Following the ludicrous music (Eleanor Rigby etc) used for the Ballroom Tango there was even more unsuitable and ponderous music used for most of the Viennese Waltzes.
No-one appeared to perform the dance at the standard competition tempo and thousands of ballroom-dance teachers must be shaking their heads in disbelief. The programme urgently needs some judges with a realistic and PRACTICAL knowledge of ballroom dancing. Otherwise, people new to the ballroom dancing world will eventually discover that the programme is very often peddling a misleading myth!

Watching an ITT programme last week it appears the pro's pick their own choices of music.. I don't know why but they all seem very reluctant to pick any authentic music with its beats, tempo and rhythms. Not one of them had a lovely traditional Viennese waltz.

Maybe the choice of music should be picked for them by independent pro's.

It's obvious.... they're merely trying to attract a generation that thinks nothing of phoning/texting/e-mailing a million times for something that they like..... unlike the average Joe who will pick up the phone and vote once for who they thought were the best couple.

That was a typical example of BBC "Spin"
There's been a lot of comment about "the wrong music" being used so it was conveniently "dismissed" on SCDT2.
If you think back they showed several clips of excellent choices of music.
Darren confirmed that they had been chosen by the professionals/celebrities. They didn't show Eleanor Rigby So no one had to "own up" to that. Nor did they show any other "duff" music, so "no lies were told" were they?

I'm certain the producers impose some what they consider to be more "mainstream" music to appeal to a wider audience. Ian Waite I'm told, said so last year. The pros wouldn't dare complain as they would not be invited back the following year.

I wish the BBC didn't think we're all as daft as their perceived "target audience."

Well I thought dancing a paso doble to the mission impossible theme tune was pretty bad but it showed Erin apparently thinking it was a great choice.

Quite an apt song actually when you look at his Paso doble


Only kidding, I think he`s lovely

Well at least the song made it memorable

But even if the professionals are reluctant to complain about some of the music imposed upon them by the trendy BBC suits one would think that the judges would pick up on this straight away. It's a fact that, at any normal dance competition, a great deal of this music would be laughed off the floor. The conclusion is that the judges, too, do not wish to bite the hand that feeds them or, more likely, they have no idea what the right music and tempo should be for each dance they are supposed to comment on!

Dancin' Doc.

I don't believe they don't know the right music and tempo, yes they may not be all experts in the ballroom/latin field but they have got to have some basic knowledge of it to do their job, and what the right tempo is for a dance is very basic knowledge. I think scd is a nice little earner for the pros and the judges, so they don't want to rock the boat, why else would they put up with bon jovi for a paso?

I wonder (I don't know) if this was partly to make it more manageable for the celebs.

Some of the choices of music do seem really strange, and the tempos do seem to vary considerably too. But the pros do say they choose it, so that must be right.
Last edited by Dancingles : 05-11-2006 at 23:48

Seems an obvious conclusion.

The practice sessions seem to be done without music, or what I've seen. I know nothing about dance practice, but as I'm "musically inclined" I'd say they could be using a digital metronome to regulate the cadence of the dances.

They could increase the tempo until the pro is happy with it and then the bms reading given to the musical director who will ensure the band plays their tune at the same bms rate.

I've mentioned earlier when a pop singer on SCDT2 criticised the pace of some recordings of tunes Claudia told them had been selected, that of course these would not necessary be danced at that tempo.
You sure get a few "dance dumbo's" on that programme.

Not necessarily in every case, see message #4 re Ian Waite's remarks last year.

Hi!
I'm not a dancer ... I struggle to move in a co-ordinated fashion at the best of times never mind to music!

I agree - some of the choices have been dodgy at best and not seemed to suit the dances. When I think of the Tango, I don't automatically think of Abba, nor do I think Evanesence = Paso music. If the music matches the dance the couple should use it, whether its Madonna or the Proclaimers or a traditional V.Waltz piece. But I think there have been some good choices that I've gone and bought a music download and put on my MP3 player.

However, SCD is not a proper professional dance competiton - it is a TV show. Therefore the need to use traditional music is not as prevalent. Maybe the rules are relaxed a bit.

