is not fair and certainly not professional!
I also think that Brendan was right. I mean one week the judges say this about him, the next week they say something else. And then the remark of Arlene and Len that he should keep his mouth shut. What kind of a remark is that? We don't live in the middle ages anymore. Everybody is entitled to say what he want. When you give such harsh critics like the judges do, you can expect to get something back from the contestants!
We had a show like this also here in the Netherlands, but there is no way that our judges would be so harsh to the celebrities. The public wouldnot like that at all. I understand that the UK is another public, but I think nobody likes it to be treated like this, when you have practised so hard week in week out. A bit more kindness and consideration would be much more appreciated by the contestants!

Johanna
Last edited by johanna54 : 06-11-2006 at 10:36

I don't think she would do that, unless she had a bodyguard on hand, just in case Mr Hole caught up with her.

Can we just remember that Craig has said he wishes he could give half points to people!!!!

Therefore it was her personal best - but didn't deserve a WHOLE mark more!