Prior to SCD, ballroom dancing came over as a bit superior, a bit elitist - so perhaps they want to show the audience it is not, it can be fun and enjoyable and maybe encourage more people to take up some form of dance.

Also, using different styles of music perhaps allows the pros to try something new. I agree with sarah - perhaps using familiar music makes the celeb's understanding of the routine easier. Also, familiar songs, old faves etc... they get the audience on side.

I think to say the BBC force them to use certain songs is perhaps a bit off the mark - I did read in the SCD Book that they can only use certain songs because of copyright - that may contribute to what songs they can use.
Also, some pros might want the celebs to feel they're contributing and let them choose the song.
Just a few thoughts.
x.

I don't think there's a problem with copyright, that's a nonsense of an excuse and a handy convenience if the BBC make it.
There are hundreds of thousands of ballroom dance tunes available.
Victor Sylvester had a weekly radio programme on the BBC for donkey's years where he played specific ballroom tunes in response to requests from all over the world. Never any problems there.

The classic tunes by all the well known songwriters of shows and films from the thirties to the sixties still popular with dancers today could never be called "elitist."
So how do the dancers make it so?

However I do think a lot of young people are ignorant of many classic "dance" tunes yet older people know the better ones of the younger generation's.

I recently told a "musician's" joke in a mixed company of ages which required knowing the music to the "middle eight" of "Over the rainbow." Only one person out of half a dozen under 35 years of age "got it."

Sad that really, isn't it?

Anyway, because a tune is "more contemporay" it doesn't automatically make it a good dance tune. Some of the selections have proved that.
Last edited by Doghouse Riley : 06-11-2006 at 01:38

I understand that they may want to use modern music to attract a wider audience, but they should still have the correct tempo (is that the right word?). And they could always use different arrangements to make them fit - for the example the version of Roxanne from Moulin Rouge which is arranged for the tango, and has been used in previous series of SCD. Maybe they need a new Musical Director who is capable of doing this!?

That way everybody is happy, the music would fit the dance but still appeal to a wider audience, although if that is the reason they do this I think the BBC underestimates it's audience. I'm sure the music choices were more appropriate in the 1st series (or maybe that's my memory playing tricks!) and the viewing figures were good enough for them to immediately recommission another series, so why change?
Last edited by glitterfairy11 : 06-11-2006 at 01:39

Two observations there.

I'd say the standard of performance by the amateurs has improved dramatically over the four years.
Unfortunately, so has the BBC's ratings seeking content nonsense thrust upon the programme.

from what I have been told ( from a friend who has lessons with Ian and was present when he was talking to the BBC on phone about music choice) the dancers give a list to the BBC to look at. The Beeb then tell them what is ok and whaat is not. It tured out thaat last year ost of what Ian picked was No No'd by the beeb and then they told him what to dance to.

I have to say I think the music has been pretty awful this year. Every week I am struggling to here the tempo of the dance in various routines and failing abysmally.

Yes the pro's pick the music, but I wonder how much of it is influenced by what the BBC clipboard clutchers tell. I can see the pros wanting to use more traditional music, for no other reason than to help the celebs develope the rythm of the dances, but what happens when some no mark researcher says it's all very well using Strauss for a waltz, but have you thought of AC/DC or the theme from the X-Files instead?

Some might claim it is a dumming down of SCD, trying to 'popularise' ballroom dancing, but to me it sucks.

Hamlet, you have probably hit the nail on the head. It seems inconceivable that professional dancers would choose some of this hideous music to dance to, regardless of what the BBC tells us. The dumbest dance teacher will confirm that it's easier to teach a pupil when the pupil can hear a clear beat and tempo. The BBC may think they are fooling the general public but they are not fooling even the most amateur of ballroom dancers. As mentioned before, it's just as easy to get it right as wrong, but the suits who make the final decision have probably never danced a step in their short lives.

Dancin' Doc.
Last edited by blomes : 06-11-2006 at 09:29

If they're choosing the music to appeal to a wider audience (by which I assume is meant youngsters) then I think they've got it wrong. I remember with the first series how amazed everyone was that youngsters were actually watching and enjoying ballroom dancing, and thousands of people who had never thought of it before were signing up for dancing classes. The same people who discovered ballroom dancing could be fun, are also capable of discovering ballroom dancing music can be fun - they go together after all, and they won't win anyone over by trying to change it into a pop event.

The BBC seems to have an ongoing inability to understand what young people like. Thinking back many, many years to when I was very young, we used to cringe at it's attempts to appeal to us by playing orchestrated versions of our favourite hits of the moment. When you are very young it's more often than not the performer(s) that play the music you are interested in as much as the music itself. When you get older you don't mind someone other than Judy Garland singing Over the Rainbow if they sing it well. When you are young you do. So they'll be losing out on both counts here by using music that does not go with the dances and also does not appeal to a wider audience.
Last edited by rita1 : 06-11-2006 at 09:55

Yes I’m sure the professionals choose the music, but considering how dire has been some, I’d say on occasions it’s been “Hobson’s choice.”

This business of "undue influence" by the BBC seems to escape many people on here.

What you see and hear on SCD and SCDT2 is exactly what the BBC want you to see and hear, apart from the "live action."

As I've said on an earlier thread, the producers chose the "worst" comment on Lousia and the "best" on Emma made by the four judges, to "help the viewers decide" before the votes closed in the "Results programme."


The producers of both programmes will have endless amounts of comment and training footage at their disposal taken over any number of weeks "with which to muck about" to project whichever perception of what's gone on they want the public to experience. I'm sure all the celebrities "throw a strop" sometimes, however I wonder if the most widely reported one last week will be shown on SCDT2 tonight?

We've done the "dodgy music." It came up on SCDT2.
Well actually the BBC haven't, they showed just the "good stuff."

If Claudia wasn't working to anything other than script which tells her what and what not to ask, why didn't she bring up "Eleanor Rigby" and ask Darren who chose that?
Because she was likely told to avoid that question.

The professional dancers do and say exactly what they are told to by the production department. Even Brendan falls in to line when push might come to shove. This programme is a "nice little earner" for all of them and no way would they jeopardise the possibility of coming back again next year.

Now before someone accuses me of being "paranoid" again. All I'm saying is “take everything with a pinch of salt."

When it comes to contentious issues, the BBC are "past masters" of obfuscation and "spin."
Last edited by Doghouse Riley : 06-11-2006 at 15:32

To be totally honest I'm rather inclinded to watch it in mute this series...

I loved all the music last series (my favs being Bills Viennese Waltz and James Paso)... This series the music has a lot less passion or relavance to the chosen dances...

Being a professional musician I can truley say its awful, and there is a lot of music out there, even by new fresh bands that would suit the dances better... All you have to do is look at some of the Italian guitarests annd you'd have some really good Tango music...

I'm also ashamed to say I actually didn't mind the Evenascence Paso... I hate the band by the way but if they had modified it a bit it wouldn't have been that bad...

I think they should work with professionals on getting whatever music they want to use properly modified so it at least suits the dance other then just randomly changing the tempo or dancing slower/faster...

I don't even want to know how they'll mess up the American Smooth, I loved the music last year and if it is as dire as the other music choices I'll be very disappointed...

I have to say I agree with everyone about this. I have hated much of the music on this year's show ('Hot hot hot' was a great choice but then I might have been momentarily blinded by the dance ... !! That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it! )

When I'm watching a quickstep or a Viennese Waltz, I do not want to hear some dreadful song which seems to be in completely the wrong tempo. I want to hear the music to which these dances should be performed.

And ... yep, I have to say that I, too, think the BBC is culpable in this. I can definitely envisage situations where they would give very limited or no choice whatsoever to the pros in the music. All to try and wean the 'younger' viewer. Personally, I'm absolutely sick of being disregarded by TV companies. Their demographic doesn't include me or any of my friends or colleagues because we're too old. Apparently, we're not the 'buying' public (oh yeah?) and we don't matter.

Ooh - sounds like I'm a tad irritated. (Okay - calm. Breathe ... )

I have also been very alarmed by what seems to be a continual poor choice of music for this series.

Particularly in the case of the ballroom dances, the tempo has been totally wrong and has spoiled the dramatic intensity of the dances.